Unifying Format/Seniors 2019

Island Drive

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Food for Thought 8 tables were used @ Bogies

Food for Thought 8 tables were used @ Bogies

Correct me if I'm wrong, but originally WE/the players wanted X amount of entries, yet the room owner opened up the count. Seeing as the room owner has ALLOT of say in the venue, there was NO push back, which is right, so we had more entries than initially. Setting our time lines differently, and playing 1st round after the Calcutta seem to be a natural. Allot of Us at this age go to bed Earlier, and get UP very early, as we did in our working years. Those having early flights out on Monday, were unable to watch the finals, I would of liked to have stayed up. I still think the finals, at our age should be a race to 3, WHY does it have to be 4? It's old school thinking, like no one going out the first day. Play entire first round after the calcutta and no one will be knocked out the first day. When we start play the first day at 8:30 pm, tell the players that the next round will start @ 11pm and those guys can go take a nap and come back fresh. Have all losers play the last rounds the second day, and those who get knocked out late Friday, can match up seeing as the round has ended, it's a 24 hr room.

Food for thought....
 
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jtompilot

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The auction was Thursday -- matches started Friday.

The easiest thing to change would simply be to play out more of the one-loss bracket that first day. I really don't think it would be that much of an issue for most players if they got eliminated the first day. Some might like it (as opposed to getting eliminated the next morning I mean). Most of this crew -- like our members tournaments -- love hanging around and visiting and also sweating matches and matching up. I don't think it would matter a lot if more of us were eliminated that first day, either for the senior event or our member tournament!! I know I'm there for duration no matter what personally, but I saw many players stick around even though they were eliminated.

Actually -- if we are really worried about players being eliminated the first day, just hold a 2nd chance tournament!! Just don't hold the second chance tournament until you truly have tables available without slowing down the main event.

The duration of any of these tournaments is a basic function of how many rounds there are, and how long they take. There are more one-loss rounds than there are winners rounds, and that to me is why you HAVE to go ahead and play those early one-loss rounds as soon as you can if you want to keep your overall schedule moving. Even if that means a couple of players might end up going home early. They might stay too.

Simple as that -- except the other thing is having a back up plan in place in the event you have any real slow matches. :D:D
For the players that get knocked out early that gives them a chance to watch more matches or as tables open get in action. The good thing about action is you don’t have to wait hours before you play again:)
 

mr3cushion

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For the players that get knocked out early that gives them a chance to watch more matches or as tables open get in action. The good thing about action is you don’t have to wait hours before you play again:)
Jim; the absolute good thing about the RR brackets format is,

#1. In each flight, there will ALWAYS be 2 players from EACH flight at a table playing. Whether it in the, Pre-lims or semi-finals!

#2. You don't have to wait for losers or winners side matches to finish. Consequently, matches are ALWAYS being played!
 

crabbcatjohn

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For the players that get knocked out early that gives them a chance to watch more matches or as tables open get in action. The good thing about action is you don’t have to wait hours before you play again:)
The only problem with that is if they wanted to play more pool the next three days with the lack of extra tables they would have to go to another room or play you...lol
 

cincy_kid

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Also, just one more point about the event being a "Bogies" event (from my perspective only), Jeff and those involved in getting it together wanted "ANY" senior 65+ or 70+ to be qualified to play, not just onepocket.org members who were qualified by age so it was different than our "member only" tourneys. You just had to be old enough.

I do agree though at some point it would be neat for onepocket.org to try and help "sponsor" the event or be involved at some level if we can. Even though it may be always held at Bogies and always be any senior 65+ can play, it would still be cool to have it associated with onepocket.org somehow. Heck, a lot of people probably already thought it was! :)

I know I cant wait to start playing in them!
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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One important fact that I just learned about Bogies is that they are the ones that wanted to open it up and not have a pre-set number of entries. Therefore, it seems we might have some leverage in suggesting an extra day.

