Who is the Most Knowledgeable One Pocket Player?

beatle

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people confuse the most knowledgeable with the best. they are two different things.

for just being knowledgeable i put guys like

ed kelley
ronnie allen
grady
bill cordone
jack breitkoff
ed taylor

to the top. ive seen them all and played four of them. but that means little.
 

NH Steve

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Watching Efren play a few years ago it suddenly came to me that he "thinks" about pool differently from other players. I'll try to explain it this way -- we all have a "native language" -- English, Spanish, whatever -- that is the language that we think in. Well for Efren, when he is at the table, he is not thinking in his native Pinoy tongue of Tagalog, I really believe he actually "thinks" in his own pool language, native to the table. This allows him to "see" and try out different ways of playing shots in his mind incredibly realistically, prior to stepping into whatever shot he selects to shoot.

I mention this because in life (and pool, obviously) I believe there are different kinds of smarts -- some more book learned, some more practical, and some that are basic intuitive survival smarts that defy explanation.

Okay, I guess Lenny asked "who is the most knowledgeable". That's not as much fun :D or maybe it is. For knowledge, I think the players that have a good mind for the game and have been immersed in the game would get that nod. I think for most knowledgeable of all time you have to put Artie, Breit, Lingo, Incardona, Grady, RA, Cooney, Hubert Cokes and others like that in the mix, that fully embraced the game, were smart, and were around the game many years. Today players like Ike Runnels, Frost & Gentile would get my vote -- but watch out for some of these young guys that are obviously knowledge sponges that are now coming along.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I am no longer allowed to take his name in vain,...But I definately know who THINKS he has the greatest one pocket mind in the world..:eek:

PS..Frost could easily give him, 10 or 11 to 5 (or more)..His far superior [sic] 'moving', would NOT save him. :cool:
Certainly you cannot be referring to the (anonymous) player who thinks that 8-7 is less weight than 9-8 BUT only if SVB is on the receiving end from Frost:confused:. Otherwise 8-7 is more weight for all other human beings to give or receive.

Anonymous Player said:
On this posr we now 8 to 7 is better than 9 to 8. I have said it over and onver.

And all this nonesense. And changing what I said too some other game and 12 to 6 is better then 11 to 6.

Last come back dowmn too reality. What I said and one player I was talking about.

Not some silly wording about a hundred different senarias. You Gentlmen are a little silly dont you think.

I never mentioned a nother Player. Excepte Shane and Scoot.

That is the topick nothing else. And Like I said You try too change the wording and lalke about everything different then what I am talking about and said.

And Dennies You no I was only talking about Shane and Scott.

And I even said that 80% off the people would take 8 to 7 over 9 to 8. And I gave my reasond why its better.

I no 90% ot 95% or maybe 99.9% will all say take 8 to 7 to Shane.

I would tell Shane to take 9 to 8. And because Shane will run 8 as easy as easy as 7.

Will Scott Run 8 balls as easy as 9 No he wont. Thier could be a good swing in him running nine over eight.

And one more chance too win the game is very big with a good player.

We all no that the Percentages are in the favor off 8 to 7. Howe much difference is it not hardly anything too Shane.

But too Scott its a sifference.

And I have had a lot off experence with the games 8 to 7 and 9 to 8.

People dont know because they have never done that. They always took 8 to 7 Instead off 9 to 8.

And 9 to 8 will put mre waier on Mr Scott. And in almost every game I would tell them to take 8 to 7 . Excepte Shane against Scott.

If I played john I would rather take 9 to 8 then 8 to 7. Has anyone ever done that tahe 9 to 8 instead off 8 to 7.

This is a good qouistion.. And If you never done that.

Howe would you no whats better for Shane. Is it because you no 8 to 7 is a better percentage game
..
And we all no its better for the weacker player too take 8 to 7 then 9 to 8.

But People can think whatever they may think. And its not like its a big change from 8 to 7 to 9 too 8.

I could showe you other examplies off how less off a spot is better then the better percentage odds.

BUt I never said that 8 to 7 was better then 9 to 8. And everyone assumed it.

Because I said it was better for Shane. Nobody else.

And IF I dont no what I am doing and saying. Why did I take 9 to 8 from Bugs instead off 8 to 7. Why?

And we no everybody else would have taken 8 To 7.

