Which option is better?

cincy_kid

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I was going to title this WWYD but really I just want to know of 2 options which would you do and why.

I was able to get out this weekend and play both days (Saturday and Sunday) against a guy I have never played before but he plays pretty good. I was getting 9-7 and probably need 9-6 but I don't mind because we were playing cheap and it's great practice for me.

Anyways, its my shot and I have the bottom right pocket. This shot comes up a lot and I contemplate if its better to bank the 4 ball into the stack and hope one goes and I may win or play off the 4 ball and duck behind the 2 balls by his pocket. This may not be the exact layout in the stack but its close enough. Also, the 4 ball would not bank by the stack clean which is an error in my diagram ;)

Lets say it's 3-1 in balls, his lead. Which is the best shot and why?


 

cincy_kid

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after looking at this diagram if someone else had posted it I would be pretty confident that the shot would be to shoot the 4 ball back to my side bumping into the 1 and/or 2 ball to break some loose on my side and hide the CB behind the 2 balls by his hole.

I will just tell you, I banked the 4 into the stack instead, hid the CB pretty well and there were a few balls by my pocket so it turned out well, but it may have turned out better had I gone with the other option.

I just don't know when its better to do one or the other.
 

wincardona

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You first must evaluate the stack in terms of balls that look like they could be pocketed. If you feel that there's a ball that could easily be pocketed then you must figure out how to get to that ball, or at least figure out if a certain ball has a decent chance of going if your able to hit a specific ball or balls to open up the stack to pocket the ball or another ball. If you can't find a ball that fits into that scenario and you have a shot like the 4ball in this lay out then you're better off playing the cue ball to a lock down position and open up the stack to develop a stronger and more threatening position.

From the diagram it doesn't appear that there is a good chance of making a specific ball or even creating positive action to pocket a ball, however, that doesn't mean a ball won't find it's way into a pocket but if I was the shooter I would bank the 4ball into the stack by following through the 4ball sending the cue ball to the side rail and then behind the two balls positioned by your opponents pocket. If a ball should happen to fall then i'll at least be in a position to further develop my position or possibly score a ball off of the leave. If I don't make a ball (which I figured) then my opponent will be in a tough situation behind the balls by his pocket.

Dr. Bill
 

lll

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I was going to title this WWYD but really I just want to know of 2 options which would you do and why.

I was able to get out this weekend and play both days (Saturday and Sunday) against a guy I have never played before but he plays pretty good. I was getting 9-7 and probably need 9-6 but I don't mind because we were playing cheap and it's great practice for me.

Anyways, its my shot and I have the bottom right pocket. This shot comes up a lot and I contemplate if its better to bank the 4 ball into the stack and hope one goes and I may win or play off the 4 ball and duck behind the 2 balls by his pocket. This may not be the exact layout in the stack but its close enough. Also, the 4 ball would not bank by the stack clean which is an error in my diagram ;)

Lets say it's 3-1 in balls, his lead. Which is the best shot and why?


imho
you never want to shoot a shot hoping one goes unless you are really in a desparate situation which you are not in here
 

cincy_kid

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You first must evaluate the stack in terms of balls that look like they could be pocketed. If you feel that there's a ball that could easily be pocketed then you must figure out how to get to that ball, or at least figure out if a certain ball has a decent chance of going if your able to hit a specific ball or balls to open up the stack to pocket the ball or another ball. If you can't find a ball that fits into that scenario and you have a shot like the 4ball in this lay out then you're better off playing the cue ball to a lock down position and open up the stack to develop a stronger and more threatening position.

From the diagram it doesn't appear that there is a good chance of making a specific ball or even creating positive action to pocket a ball, however, that doesn't mean a ball won't find it's way into a pocket but if I was the shooter I would bank the 4ball into the stack by following through the 4ball sending the cue ball to the side rail and then behind the two balls positioned by your opponents pocket. If a ball should happen to fall then i'll at least be in a position to further develop my position or possibly score a ball off of the leave. If I don't make a ball (which I figured) then my opponent will be in a tough situation behind the balls by his pocket.

