Wwad

Island Drive

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i think getting the cue ball up table is a good idea
for me cincy's way would be easier
True, but Alex plays so well, I wouldn't put it past em to try caroming the obj. ball with sideboards. Seeing tho as how the ball sits further from the pocket than I thought, I again probably chose the wrong shot. :frus
 

lll

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I'm in agreement with this approach also, it's not that hard of a shot to execute if you commit to it.

Now another question: Would you adjust your strategy here if you both needed 2 balls?
i stick my neck out first...:D
no.....:eek:
 

t-dog

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the problem with this shot to me is leaving a shot on the 15
this is how i understand the shot and possible landing places for the 15
EDIT THE CUE BALL PROBABLY GOES MORE TO THE RIGHT AS YOU LOOK AT THE SCREEN NOT LEAVING A SHOT ONTHE 4 (7?)
at the computer its tough for me to tell the distance the 15 will travel
View attachment 14170
Thank you and Androd as well.
 

lll

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I'm in agreement with this approach also, it's not that hard of a shot to execute if you commit to it.

Now another question: Would you adjust your strategy here if you both needed 2 balls?
So what did Pag do?
i would like for some of the more experienced players answer 1pwannabee
question
before island drive's answer to his question
bill no disrespect but it would be educational to answer 1pwb question before knowing alex shot
jmho
icbw
 

wincardona

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I'm in agreement with this approach also, it's not that hard of a shot to execute if you commit to it.

Now another question: Would you adjust your strategy here if you both needed 2 balls?
Good question. After acknowledging the score you then must take into consideration the placement of the balls on the table. In this lay out all the balls are in play for both players after the 15ball is moved, with this understanding you must try to win the first shot while the balls are in play or keep your opponent off the first shot. The player who wins the first shot with balls in play will most likely win whether he needs one ball or two balls. If a ball was out of play then the shooter could possibly play a strategy choosing an option to put another ball out of play if only one ball was needed for the win. In this situation the correct shot for the player needing only one ball would be the same shot if he needed two balls because all the balls are in play.

Dr. Bill
 

Island Drive

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A good golf on the pool table player said this. If you need one, and your opponent needs the rest, don't ever give em a free shot without letting you also have a return shot if he misses. This guy is 72 from the east coast, plays good and grew up watching Boston Shorty and others on the E. coast, he still plays every day.
 

lll

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A good golf on the pool table player said this. If you need one, and your opponent needs the rest, don't ever give em a free shot without letting you also have a return shot if he misses. This guy is 72 from the east coast, plays good and grew up watching Boston Shorty and others on the E. coast, he still plays every day.
does that mean you are still in the camp to make the the 15 rather than kick it??
 

Scrzbill

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I dont know what I am missing here but it looks like Alex has enough room to kick off the long rail with draw and kick out the 15. It leaves the 15 up table and does not leave the cue in a good spot to shoot at the dark ball closet to his pocket.
 

Tom Wirth

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Let's say for starters that Alex moves the fifteen up table and into a safe position on his side of the table. Let's also say he has left no bank on the seven that will leave it in the vicinity of his opponent's pocket. What will his opponent most likely do? If it were me, I would do one of two things. I would either move the seven up table to my side and try to freeze the cue ball to the foot rail, and I would also strive to leave the seven several inches away from the side rail. This will force Alex to deal with that ball as a potential straight back bank. This will prevent Alex from knocking the third ball away from my pocket.

The game becomes a battle of momentum. Each player trying to force their opponent into surrendering a good bank shot by having positioned the balls in areas of the table which favors them. Obvious, right? Well this equality of position is what will happen should Alex send the fifteen up table.

Now let's look at this other kick shot where the object ball is first sent to the side rail and back across to Alex's side of the table while also bringing the cue ball to the head rail. Now it will be in his opponent's best interest to deal with the fifteen. He will not likely have an opportunity to send it back toward his own pocket because that angle will not likely be there without risking loss of the cue ball or possibly selling out the seven.

Why is this so important? Because of momentum. Typically, you want your opponent having to be the one sending balls up table. Not you! With the cue ball down table and the remaining balls up table you are frequently giving your opponent banking opportunities.

So, now Alex's opponent has moved the fifteen back up table toward his side and played safe. Alex now has options. He can either move the fifteen across to his own side setting up a potential straight back or he can move the ball residing close to his opponent's pocket with the same intentions. He is now more in control of the table than his opponent.

It is all about momentum at this stage of the game. Just my take. I hope it made sense to some of you. It's complicated and not easy to explain.

Tom
 
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1pwannabe

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I posted this one for a couple of reasons.

Even Alex, as great as he obviously is, doesn't always execute a difficult shot perfectly, and in this case he didn't seem to commit fully to his idea of kicking the 15 out from the bottom rail. He sold out because he hit it too soft, or maybe too full, and lost the match.

This position, or ones very much like it, come up a lot in 1p endgames. Every shot here carries high risk, and committing to whatever you decide is vital or you will most often lose the game outright.

Alex lost the momentum a couple shots back and let Shane put him in this trap. The score doesn't matter because all balls are in play, as Dr Bill pointed out.

