What Are Your Thoughts

stedyfred

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Apr 13, 2012
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ref the hard break in one pocket? Is there a place for it or should a revision of rules be considered similar to that which prevents a nine ball player from soft breaking his opponent (4 balls contacting rail). Ask yourself how you would feel if 15-20% of players at next yrs DCC used a version of the hard break; are you ok with that or not?
 

gulfportdoc

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Let 'em fire away. They usually will not make a ball on the break, and most often I'll then have a shot to my hole. After a regular break I'd only have a shot to my hole 5-10% of the time. And for the guys who want to speed up the length of one-pocket games (I'm not one of them), they'd love it.

~Doc
 

LSJohn

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I'd hate it, but I wouldn't legislate against it.

I don't think I have to worry about it anyway. If Deuel couldn't figure it out, I doubt anyone can.
 

lfigueroa

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ref the hard break in one pocket? Is there a place for it or should a revision of rules be considered similar to that which prevents a nine ball player from soft breaking his opponent (4 balls contacting rail). Ask yourself how you would feel if 15-20% of players at next yrs DCC used a version of the hard break; are you ok with that or not?

I would have to say that if a player -- to include any top pro -- wanted to hard break against me, my response would be: goferit (please).

Lou Figueroa
 

gulfportdoc

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I think if the full break had any merit in 1P, you'd see more guys using it. It was a very interesting tactic by Cory Duell in his match against Daulton years back. He admittedly had very little one-pocket knowledge, so he knew that his only chance was to be able to run 8's and out. He may have won that match-- I can't recall. But I do remember the look on Daulton's face when Cory whacked the break. He was shocked, disdainful, and he looked like he'd been dissed.:)

~Doc
 

straightback

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I think if the full break had any merit in 1P, you'd see more guys using it. It was a very interesting tactic by Cory Duell in his match against Daulton years back. He admittedly had very little one-pocket knowledge, so he knew that his only chance was to be able to run 8's and out. He may have won that match-- I can't recall. But I do remember the look on Daulton's face when Cory whacked the break. He was shocked, disdainful, and he looked like he'd been dissed.:)

~Doc
Even better was Grady's remarks (Ervolino was also in the booth). Grady was a penchant for three's, meaning when he made a remark, he would use three verbs or adjectives. I think he said something like, "I'm surprised, shocked even mortified at the likes of this." I always enjoyed Grady's learned commentary.

Corey did win that match.
 

Deeman

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No rule changes needed so I think it would be great for us weaker players to have a pro break hard. :) There is a great tradition to one pocket that remains constant. If it were rule changes, one pocket could go the way of nine ball! Yes, I know many like Texas Express rules but I enjoyed nine ball a lot more in the 1960's than what we do now.

Perhaps making guys break hard could be a good spot! My luck they would make a ball and have s shot every time!

DeeMan
 

Drop Pocket

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Wouldn't you view the hard break as more of a gimmick? I side rail break :sorry and have great results.
I'm curious. Are your opponents your speed, weaker, or stronger? I don't think I've ever heard of a "good" player using this break and I've never seen anyone use it against any body who knew the game at all. The side-rail break is mentioned in George Fels' Mastering Pool with the caveat that it doesn't move a lot of balls toward your pocket. I would think anyone who kicks well could get out of this break fairly easily but I confess I've never played against someone using it or even seen it played.
 

straightback

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Wouldn't you view the hard break as more of a gimmick? I side rail break :sorry and have great results.
While I welcome any opponent to use either, I will agree with you that the hard break is just a desperate move for someone who can't move.

The side rail kick break, however, can yield dividends in limited circumstances against certain players.

Indeed, it takes a long time to fully master the tried and true conventional break, as well as to learn the adjustments for new cloth. If someone isn't comfortable with this break, then the kick break might be the way to go.
 

u12armresl

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I'm just not a ball runner, and I need to work on that part of my game.

In trying to figure out who to take lessons from Adam Wheeler has stood at the top of the list IMHO. Gotta go to Orlando though, but for the kind of help I think he may be able to give me, it's probably worth it.
 

androd

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Who cares ? when it's your break do whatever you wish. :frus
Rod.
 

spiderwebcomm

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I would have to say that if a player -- to include any top pro -- wanted to hard break against me, my response would be: goferit (please).

Lou Figueroa
My question would be:

If Chris Gentile couldn't fade Danny's game breaking hard and wide open, are you implying you could have? You would have zero chance beating Danny with him breaking hard and wide-open.

I think I understand the point of what Mr. Stedyfred is trying to say. Just for fun, I practiced a hard break just to see if I could run the 8-and-out from there and believe me.... it's not a gimme-putt he way many of you are implying. In fact, if you DON'T run the 8-and-out from that opening salvo, you are now presented with a scenario where the guy who has EXPLOSIVE firepower no longer has to "move" against you and can now start lobbing balls in at will at a rate that's MUCH higher than yours.

So, just to clarify Stedy's original post --- if I was playing someone who never ever missed and banked like God, but had a more limited understanding of one pocket -- the answer for me would be: Of course I don't want them to break wide open because if I don't get the hell out of the rack, I'm going to get dominated from there because all of the finer knowledge aspects of one pocket disappear and I'm now faced with a cannonball-run-like shootout that I probably couldn't win.

It's a loaded question and the answer isn't "GOFERIT" with pros with elite-level firepower when you yourself do NOT possess such firepower. The proof was in the puddin' and Danny seemed to show that well against Chris.