And from all the top playersI wiould rather take 9 to 8 then 8 to 7.

No exceptions. And when I was playing I no if I would run 7 I would run 8 almost just as easy.

Andother words. If I run 5 7 and outs. Howe meny off the games do you think I would have run eight.

Know take the same sinaria and see howe menty times. Will the player who runs 8. 5 times howe ment times in the 5 games will he run 9.

You belive that he will run less nines then I will run eights.

Do you belive that.. If you do thats why you have the player going too 9 instead off 8.

Just like the tight pockets. THe do not help the weacker player. THey help the better player.

Howe much difference will the tight pockets make for the great player.

And howe much nifference will the pockets make too the weack player.

All these great shooters likevScott Alex Shane Eferine Cory Duel. THe tight pockets donr efect them much.

But te sure will affect a weack player. And I always gave out the bigest spots on the tightest table.

And people dont belive that the tighter table helps the better player. To me that showes howe little they no.

If you play a weack player. 8 to 2. Why would you want too play on a easy pocket table.

A great player will not be affected on a tighter table. But the weacker player.

It will affect hinbig time.

And I like Shane 8 to 7 or 9 to 8. And playing 8 ahead does not favoer Scott in a long session giving out a spot.

And Scott might have changed his game from Shooting to moving. But I dont no because I was not thier.

And I didnt see what he did.

And I no most off all the people and bettors like Scott.

If Shane and Scott keep playing Shane will get the money. But we will see what hapines.



And yes 8 to 7 is better then 9 to 8. Is that Correct. And Matamaticale its correct too.

And the only players I was talking about was Scott and Shane. Nobody needs to change what I say.

Amd give a buntch off twsted bizzar changes. With two million Cenarias. And howe much better 8 to 7 is then 9 to 8.

I never said it was not a better game. So you dont need too qoite me on something that I didnt say.

And I sais 9 to 8 is better for Shane then 8 to 7. THat I did say. And I still say it.

But I never said 8 to 7 is better then 9 to 8. And people want to make up whatever suites them.

Even if the person didnt say that. And twist it and turn it and say everything that comes too thier mind but what I said.

I guess some people llike doing that. Buthing words in another persons mouth.

Dont make up things Its not very perfesional. And its in bad taste. And when the peson breacks it down what he said and you changed it too.

It will be anything but what you changed it too. And its not what the person said.

And people fall wright in like the solders marching. It doesnt mean anything.

But at least if you qouite me say what I said. Not what you said.

And I love discousing whatever comes up. But dont use something against me that I didnt say.

Its realy in very poor taste. And I have explained it as clear as I can.

And because I pick out something that is Better for the player. Then percentage wise.

That is my opinion. And you have youres. And I never said that you were wrong when you said that 8 to 7 is better then 9 to 8.

Because matamatical. You would be the only one that could win.

Excepte I never said it was better. I said 9 to 8 is a better game for Shane then 8 to 7.


And I hope you dont ask Why did Shane win at 8 to 7 and not 9 to 8.

And youre answer might be because 8 to 7 is better then 9 to 8 thats why he won 8 to 7.

And everyone would belive you and go along with you.

And its very hard to go afainst something that is Matamatical correct.

But you do have the percentages in your favor. I canot and will not debate that.

Because that is a hundred percent correct.
 

lll

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Certainly you cannot be referring to the (anonymous) player who thinks that 8-7 is less weight than 9-8 BUT only if SVB is on the receiving end from Frost:confused:. Otherwise 8-7 is more weight for all other human beings to give or receive.
havent read a post like that from the "anonymous player" in along time.......
thanks for the memories dennis......:D
 

androd

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havent read a post like that from the "anonymous player" in along time.......
thanks for the memories dennis......:D
I still haven't read one. After about half of that Idiocy I had to quit.
Made my head hurt. :frus
Rod.
 

lll

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I still haven't read one. After about half of that Idiocy I had to quit.
Made my head hurt. :frus
Rod.
take 2 asprins
play some onepocket
you will feel better
:)
p.s
just think what they were like to read when it was one BIG paragraph with no spaces....:frus......:eek:.......:heh
 