Dr. Bill

Dr Bill: Thank you, that was my gut feeling when I was in the position but for some reason I decided to bank the 4 ball instead. It may have been laying a little differently in that pushing through the 4 ball would have still gotten the CB behind the 2 balls but the 4 ball itself would not have run into the stack but would have gone above the stack just to my side rail.I blame that on my poor diagram skills :)

Also, Larry, I don't feel like banking the 4 into the stack is a desperation shot because both options are basically playing a safe shot by re-arranging some furniture and keeping the opponent from making a ball in their pocket or taking one away from your own pocket. When I said "hoping one goes", its so I can run out and win the game, not so much "hope it goes or I sell out". Correct or am I missing something?

Thanks for the replies guys!
 

Frank Almanza

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In this situation why not go for the bank combo on the two ball and if you make it you've got a shot on the one ball with a chance to get on the four ball. If you don't make the two ball then now you have two balls by your pocket.
I don't understand.jpg
 

cincy_kid

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In this situation why not go for the bank combo on the two ball and if you make it you've got a shot on the one ball with a chance to get on the four ball. If you don't make the two ball then now you have two balls by your pocket.
View attachment 14914
Yea that's a good shot Frank but it wasn't available. I mentioned in my post that I had poor diagram skills. So not only would the 4 ball not bank past the stack into the 2 but also by crossing it to your side it would not have run into any other balls.

thanks and sorry, my next diagram will be more accurate!:sorry
 

petie

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In this situation why not go for the bank combo on the two ball and if you make it you've got a shot on the one ball with a chance to get on the four ball. If you don't make the two ball then now you have two balls by your pocket.
View attachment 14914
This is my shot except I would leave the cue ball on the dot of the 'i' in the writing on the table. From here you can make the one and break the rack. If you miss the bank combo, you are still safe.
 

vapros

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Is there any reason why you cannot cross the 4 ball and bank it toward the 1 and 2 and still go into the safe corner? You mention 'playing off' the 4 ball, but no reference to banking it for a positive result for this shot.
 

onepockethacker

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In this situation taking into consideration about what you said about your diagram I would cross the 4 ball and duck behind the 2 balls by his pocket... If the cue ball was on the spot( meaning like 2 or 3 inches to the right) I would bank the 4 ball into the stack and send the cue ball up table.. where you have the cue ball in the diagram you cant get the cue ball up table
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Anyways, its my shot and I have the bottom right pocket. This shot comes up a lot and I contemplate if its better to bank the 4 ball into the stack and hope one goes and I may win or play off the 4 ball and duck behind the 2 balls by his pocket. This may not be the exact layout in the stack but its close enough. Also, the 4 ball would not bank by the stack clean which is an error in my diagram ;)

Lets say it's 3-1 in balls, his lead. Which is the best shot and why?


Play all cueball and shake something loose on your side (whichever ball it is). He'll have a really tough shot if you get the cueball behind those two balls.

wwyd.png
 

lll

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In this situation taking into consideration about what you said about your diagram I would cross the 4 ball and duck behind the 2 balls by his pocket... If the cue ball was on the spot( meaning like 2 or 3 inches to the right) I would bank the 4 ball into the stack and send the cue ball up table.. where you have the cue ball in the diagram you cant get the cue ball up table
where up table are sending the cue ball??
from there your opponent can see the ball s by you pocket
why do that???:confused::confused:
 

cincy_kid

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Is there any reason why you cannot cross the 4 ball and bank it toward the 1 and 2 and still go into the safe corner? You mention 'playing off' the 4 ball, but no reference to banking it for a positive result for this shot.
The 4 ball cross does not hit anything if you are putting the CB behind the 2 balls by his pocket. My diagram's off and the 4 ball would actually go higher above the stack.
 

cincy_kid

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In this situation taking into consideration about what you said about your diagram I would cross the 4 ball and duck behind the 2 balls by his pocket... If the cue ball was on the spot( meaning like 2 or 3 inches to the right) I would bank the 4 ball into the stack and send the cue ball up table.. where you have the cue ball in the diagram you cant get the cue ball up table
Yea, the duck was the shot..I played the wrong one.

