WWYD: Efren vs. SVB

tylerdurden

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Ala one of Piggybank's picks.....for what efren may do... probably aim the bank at the 2 balls by his hole and not for the pocket. Big pocket for the scratch, but sometimes players feel they have to take a chance.
 

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gulfportdoc

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Efren may have shot the 4-5 combo, as Dennis suggested. He could also 2-rail the 10, following the CB off the head rail to the side cushion north of the 9 ball, blocking the one ball. If Efren missed pocketing the 10, the 10 would end up where SVB would have to protect against Efren shooting it.

I'd probably lag the CB to the 1 ball with a little right spin, trying to make it . It's a big ball being near the corner, so the likelihood of hitting it is high. The 3-rail lag may not be on.

Otherwise I'd try John's shot-- rolling the CB off the right side of the 10, trying to lay the CB on the side rail.

Doc
 

One Pocket Ghost

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With all due respect to John and Doc...imo, no way can lagging off the side of the 10 be a very successful choice here - you'd be pretty much waving the white flag and leaving laser-shooting Shane the fairly easy, free 13-1 combination to shoot.

If I wasn't going to kick the 1ball in, my second choice would be a power-safety (and let the record show that I just coined that term :heh) that hasn't been mentioned yet...

I would kick off of Efren'e long rail at medium-hard speed at the 11 ball (a very simple kick angle) - having the 11 slam into the 1ball, with a very decent chance of removing both balls or having the 11 carom into the pocket, and the 1ball leaving the area.

- Ghost
 

wincardona

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I can't imagine Efren doing anything but pocketing the 10 ball in the corner (eliminating a bank reply for Shane) and bringing the cueball 3 rails between the 15 ball and 1 ball (possibly getting the 4th rail as it comes to rest). Its for sure what I would shoot and Im confident Efren will choose that option.
So basically you are sending the cueball towards the same place and path as people wanting to kick 3 rails between the 1 ball and 15 ball but by making the 10 ball you are eliminating the free 10 ball bank for Shane
There really isn't any option that I can see that I would like shooting, none.:sorry

Your option looks to be as good as any, maybe the angle is there to play the 10ball two cushions toward the balls on your side, opening them up or possibly even pocketing the 10ball in some way. Of course you're playing the cue ball as you described..just hoping the angle to play the 10ball is natural to do both.

Dr. Bill
 

Island Drive

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Come off the ball on the foot rail by your pocket (5?) and open your cluster sending whitey, three ta' four rails, by the upper corner pocket and leave Effie the combo.

With your two balls now open....this then takes away efrens ability to hit this shot with more speed, it makes em slow roll the combo which is a low percentage shot.
 
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piggybank04

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hey!! doesnt anybody like my 8-6 combo from here?? im telling you, i think it goes if you can hit the 8 hard enough, then the 6 goes on its own or off the 2 helper balls.....ive shot these kind of shots before and as crazy as it sounds, ive either made them or hung the ball.....heck, you open the pack and if youre 90% sure, why not go for it instead of suffering through a long game you probably arent going to win?
 

Cory in dc

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Answer

Answer

  • Partial credit goes to Androd, who called a 3-rail kick. The credit is for having the cue come in *above* the 1 and into the 15, and for posting early.

  • More partial credit to piggybank, who listed the actual shot among a set of other options and got the audience response correct to boot: "how about backward banking the 10 towards his hole, and somehow manipulating the cb 3 rails towards svb's hole coming behind the 11 with the 10 right in front of efrens hole...... ( and the crowd erupts in rapturous applause and cheering)......lol"
    (You lost a little credit for adding "lol" to the description of the correct shot.)

Cory

IF the pictures below don't show up, see post 31 in this thread.


1. The path of the CB and 10-ball:



2. The outcome:
 
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tylerdurden

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  • Partial credit goes to Androd, who called a 3-rail kick. The credit is for having the cue come in *above* the 1 and into the 15, and for posting early.