 

beatle

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that is exactly why you leave good players long shots off the rail. and never cueball close to the object ball as in the last wwyd.

still the right shot is to hit it firm and kick the ball up table towards where the cueball is. where and how you do this is determined by how far the object ball is off the rail. a half inch difference changes things.
 

Tom Wirth

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I posted this one for a couple of reasons.

Even Alex, as great as he obviously is, doesn't always execute a difficult shot perfectly, and in this case he didn't seem to commit fully to his idea of kicking the 15 out from the bottom rail. He sold out because he hit it too soft, or maybe too full, and lost the match.

This position, or ones very much like it, come up a lot in 1p endgames. Every shot here carries high risk, and committing to whatever you decide is vital or you will most often lose the game outright.

Alex lost the momentum a couple shots back and let Shane put him in this trap. The score doesn't matter because all balls are in play, as Dr Bill pointed out.

You hit the nail on the head with this comment in bold. Commitment is certainly a key element to any shot. I still believe he chose the right shot in this instance and for the reasons I stated earlier. Poor execution of the right shot will happen even among the best players. This simply means he has to do a better job with this type shot in the future. Something for him to work on but not something to discard.

Tom
 

Island Drive

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does that mean you are still in the camp to make the the 15 rather than kick it??
It's a shot I shoot well but kicking off the foot rail I do like better if I'm able to control both balls. Since the 15 is off the rail, I also might fan the cue ball and bank it one rail towards my hole. But then I might leave a 2 rail long rail bank. Like I've said before I shoot poorly from the computer screen, but truly enjoy the mindsets, of the members and looking forward to getting punished in TX, as that's how I learn....committing 100%. I wish someone would set up the shot I mentioned and let us know their outcomes.
 

Tom Wirth

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It's a shot I shoot well but kicking off the foot rail I do like better if I'm able to control both balls. Since the 15 is off the rail, I also might fan the cue ball and bank it one rail towards my hole. But then I might leave a 2 rail long rail bank. Like I've said before I shoot poorly from the computer screen, but truly enjoy the mindsets, of the members and looking forward to getting punished in TX, as that's how I learn....committing 100%. I wish someone would set up the shot I mentioned and let us know their outcomes.
Bill, I do like the idea behind the shot you suggest, but from the image, I truly believe the fourteen is too far away from the fifteen. Personally, I simply don't have a stroke that can make that hit from that distance and that angle.

That being said, unless you know you have a very good chance of making a ball in your own pocket, not just getting it close, why would you wish to surrender a ball that can be easily and safely removed when it means giving up one third of the game to your opponent?

Tom
 

Jeff sparks

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I'd pocket the ball and draw off the foot rail and kick the 14 towards my hole bringing whitey up table. I could make the 14 two or three ways, carom or no carom, but I'd definitely be moving one or two balls at my hole. Don't see a scratch on this shot up table after the carom. Being up table now with one or two balls near my hole will be difficult to NOT leave me a return shot.

Hey Bill,

Powerful stroke you got there.

If the 14 was closer to the 15, say about a 4" separation, then that shot would be a viable option IMO, however at the distance it lays, it looks extremely risky.

Hey Bill,
This could be a prop bet when you get to Houston. I'll throw out an offer, if you think it's fair, then we got action.

You make the 14 and hit the head rail with the CB, you win $100.00
You move the 14 over by your pocket and hit the head rail with the CB you win $50.00
You fail at either, you lose $20.00
When one of us loses $200.00, it's over.

Never mind that, here's a better offer, you win $200.00 if you pocket the 15, pocket the 14 and hit the head rail with the CB, and $100.00 if you pocket the 15 and move the 14 over by your pocket and hit the head rail with the CB. You lose $10.00 if you fail at either.

I'm kinda looking to get staked in the tournament, or stake someone with a powerful stroke and a good imagination, either way I'm happy.

Whatta ya say? Got action?
 
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Island Drive

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Woofin' begins :)

Woofin' begins :)

I'd rather just play a set of 9 or 10 to get the swing goin' on Thur to get the arm warmed up before one hole, then we can talk about this prop bet. Having not played with the measles ball, I'm sure it'll take a little getting used to, but hey....every table takes getting used too :p.
 

crabbcatjohn

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I'd rather just play a set of 9 or 10 to get the swing goin' on Thur to get the arm warmed up before one hole, then we can talk about this prop bet. Having not played with the measles ball, I'm sure it'll take a little getting used to, but hey....every table takes getting used too :p.
LOL....... Wonder who's taller...
 

gulfportdoc

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...
Even Alex, as great as he obviously is, doesn't always execute a difficult shot perfectly, and in this case he didn't seem to commit fully to his idea of kicking the 15 out from the bottom rail. He sold out because he hit it too soft, or maybe too full, and lost the match.
...
That is one reason I was reluctant to sign on to this option from the beginning. Obviously Alex just spaced it, as you say. But the shot allows for very little leeway on the hit. Too thin, and the shot doesn't play out well. Too thick and the balls head up table in the same direction-- as happened here.

I tried the shot at home, and was successful with it, but only on the 2nd or 3rd try. The first one I hit poorly. So I'm not confident in that shot. I like rolling the CB to the side rail and softly bunting the 12. That blocks action on any of the other balls. Shooting it firmly with draw is good too, but I have better feel for the bunt shot. It's not as scratchy as it looks...

~Doc
 
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