I am curious on Larry's question though. If you play the CB up table wont your opponent have the chance to take balls away form your pocket and get safe instead of hiding behind the stack?

Thanks for the replies!
 

cincy_kid

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Play all cueball and shake something loose on your side (whichever ball it is). He'll have a really tough shot if you get the cueball behind those two balls.

View attachment 14917
Yep, great shot Dennis.

For sure if it layed exactly how my diagram showed but still even if the 4 misses the 1 and 2 the duck is probably best.

Watching a lot of the pros on play on video it seems like ducking behind a ball by your opponents hole is almost always the shot if you can do it. I do it some now but am going to start looking for it more.
 

LSJohn

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I was going to title this WWYD but really I just want to know of 2 options which would you do and why.

I was able to get out this weekend and play both days (Saturday and Sunday) against a guy I have never played before but he plays pretty good. I was getting 9-7 and probably need 9-6 but I don't mind because we were playing cheap and it's great practice for me.

Anyways, its my shot and I have the bottom right pocket. This shot comes up a lot and I contemplate if its better to bank the 4 ball into the stack and hope one goes and I may win or play off the 4 ball and duck behind the 2 balls by his pocket. This may not be the exact layout in the stack but its close enough. Also, the 4 ball would not bank by the stack clean which is an error in my diagram ;)

Lets say it's 3-1 in balls, his lead. Which is the best shot and why?


I have two thoughts: If the 2 were that far from your pocket on the long rail I'd go behind the balls by his pocket; Since none of the balls in the stack look like they go for you, mixing them up in this case has more value than if at least one did (especially the 3 or one that could be comfortably shot from where you'd leave whitey if you banked into the stack or around the stack . (Also, generally speaking, going behind balls by his pocket isn't much more than a one-inning safety if you don't have anything to shoot if he just moves whitey up-table.... I guess that's a third thought.) :)
 

NH Steve

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I am also in the camp of sending whitey behind those balls near your opponent's pocket while bringing the 4-ball over to your own side.

Other considerations that come to mind, given that your diagram is only hypothetical:

  1. Is there a sweet spot to send the 4 (for example) into the stack that has a ball or two angled nicely to head near your hole? If so that would be a plus for that option.
  2. Is there still going to be a ball on your opponent's side that could bank straight back? That to me would be a deterrent for going behind the two balls, because if nothing goes well from up table on my own side, my opponent would have the free straight back to get out from behind the trap.
  3. If you elect to bank toward your hole (knowing it does not go clean anyway, so basically just re-positioning the 4), are there likely to be clean cross corner bank options left for your opponent (like the 1 & 2 in your diagram)? That would be a big reason to go behind the balls near your opponent's pocket -- or up table like hacker mentioned.

I am sure there are other considerations too...
 

onepockethacker

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where up table are sending the cue ball??
from there your opponent can see the ball s by you pocket
why do that???:confused::confused:
Larry if the cue ball was on the spot you could bank the 4 ball into the 3/14 balls and EVERY ball is going to your side of the table and a few by your hole.. leave the cue ball in the upper left hand corner pocket and let him deal with that.. The balls are set up like a picket fence Larry.. all the balls are going to your side
 

lll

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Larry if the cue ball was on the spot you could bank the 4 ball into the 3/14 balls and EVERY ball is going to your side of the table and a few by your hole.. leave the cue ball in the upper left hand corner pocket and let him deal with that.. The balls are set up like a picket fence Larry.. all the balls are going to your side
rob
thanks for the explanation to what should have been obvious
sometimes i am alittle dense....:eek::eek:
 

cincy_kid

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I have two thoughts: If the 2 were that far from your pocket on the long rail I'd go behind the balls by his pocket; Since none of the balls in the stack look like they go for you, mixing them up in this case has more value than if at least one did (especially the 3 or one that could be comfortably shot from where you'd leave whitey if you banked into the stack or around the stack . (Also, generally speaking, going behind balls by his pocket isn't much more than a one-inning safety if you don't have anything to shoot if he just moves whitey up-table.... I guess that's a third thought.) :)
Good point, thanks John ~
 
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