  • More partial credit to piggybank, who listed the actual shot among a set of other options and got the audience response correct to boot: "how about backward banking the 10 towards his hole, and somehow manipulating the cb 3 rails towards svb's hole coming behind the 11 with the 10 right in front of efrens hole...... ( and the crowd erupts in rapturous applause and cheering)......lol"
    (You lost a little credit for adding "lol" to the description of the correct shot.)

Cory

1. The path of the CB and 10-ball:


2. The outcome:
I am seeing little broken picture icons :(
 

gulfportdoc

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If I understand the outcome as it was described (the picture didn't post), this was a "typical" Efren miracle shot! What can one say? He has one of the greatest touches ever.

The problem lies in the CB leave. If it's not laying just right at the outcome, then SVB will make at least 3 balls, maybe more. For us mere mortals, either of the "take out" shots would be safer.

Nice example, Cory!

Doc
 

Cory in dc

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Sorry, I'm trying again to post the pictures, this time through an outside host. Like I said, it's my first time with this.

1. The path of the CB and 10-ball:


2. The outcome:
 

wincardona

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Sorry, I'm trying again to post the pictures, this time through an outside host. Like I said, it's my first time with this.

1. The path of the CB and 10-ball:


2. The outcome:
You can't hit that shot any better than Reyes did, notice the speed with the cue ball.:D Reyes is an excellent 3 cushion player and he must have really liked the angle he was offerd for the shot. Actually going into or toward the 1ball from the angle that the shot suggested, would increase his margin for error with the shot, especially judging the speed of the shot.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Shane actually has a three rail bank with the 13ball. This is a shot that many players practice, now it's finally come up in a game. Bank the 13ball three cushions toward your pocket and use a "high ball right english" Looks like the shot will work out well. Plus the shot can be hit with the speed to travel one cushion to the left side of the 10ball..below the side pocket.

Try the shot and then get back to me. Who ever is interested in learning the shot.

Dr. Bill
 

NH Steve

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You can't hit that shot any better than Reyes did, notice the speed with the cue ball.:D Reyes is an excellent 3 cushion player and he must have really liked the angle he was offerd for the shot. Actually going into or toward the 1ball from the angle that the shot suggested, would increase his margin for error with the shot, especially judging the speed of the shot.

Dr. Bill
Reyes clearly played "all cue ball" on that shot, executing it 100% like it was a three cushion billiard shot.

I heard in one of the brief interviews with Carlo Biado, that part of how he has learned his own game is by playing with Efren Reyes -- including three cushion. Out there in the recent US Open One Pocket I saw Biado play variations of this particular shot several times -- i.e. banking a ball straight back toward his pocket and swinging the cue ball three rails around the table. Every one of them he his well. Maybe not as well as Efren hit this one, lol, but well enough to see that he has a great feel for this kind of shot. On the contrary, one of the other filipinos played one once (maybe Bustamante, sorry I forget who), and played it terribly long and sold out.
 

Tom Wirth

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Shane actually has a three rail bank with the 13ball. This is a shot that many players practice, now it's finally come up in a game. Bank the 13ball three cushions toward your pocket and use a "high ball right english" Looks like the shot will work out well. Plus the shot can be hit with the speed to travel one cushion to the left side of the 10ball..below the side pocket.

Try the shot and then get back to me. Who ever is interested in learning the shot.

Dr. Bill
Hey Dr. Bill, Funny you bring this shot up. I've been using this shot for many years. I first learned it by accident while trying to three rail both the OB and the cue ball.

The cue ball curves if you use a high ball on an approx. half ball hit. The cue ball picks up the top rail very safely and flattens out to drop straight down the far side rail. The shot can be hit with speed too, so you can drop the cue ball all the way down the table should you desire.

This shot can be very effective when there is traffic along the far side rail. In addition it is rarely anticipated by your opponent thereby adding to his psychological discomfort due to his never really knowing what you might pull out of your hat the next time you're at the table. I used it in one of my matches at the US Open this past trip. It's a fun shot too. :)

Tom
 

piggybank04

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  • Partial credit goes to Androd, who called a 3-rail kick. The credit is for having the cue come in *above* the 1 and into the 15, and for posting early.