SJDinPHX

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Certainly you cannot be referring to the (anonymous) player who thinks that 8-7 is less weight than 9-8 BUT only if SVB is on the receiving end from Frost:confused:. Otherwise 8-7 is more weight for all other human beings to give or receive.
Actually, No I wasn't (hint, see post #18, hint) :rolleyes: Also, I notice this must have been posted AFTER "Mr. Anonymous" discovered the enter key, and started spelling "of".."off", instead of "ove"..;)

Can anybody please decipher this line, in his essay, for me ? (Its about line 20) :confused:

"And 9 to 8 will put 'mre waier'(?) on Mr Scott. And in almost every game I would tell them to take 8 to 7 . Excepte Shane against Scoot"

Gotta say, I do miss his unique outlook on many subjects,,He is definately, one OVE a kinnd..:p :p :p
 
Last edited:

Cary

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mre waier = more pressure.

His mind runs so fast that his fingers can't keep up and went on to "pressure" before finishing with "more" and hit several wrong keys, circling "s" at least once and falling short of "r" but long on "e", while racing to catch up on the word "pressure".

Either that or he was saying "more, waiter" in the middle of his one pocket thought.
 

lll

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mre waier = more pressure.

His mind runs so fast that his fingers can't keep up and went on to "pressure" before finishing with "more" and hit several wrong keys, circling "s" at least once and falling short of "r" but long on "e", while racing to catch up on the word "pressure".

Either that or he was saying "more, waiter" in the middle of his one pocket thought.
And 9 to 8 will put mre waier on Mr Scott

my translator came up with more wear
 

tylerdurden

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I'll just say, for our current crop, I think if Gentile had frost's firepower he'd definitely be a cut above the rest. So, I thinks hes reals smarts.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Okay, I guess Lenny asked "who is the most knowledgeable". Today players like Ike Runnels, Frost & Gentile would get my vote.

I'll just say, for our current crop, I think if Gentile had frost's firepower he'd definitely be a cut above the rest. So, I thinks hes reals smarts.

Thanks guys..:)...Back when Chris was 16-17 yrs. old, when he first started coming in the poolroom, I used to give him his handicap in the weekly tournaments that I ran back then at Chris's Billiards - nowadays, Chris still asks me about One Pocket shots and moves, when we're both in the poolroom at the same time...:)...

- Ghost

PS, Since Freddy's not around, I figured you guys were probably brag-starved by now :heh so I thought I'd help you guys out/fill the gap, and do a little bragging...:D
 

Del

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The Most Knowledgeable One Pocket Player? IMO it is a 3 word answer:
EFREN BATA REYES

Grady said: "he is one the greatest pool minds of this century"
Asked if this guy would have beaten him if he played him in his golden years Ronnie answered: " he probably would have, but he'll be too tired to enjoy it"
I asked Grady 15 years ago why he thought this player is so good and he said: "his incredible creativity" . He also said: " he is such a mild mannered person, but he is a killer on the pool table."
I asked Ernesto the same question that Lenny asked, and he said: Efren, because of his mastery in handling the white ball, no one even comes close.
I watched Efren gamble with a famous pro in Hard Times in Sacramento, $500 a game, giving him the break and 2 balls. The "pro" would break then he'd pick any 2 balls off the table. I have never seen a player with such focus, determination and level of concentration. After 4 hours, the final score was:
Efren: 12 Opponent:2

A well thought of commentator on one of the Accustat tapes said that Efren is no longer allowed to enter Ballkline tournaments in the Philippines. He would hang around until the end of the tournament, then would challenge the winner giving him a spot of 150 balls in a 500 ball game. BTW, Efren says that ballkline is his best game.

I watched with awe Efren shoot a cross side pocket bank playing Mike Siegel early in a strait pool championship match, go 3 rails, break the stack then run 141 balls. To run 141 balls is certainly not a record, but to have the confidence, courage and skill to shoot that shot playing a guy like Mike? How many players do we know would even consider it?

Its for for the above reasons and then some that I think Efren is the most knowledgeable player. He ranks up there with some of the greats. Having said all that, he of course is not unbeatable. No one is. His skill level is no longer as sharp (and we all know why) but he is still a force to be reckoned with.

