WWYD at The Broken Rack

Tobermory

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Sax pro Joe and I were playing a little 20 dollar one pocket tonight. I'm giving him 9-7. We're tied at 7-5 when Joe came to the table after I missed the bank but left him long without a clear take out shot. There aren't a lot of choices, but WWYD?
 

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J.R.

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Sax pro Joe and I were playing a little 20 dollar one pocket tonight. I'm giving him 9-7. We're tied at 7-5 when Joe came to the table after I missed the bank but left him long without a clear take out shot. There aren't a lot of choices, but WWYD?
I would lag the cue ball two rails and kick at the striped ball by my opponent's pocket.

I am fairly confident on this type of shot using "the spot on the wall for a reference point." One of the shots that I practice before playing a match on a table is to place the cue ball in the corner pocket and calculate where and how much spin is needed to bank the cue ball a half diamond before the corner pocket and to also bank the cue ball into the corner pocket.

As to the shot itself, the first rail my cue ball would strike is the long rail where the 14-ball is nearest. The spot on the long rail my cue ball would strike is approximately 1 inch before the side pocket. I would strike the cue ball with approximately 3/4's tip of high right (running English).

The cue ball's direction coming off the long rail should then strike the short rail between the 1st diamond and my opponent's pocket. The cue ball should be struck with enough force to come off the short rail and kick the striped ball several inches up table from my opponent's pocket and towards the long rail.
 

Kybanks

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I am cutting the 13 ball in and playing position for the cross corner. Living with the results no matter what.
 

darmoose

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While kicking at that ball ought to be pretty straightforward, I gotta believe I would be successful more often using the 13 ball to take that ball out.:)
 

jrhendy

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I like J.R.’s shot. The problem with taking the ball out IMO with the ball in front of you is you really don’t know where both balls are going and are relying on a little bit of luck on a shot you could lose the game on. You may leave a shot after the kick, but the other balls are still uptable.
 

wincardona

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I like J.R.’s shot. The problem with taking the ball out IMO with the ball in front of you is you really don’t know where both balls are going and are relying on a little bit of luck on a shot you could lose the game on. You may leave a shot after the kick, but the other balls are still uptable.
You are 100% correct with your analysis John, taking the ball out is part one of the problem, part two is controlling the balls that are involved in the take out.:heh

If you're somewhat familiar with the kick then kicking should be a strong consideration.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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While kicking at that ball ought to be pretty straightforward, I gotta believe I would be successful more often using the 13 ball to take that ball out.:)
In this scenario where there are very few balls left on the table you will give up a shot more often than not trying to take the ball out off the 13ball. However, when there are multiple balls around the rack area then your chances are better not giving up a shot with the take out. In either case the kick should be considered.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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I am cutting the 13 ball in and playing position for the cross corner. Living with the results no matter what.
As a 9/7 dog playing the game shooting the 13ball would be a viable option IMO, however, if you were a 9/7 favorite facing this situation then what would you do? I'm kicking for sure. And as a 9/7 dog facing this situation I'm 50/50 shooting the 13ball but if I'm feeling good then I'm shooting.

Dr. Bill
 

Seb Pauchon

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Hi,
What do you guys think of playing safe off the 14 to buy some time until you have a clearer view on the 10? The resting positions of the balls seem easier to control than with the kick or playing the 13 on the 10.
Maybe less effective than the other two options, but maybe less risky ?
Or too passive?

seb
 

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El Chapo

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You gotta shoot at a ball here, the 13. I hate losing after a kick or some other ducking move.
 

12squared

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You gotta shoot at a ball here, the 13. I hate losing after a kick or some other ducking move.
If you want to shoot, how about banking the 13 and spininning the cue to take out the 10(?) in the corner? But I am in the camp to kick at the 10 ball using the short rail as the 2nd rail to try to bank that ball to my side.
 

catkins

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I would have to bank the 14 to the long rail and play below the ball in opponents pocket
 

catkins

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Hi,
What do you guys think of playing safe off the 14 to buy some time until you have a clearer view on the 10? The resting positions of the balls seem easier to control than with the kick or playing the 13 on the 10.
Maybe less effective than the other two options, but maybe less risky ?
Or too passive?

seb
I like this shot except I want to make sure the ball is on the short rail not the long rail
 

unoperro

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If the full cue jump takeout is available that would be my 1st choice.

I see at least 4 ways to scratch/foul on that kick -and I like to kick.

I may bank that 13 at the 14, taking them both out of play and see if thats enough rope for my opponent to hang himself.
 

Tom Wirth

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I'm cutting the 13 for my pocket with a firm stroke. I would want to give myself the best chance I can get to pocket the ball so whatever I need to do to accomplish that, that is how I will want to play the shot. I have also played the shot with a zig zag pattern on the cue ball, sending it side rail side rail towards the ball near my opponent's pocket. This I might do if I feel the three balls are ideally positioned. I've played this shot in this way numerous times with a high success rate. There is a reasonable chance I can leave the cue ball down low and along his side rail. If that happens he won't have much of a shot on it. Either way I'm shooting of my pocket in this situation.

As was stated by others, there are several ways to sell out the kick shot which is a purely defensive shot. The cut shot is not much more difficult, so for my money I'd rather go down swinging than I would ducking. This also sends a message. I know of no player who prefers seeing their opponent shooting at their hole verses playing safeties.

One more thing that favors the cut shot for me. If miss the shot but I over cut the 13, it will run three rails towards the top left corner essentially taking it out of play. I'm very likely still in the hunt should I sell out that one ball.

One other factor that was not mentioned. Is the 13 ball past the foul line? If it is than anyone contemplating the kick is asking for trouble.

Tom
 
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Tobermory

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The 13 is on the line, so not available in the event of scratch. What would you guess is your make percentage on that 13 ball?

I'm cutting the 13 for my pocket with a firm stroke. I would want to give myself the best chance I can get to pocket the ball so whatever I need to do to accomplish that, that is how I will want to play the shot. I have also played the shot with a zig zag pattern on the cue ball, sending it side rail side rail towards the ball near my opponent's pocket. This I might do if I feel the three balls are ideally positioned. I've played this shot in this way numerous times with a high success rate. There is a reasonable chance I can leave the cue ball down low and along his side rail. If that happens he won't have much of a shot on it. Either way I'm shooting of my pocket in this situation.

As was stated by others, there are several ways to sell out the kick shot which is a purely defensive shot. The cut shot is not much more difficult, so for my money I'd rather go down swinging than I would ducking. This also sends a message. I know of no player who prefers seeing their opponent shooting at their hole verses playing safeties.

One more thing that favors the cut shot for me. If miss the shot but I over cut the 13, it will run three rails towards the top left corner essentially taking it out of play. I'm very likely still in the hunt should I sell out that one ball.

One other factor that was not mentioned. Is the 13 ball past the foul line? If it is than anyone contemplating the kick is asking for trouble.

Tom
 

Tom Wirth

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I'll keep that estimate to myself, thanks.
Some things need to be found out the hard way. :D

Tom
 

Mkbtank

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WWYD at The Broken Rack

If you want to shoot, how about banking the 13 and spininning the cue to take out the 10(?) in the corner? But I am in the camp to kick at the 10 ball using the short rail as the 2nd rail to try to bank that ball to my side.


Finally somebody selected my shot lol. Good go off eye 👁 Dave. I’m just lucky enough to pull it off. Lol
 

Thecoats

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I am either kicking or possibly playing safe on top of the 13. Which may be an intentional foul. While many will disagree with my line of thinking here if I am playing for 20 I might just go for it but if I am playing for over 100 a game I am probably looking for a way to duck.
 
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