Figgie--- do you think you could have beat Danny with him breaking open like that? Chris couldn't "lock-up" those games, so I'm curious if you still stand beside your conviction. I dunno... maybe you're a better pool player than Chris, for all I know.
 

androd

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My question would be:

If Chris Gentile couldn't fade Danny's game breaking hard and wide open, are you implying you could have? You would have zero chance beating Danny with him breaking hard and wide-open.

I think I understand the point of what Mr. Stedyfred is trying to say. Just for fun, I practiced a hard break just to see if I could run the 8-and-out from there and believe me.... it's not a gimme-putt he way many of you are implying. In fact, if you DON'T run the 8-and-out from that opening salvo, you are now presented with a scenario where the guy who has EXPLOSIVE firepower no longer has to "move" against you and can now start lobbing balls in at will at a rate that's MUCH higher than yours.

So, just to clarify Stedy's original post --- if I was playing someone who never ever missed and banked like God, but had a more limited understanding of one pocket -- the answer for me would be: Of course I don't want them to break wide open because if I don't get the hell out of the rack, I'm going to get dominated from there because all of the finer knowledge aspects of one pocket disappear and I'm now faced with a cannonball-run-like shootout that I probably couldn't win.

It's a loaded question and the answer isn't "GOFERIT" with pros with elite-level firepower when you yourself do NOT possess such firepower. The proof was in the puddin' and Danny seemed to show that well against Chris.

Figgie--- do you think you could have beat Danny with him breaking open like that? Chris couldn't "lock-up" those games, so I'm curious if you still stand beside your conviction. I dunno... maybe you're a better pool player than Chris, for all I know.
Are you saying Danny was breaking wide open against Chris ?
 

straightback

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My question would be:

If Chris Gentile couldn't fade Danny's game breaking hard and wide open, are you implying you could have? You would have zero chance beating Danny with him breaking hard and wide-open.

I think I understand the point of what Mr. Stedyfred is trying to say. Just for fun, I practiced a hard break just to see if I could run the 8-and-out from there and believe me.... it's not a gimme-putt he way many of you are implying. In fact, if you DON'T run the 8-and-out from that opening salvo, you are now presented with a scenario where the guy who has EXPLOSIVE firepower no longer has to "move" against you and can now start lobbing balls in at will at a rate that's MUCH higher than yours.

So, just to clarify Stedy's original post --- if I was playing someone who never ever missed and banked like God, but had a more limited understanding of one pocket -- the answer for me would be: Of course I don't want them to break wide open because if I don't get the hell out of the rack, I'm going to get dominated from there because all of the finer knowledge aspects of one pocket disappear and I'm now faced with a cannonball-run-like shootout that I probably couldn't win.

It's a loaded question and the answer isn't "GOFERIT" with pros with elite-level firepower when you yourself do NOT possess such firepower. The proof was in the puddin' and Danny seemed to show that well against Chris.

Figgie--- do you think you could have beat Danny with him breaking open like that? Chris couldn't "lock-up" those games, so I'm curious if you still stand beside your conviction. I dunno... maybe you're a better pool player than Chris, for all I know.
If the pros adopted your logic, then every time they were the favorite, they'd break wide open. However, they do not, so they have not.
 

spiderwebcomm

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If the pros adopted your logic, then every time they were the favorite, they'd break wide open. However, they do not, so they have not.
Being the "favorite" isn't the determining factor. The determining factor is whether or not you feel you're the favorite to make everything and anything you shoot at.

Mind you, don't misinterpret what I'm saying. I'm not saying "open" is the move at ALL. All I'm saying is it changes the dynamic of the game for someone who possesses HEAVY firepower against someone who possesses superior knowledge and movement. That's all I'm saying. It's soooo not cut-and-dry the way many of you have positioned it.

For example, some of you have been playing one hole for many, many decades... prob as long as Danny Smith has been alive and likely possess superior knowledge of the game. That said, I'd bet my entire life savings that he'd destroy 99% of you while breaking open.

That, in itself, is the core discussion.
 

lfigueroa

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My question would be:

If Chris Gentile couldn't fade Danny's game breaking hard and wide open, are you implying you could have? You would have zero chance beating Danny with him breaking hard and wide-open.

I think I understand the point of what Mr. Stedyfred is trying to say. Just for fun, I practiced a hard break just to see if I could run the 8-and-out from there and believe me.... it's not a gimme-putt he way many of you are implying. In fact, if you DON'T run the 8-and-out from that opening salvo, you are now presented with a scenario where the guy who has EXPLOSIVE firepower no longer has to "move" against you and can now start lobbing balls in at will at a rate that's MUCH higher than yours.

So, just to clarify Stedy's original post --- if I was playing someone who never ever missed and banked like God, but had a more limited understanding of one pocket -- the answer for me would be: Of course I don't want them to break wide open because if I don't get the hell out of the rack, I'm going to get dominated from there because all of the finer knowledge aspects of one pocket disappear and I'm now faced with a cannonball-run-like shootout that I probably couldn't win.

It's a loaded question and the answer isn't "GOFERIT" with pros with elite-level firepower when you yourself do NOT possess such firepower. The proof was in the puddin' and Danny seemed to show that well against Chris.

Figgie--- do you think you could have beat Danny with him breaking open like that? Chris couldn't "lock-up" those games, so I'm curious if you still stand beside your conviction. I dunno... maybe you're a better pool player than Chris, for all I know.

The "conviction" I stand by is that I would win more games against him if he broke wide open than if he played a traditional opening. And since the only time I'd be playing him would be in a tournament with short races, I like him using a wide open break.

Hard to believe I have to explain that, even to you.

Lou Figueroa
 
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