  • More partial credit to piggybank, who listed the actual shot among a set of other options and got the audience response correct to boot: "how about backward banking the 10 towards his hole, and somehow manipulating the cb 3 rails towards svb's hole coming behind the 11 with the 10 right in front of efrens hole...... ( and the crowd erupts in rapturous applause and cheering)......lol"
    (You lost a little credit for adding "lol" to the description of the correct shot.)

Cory

IF the pictures below don't show up, see post 31 in this thread.


1. The path of the CB and 10-ball:



2. The outcome:
i put the "lol" in there to illustrate the point that the shot is one of those that only efren could pull off unlike us mere mortals
 

Cory in dc

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Still having trouble getting the picture to post. Here's another try at the outcome picture.

Billy -- I will practice that 3 railer. I love playing a similar shot when the CB is in line with the OB or a little bit inside. The object ball goes 3 rails to my hole and the cueball goes 3 rails to (but not in) the opponent's hole. I think the shot is the same one Tom Wirth was describing. It can be a real psychological blow to your opponent if you're playing someone who doesn't know it. And it is very fun.
 

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Tom Wirth

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Still having trouble getting the picture to post. Here's another try at the outcome picture.

Billy -- I will practice that 3 railer. I love playing a similar shot when the CB is in line with the OB or a little bit inside. The object ball goes 3 rails to my hole and the cueball goes 3 rails to (but not in) the opponent's hole. I think the shot is the same one Tom Wirth was describing. It can be a real psychological blow to your opponent if you're playing someone who doesn't know it. And it is very fun.
Cory, If I may. The shot Billy is suggesting or at least the one I envisioned Billy was suggesting was to three rail the OB but one rail the cue ball. The idea being that the cue ball runs directly to the top rail and straight down the table parallel to the opposite side rail from the starting position.

The OB and cue ball must be in ideal positions for this shot to work so fiddle around with it until you discover the proper juxtaposition for both balls.

Have fun. :)

Dr. Bill, I apologize if I stepped on your shot but since Cory added my name in his post I took advantage of the timing. It happens to be one of my favorites and I rarely see it utilized.

Tom
 

Cory in dc

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Cory, If I may. The shot Billy is suggesting or at least the one I envisioned Billy was suggesting was to three rail the OB but one rail the cue ball. The idea being that the cue ball runs directly to the top rail and straight down the table parallel to the opposite side rail from the starting position.

The OB and cue ball must be in ideal positions for this shot to work so fiddle around with it until you discover the proper juxtaposition for both balls.

Have fun. :)

Dr. Bill, I apologize if I stepped on your shot but since Cory added my name in his post I took advantage of the timing. It happens to be one of my favorites and I rarely see it utilized.

Tom
I understood that you meant to one-rail the CB. That's the shot I need to practice, because I'd be afraid of selling-out the 10-ball if I hit it with high right . . . I need to get the CB to bend as you describe. (To be clear, I do not doubt the shot, I just need to hit it some to add it to my arsenal).

Separately, I was pointing out that it reminds me of the shot pasted below, which has a totally different cueball path but a similar object ball path.

 

wincardona

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I understood that you meant to one-rail the CB. That's the shot I need to practice, because I'd be afraid of selling-out the 10-ball if I hit it with high right . . . (Using high right will "kill" the speed of the shot and change the the angle coming off the top rail, shortening it. You'll be surprised to see how well you will be able to control the cue ball and i'm sure you will like the shot enough to incorporate it into your arsenal of shots) I need to get the CB to bend as you describe. (To be clear, I do not doubt the shot, I just need to hit it some to add it to my arsenal).

Separately, I was pointing out that it reminds me of the shot pasted below, which has a totally different cueball path but a similar object ball path.

Exactly, however, the path the cue ball takes is what makes this shot so unique and special. There will be times when a certain path for the cue ball to take will not be available (due to the angle ) it's then when you can envision taking another path, now that you know there's another path available.:cool:

Dr. Bill
 
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