As for Bogies, the more players the better, it's business! The longer the players are there, the better. I think the tournament will just grow and grow since it is a fairly new tournament, and quite unique.

mr3cushion has brought up RR play, whereas it does not hold up tournaments as much, for you can play around slower matches. This seems like almost violating sacred ground for 3/3 for the diehards.

thanks to all for stepping up, this thread is gaining ground!
 

Jeff sparks

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I have talked at length with Rizzo about next years seniors tournament, and we are both in total agreement that something has to be done to finish the tournament at a reasonable hour Sunday evening...

I didn’t get to play this year, darnnit, but I was there everyday for at least 8 hours and watched a lot of quality one pocket, I had fun visiting with the gang and meeting several new people who are members here at OP.ORG and others who are not members, but came to play in the event...

I came away from the experience very pleased and happy, I did however find myself wishing some of the matches would have been completed in a more timely fashion, but hey, it is what it is...

I witnessed a lot of old people having a good time, and for those of you who haven’t quite reached your “Golden Years” let me tell you, having a good time is high on all our lists! Priorities change as you age, horizontal fun is now a good nights sleep, and vertical fun is much more limited... :)

I wake up early everyday, ( 5:00 AM ), I am usually up and moving by 5:30 and fully awake by 6:00. I usually go to bed early also, and am out of it by 10:00 PM... However I can stay up late if interested in something, like a good game of one pocket...

I feel that a lot of the seniors have similar sleeping habits, so my recommendation to Rizzo for next years Senior tournament will be to start the tournament on Thursday at 3:00 PM and play a complete winners side round and a complete losers side round... By that I mean however many players are entered there will be 16 players left on the winners side and 16 players on the losers side regardless of byes and whether you played a match or not...

Now on Friday I would think the early scheduled matches could start at 10:00 without any problem, possibly earlier... Play continues for however long it takes to get to 4 players on the winners side and 8 players on the losers side if that works out bracket wise? I’m not a bracket guy, but 12 players left to start Saturdays play seems like a good number...

Saturday play could start at 10:00 and play down to the winner of the hot seat and the 2 players left on the losers side... 3 players left to start Sunday’s finals...

Sunday would only have 3 matches if a using a true dbl. elimination format, or only two matches if it’s a single race to 4 for the title, and should finish early evening somewhere around 8:00...

If this scenario will work ( need the help of bracket gurus ) I will run it by Rizzo and see if they are willing to do that for next year...

Will this work out bracket wise, and if not, could someone fluent in brackets please do the math associated with this basic format and come up with a solution similar to the numbers here...

Speaking solely about the Bogies Senior tournament next year...
 

mr3cushion

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I have talked at length with Rizzo about next years seniors tournament, and we are both in total agreement that something has to be done to finish the tournament at a reasonable hour Sunday evening...

I didn’t get to play this year, darnnit, but I was there everyday for at least 8 hours and watched a lot of quality one pocket, I had fun visiting with the gang and meeting several new people who are members here at OP.ORG and others who are not members, but came to play in the event...

I came away from the experience very pleased and happy, I did however find myself wishing some of the matches would have been completed in a more timely fashion, but hey, it is what it is...

I witnessed a lot of old people having a good time, and for those of you who haven’t quite reached your “Golden Years” let me tell you, having a good time is high on all our lists! Priorities change as you age, horizontal fun is now a good nights sleep, and vertical fun is much more limited... :)

I wake up early everyday, ( 5:00 AM ), I am usually up and moving by 5:30 and fully awake by 6:00. I usually go to bed early also, and am out of it by 10:00 PM... However I can stay up late if interested in something, like a good game of one pocket...

I feel that a lot of the seniors have similar sleeping habits, so my recommendation to Rizzo for next years Senior tournament will be to start the tournament on Thursday at 3:00 PM and play a complete winners side round and a complete losers side round... By that I mean however many players are entered there will be 16 players left on the winners side and 16 players on the losers side regardless of byes and whether you played a match or not...

Now on Friday I would think the early scheduled matches could start at 10:00 without any problem, possibly earlier... Play continues for however long it takes to get to 4 players on the winners side and 8 players on the losers side if that works out bracket wise? I’m not a bracket guy, but 12 players left to start Saturdays play seems like a good number...