This is my humble opinion.
 

jrhendy

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The Most Knowledgeable One Pocket Player? IMO it is a 3 word answer:
EFREN BATA REYES

Grady said: "he is one the greatest pool minds of this century"
Asked if this guy would have beaten him if he played him in his golden years Ronnie answered: " he probably would have, but he'll be too tired to enjoy it"
I asked Grady 15 years ago why he thought this player is so good and he said: "his incredible creativity" . He also said: " he is such a mild mannered person, but he is a killer on the pool table."
I asked Ernesto the same question that Lenny asked, and he said: Efren, because of his mastery in handling the white ball, no one even comes close.
I watched Efren gamble with a famous pro in Hard Times in Sacramento, $500 a game, giving him the break and 2 balls. The "pro" would break then he'd pick any 2 balls off the table. I have never seen a player with such focus, determination and level of concentration. After 4 hours, the final score was:
Efren: 12 Opponent:2

A well thought of commentator on one of the Accustat tapes said that Efren is no longer allowed to enter Ballkline tournaments in the Philippines. He would hang around until the end of the tournament, then would challenge the winner giving him a spot of 150 balls in a 500 ball game. BTW, Efren says that ballkline is his best game.

I watched with awe Efren shoot a cross side pocket bank playing Mike Siegel early in a strait pool championship match, go 3 rails, break the stack then run 141 balls. To run 141 balls is certainly not a record, but to have the confidence, courage and skill to shoot that shot playing a guy like Mike? How many players do we know would even consider it?

Its for for the above reasons and then some that I think Efren is the most knowledgeable player. He ranks up there with some of the greats. Having said all that, he of course is not unbeatable. No one is. His skill level is no longer as sharp (and we all know why) but he is still a force to be reckoned with.

This is my humble opinion.
Efren and Bustamante will be in Sacramento next week to play in the Chuck Markulis Memorial at Hard Times.

You get a chance to play with two Hall of Famers for a $50 entry fee. Lots of other top players will also be there.

One pocket starts the 11th and 9 ball the 13th. It will be streamed by Andy Chen & POV. Check here or Az for the stream info.
 

Jimmy B

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I would say Tyler Durden, Miller, Dudley, and don't forget The Sidepocket Kid (aka Schofield Kid) would neet to be mentioned as amongst the most elite knowledgeable players in the nation today. I didn't actually say that they would be The Most knowledgeable. They just need to be mentioned....
 

Dudley

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I would say Tyler Durden, Miller, Dudley, and don't forget The Sidepocket Kid (aka Schofield Kid) would neet to be mentioned as amongst the most elite knowledgeable players in the nation today. I didn't actually say that they would be The Most knowledgeable. They just need to be mentioned....
I'm not sure how to take this post... sarcasm??? If it's a serious comment I'm flattered but I don't think it's deserving.

I've been trying to learn the game for a while now but I'm def not a knowledgeable player. Just someone who loves the game and enjoys talking one pocket strategy.

there are subtleties to shot selection when playing that I'm very weak on--> But I'm working on it. :)

There are many players here who out move me by a long shot.

Dud
 

Jimmy B

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I'm not sure how to take this post... sarcasm??? If it's a serious comment I'm flattered but I don't think it's deserving.

I've been trying to learn the game for a while now but I'm def not a knowledgeable player. Just someone who loves the game and enjoys talking one pocket strategy.

there are subtleties to shot selection when playing that I'm very weak on--> But I'm working on it. :)

There are many players here who out move me by a long shot.

Dud

Naw. I didn't mean to be sarcastic. Just some folks I've agreed with or who agreed with me lately on shots and things. I think Miller is into snooker anyway. But I know you guys know the game and it matters not one bit to me if you don't play as good as Efren or Scott or Shane. I know that you know the game, besides that, I'm into enough shit already. Don't want to start more....
 

Dudley

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Naw. I didn't mean to be sarcastic. Just some folks I've agreed with or who agreed with me lately on shots and things. I think Miller is into snooker anyway. But I know you guys know the game and it matters not one bit to me if you don't play as good as Efren or Scott or Shane. I know that you know the game, besides that, I'm into enough shit already. Don't want to start more....
I just wasn't sure what you meant..

Even if it was sarcasm it wouldn't have started anything with me.

My feathers don't get ruffled easily.

thanks for the kind words. :)

Dud
 

Miller

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I would say Tyler Durden, Miller, Dudley, and don't forget The Sidepocket Kid (aka Schofield Kid) would neet to be mentioned as amongst the most elite knowledgeable players in the nation today. I didn't actually say that they would be The Most knowledgeable. They just need to be mentioned....
ha! asshole....:D
 
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