Saturday play could start at 10:00 and play down to the winner of the hot seat and the 2 players left on the losers side... 3 players left to start Sunday’s finals...

Sunday would only have 3 matches if a using a true dbl. elimination format, or only two matches if it’s a single race to 4 for the title, and should finish early evening somewhere around 8:00...

If this scenario will work ( need the help of bracket gurus ) I will run it by Rizzo and see if they are willing to do that for next year...

Will this work out bracket wise, and if not, could someone fluent in brackets please do the math associated with this basic format and come up with a solution similar to the numbers here...

Speaking solely about the Bogies Senior tournament next year...
Jeff; I posted this site before:

https://compusport.us/

The specialize in formats for any type of tournament. They charge, $1.00 per player!

Chk them out.
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Jeff, coming to an agreement with Rizzo, it is excellent to hear you both are on the same page that something needs to be done. Thanks for taking such an active role.

We have mr3cushion that has offered up a site for doing brackets, I feel this could be very valuable at the time of the tournament. And if you had a set number of entries then a bracket could be worked out. You might just have to work out a number of bracket scenarios based on potentially variable # of entries. Miller and Crabbcatjohn have much insight into brackets, also Cory, and now Steve has also been working the brackets, and his is based upon 32 players at the moment.

For me I feel the tournament is only going to grow once a working model is developed that does not exhaust the players, and finishes on time.

Since the entry numbers are unknown and currently we have a 3/3 format, I would suggest having the players meeting Wednesday night, Calcutta, and bracket draw. That way, play can start early Thursday 9am or 10am. My thinking is; if your going to add a day then add a full day, "and that way play can "end" at a reasonable hour on each day". I can not understate how important this is for 65+, and how much the tournament could potential grow because of it.

Another reason for starting early Thursday is that the Bogies tables are not probably in such demand early in the day as they would be later in the day on Thursday.

I trust the guys will get in there and work with you on the bracket, so you can present a workable package to Rizzo! thanks!
 

Jeff sparks

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Jeff, coming to an agreement with Rizzo, it is excellent to hear you both are on the same page that something needs to be done. Thanks for taking such an active role.

We have mr3cushion that has offered up a site for doing brackets, I feel this could be very valuable at the time of the tournament. And if you had a set number of entries then a bracket could be worked out. You might just have to work out a number of bracket scenarios based on potentially variable # of entries. Miller and Crabbcatjohn have much insight into brackets, also Cory, and now Steve has also been working the brackets, and his is based upon 32 players at the moment.

For me I feel the tournament is only going to grow once a working model is developed that does not exhaust the players, and finishes on time.

Since the entry numbers are unknown and currently we have a 3/3 format, I would suggest having the players meeting Wednesday night, Calcutta, and bracket draw. That way, play can start early Thursday 9am or 10am. My thinking is; if your going to add a day then add a full day, "and that way play can "end" at a reasonable hour on each day". I can not understate how important this is for 65+, and how much the tournament could potential grow because of it.

Another reason for starting early Thursday is that the Bogies tables are not probably in such demand early in the day as they would be later in the day on Thursday.

I trust the guys will get in there and work with you on the bracket, so you can present a workable package to Rizzo! thanks!
For me, the Wednesday afternoon players meeting and Calcutta works fine... Starting the tournament early Thursday morning and having a full extra day of play will solve the entire issue of running late on Sunday, even with over 32 players...

I will talk it out with Rizzo and see if they are willing to dedicate the extra day to the tournament and still add the $3000.00 to the prize pool, pay the TD, not charge green fees, give all the Calcutta money and entire prize pool money back to the players, and feed us all again everyday... By now, they have had a chance to see how the financial side played out and should be able to make a decision based on that and the fact that it’s a bit of a feather in their cap since at present, it’s the only one pocket event of its kind anywhere in the United States...

I’m not sure whether the added day will hinder overall participation, but I wouldn’t think so... Every year we have lost a few and gained a few players and so far the gain has outrun the loss, as we had 38 players in this years event, an all time high...

Hopefully Bogies will host it again next year and agree to add the extra day...

Then just a standard 48 player bracket will work fine...
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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For me, the Wednesday afternoon players meeting and Calcutta works fine... Starting the tournament early Thursday morning and having a full extra day of play will solve the entire issue of running late on Sunday, even with over 32 players...

I will talk it out with Rizzo and see if they are willing to dedicate the extra day to the tournament and still add the $3000.00 to the prize pool, pay the TD, not charge green fees, give all the Calcutta money and entire prize pool money back to the players, and feed us all again everyday... By now, they have had a chance to see how the financial side played out and should be able to make a decision based on that and the fact that it’s a bit of a feather in their cap since at present, it’s the only one pocket event of its kind anywhere in the United States...

I’m not sure whether the added day will hinder overall participation, but I wouldn’t think so... Every year we have lost a few and gained a few players and so far the gain has outrun the loss, as we had 38 players in this years event, an all time high...

Hopefully Bogies will host it again next year and agree to add the extra day...

Then just a standard 48 player bracket will work fine...
Wow, Bogies really takes care of your tournament. I would like to see a $25.00 green fee, and that way it will go a long ways towards the $3,000 added. This fee would not cover match up play! I think a week day like a Thursday which maybe slow for them anyway, might be welcomed, maybe work in the use of more tables in the early morning of Thursday, lol. thanks, again!
 

crabbcatjohn

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For me, the Wednesday afternoon players meeting and Calcutta works fine... Starting the tournament early Thursday morning and having a full extra day of play will solve the entire issue of running late on Sunday, even with over 32 players...

I will talk it out with Rizzo and see if they are willing to dedicate the extra day to the tournament and still add the $3000.00 to the prize pool, pay the TD, not charge green fees, give all the Calcutta money and entire prize pool money back to the players, and feed us all again everyday... By now, they have had a chance to see how the financial side played out and should be able to make a decision based on that and the fact that it’s a bit of a feather in their cap since at present, it’s the only one pocket event of its kind anywhere in the United States...

I’m not sure whether the added day will hinder overall participation, but I wouldn’t think so... Every year we have lost a few and gained a few players and so far the gain has outrun the loss, as we had 38 players in this years event, an all time high...

Hopefully Bogies will host it again next year and agree to add the extra day...

Then just a standard 48 player bracket will work fine...
You'll have to start Thursday early to make up the extra day for sure.
.
 

Island Drive

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Sudden Death

Sudden Death

For me, the Wednesday afternoon players meeting and Calcutta works fine... Starting the tournament early Thursday morning and having a full extra day of play will solve the entire issue of running late on Sunday, even with over 32 players...

I will talk it out with Rizzo and see if they are willing to dedicate the extra day to the tournament and still add the $3000.00 to the prize pool, pay the TD, not charge green fees, give all the Calcutta money and entire prize pool money back to the players, and feed us all again everyday... By now, they have had a chance to see how the financial side played out and should be able to make a decision based on that and the fact that it’s a bit of a feather in their cap since at present, it’s the only one pocket event of its kind anywhere in the United States...

I’m not sure whether the added day will hinder overall participation, but I wouldn’t think so... Every year we have lost a few and gained a few players and so far the gain has outrun the loss, as we had 38 players in this years event, an all time high...

Hopefully Bogies will host it again next year and agree to add the extra day...

Then just a standard 48 player bracket will work fine...
I think it's Very important to set a Cap on player count FIRST with Bogies, because of their table count. As this thing grows (it will) the numbers could easily reach 64, that could force us to move to a larger room....or could we start it on Thur. and finish up on Sun.? I still think a race to 3 final should be considered.

Better yet, since we're hard wired to THINK we have to have a Dbl/elim final, or a LONGER race final, at our ages, lets change gears.

Remember we did the dbl elim two years ago....and then this year it went LONG again.

We could even do race to 2 finals, kinda of like a Sudden Death....which we're all one step away from Anyway.

The room owner also needs to be aware of this head count, and also has to give up his room one more night. If this is the case, I think a little off the top from the calcutta fund$ (not 10%) should be taken, and given to the room owner to offset his dollar loss from those 8 tables for Thur.
 

Jeff sparks

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I think it's Very important to set a Cap on player count FIRST with Bogies, because of their table count. As this thing grows (it will) the numbers could easily reach 64, that could force us to move to a larger room....or could we start it on Thur. and finish up on Sun.? I still think a race to 3 final should be considered.

Better yet, since we're hard wired to THINK we have to have a Dbl/elim final, or a LONGER race final, at our ages, lets change gears.

Remember we did the dbl elim two years ago....and then this year it went LONG again.

We could even do race to 2 finals, kinda of like a Sudden Death....which we're all one step away from Anyway.

The room owner also needs to be aware of this head count, and also has to give up his room one more night. If this is the case, I think a little off the top from the calcutta fund$ (not 10%) should be taken, and given to the room owner to offset his dollar loss from those 8 tables for Thur.
I’m for a single race to 4 in the final, winner of the hot seat gets the first break...Of course this could be modified by the two finalists to a race to 3 if they both agreed they were to tired to play the race to 4...

I talked with John this morning and as politely as I could, I ask him if the numbers were in on how they did for the tournament... He said that he was sure that they had lost a little money, but that Cody enjoyed doing it for the players... I asked him what he thought about giving up the room for another full day,
( Thursday ) and he said he would talk it over with the owner...

Maybe next year we could chip in $30.00 each for green fees to help offset the extra day and smooth out some of the lost revenue for the 4 days we are using all his 9’ tables... Wouldn’t bother me... just a thought...

Bill, I wouldn’t bet on this thing growing much beyond 40 players, ever... We will lose some that played this year and pick up some in 2019 that have not played in one yet, but I doubt it will ever exceed 40ish players... If it does, a 42 player cap could be implemented...
 

mr3cushion

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I’m for a single race to 4 in the final, winner of the hot seat gets the first break...Of course this could be modified by the two finalists to a race to 3 if they both agreed they were to tired to play the race to 4...

I talked with John this morning and as politely as I could, I ask him if the numbers were in on how they did for the tournament... He said that he was sure that they had lost a little money, but that Cody enjoyed doing it for the players... I asked him what he thought about giving up the room for another full day,
( Thursday ) and he said he would talk it over with the owner...

Maybe next year we could chip in $30.00 each for green fees to help offset the extra day and smooth out some of the lost revenue for the 4 days we are using all his 9’ tables... Wouldn’t bother me... just a thought...

Bill, I wouldn’t bet on this thing growing much beyond 40 players, ever... We will lose some that played this year and pick up some in 2019 that have not played in one yet, but I doubt it will ever exceed 40ish players... If it does, a 42 player cap could be implemented...
Jeff; with RR format, and 40 players (8 flights of 5) on 8 tables you will have 17.5 hrs. apprx for pre-lims. If 48 players (8 flights of 6) you'll have 22 hrs. for the pre-lims! That's allowing 2.5 hrs. per match.

If the pre-lims start on Thurs evening after the draw, 1 or 2 rounds can be played that evening. Leaving 17.5 or 15 hrs left for the pre-lims over Friday and Saturday.
 
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NH Steve

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Wow, Bogies really takes care of your tournament. I would like to see a $25.00 green fee, and that way it will go a long ways towards the $3,000 added. This fee would not cover match up play! I think a week day like a Thursday which maybe slow for them anyway, might be welcomed, maybe work in the use of more tables in the early morning of Thursday, lol. thanks, again!
I'm in favor of the greens fee too. It isn't much money individually, and it gives each of us a way to "give back" a tiny bit in support of the host room, but with around 40 players it might be significant for Bogies!
 

NH Steve

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For me, the Wednesday afternoon players meeting and Calcutta works fine... Starting the tournament early Thursday morning and having a full extra day of play will solve the entire issue of running late on Sunday, even with over 32 players...

I will talk it out with Rizzo and see if they are willing to dedicate the extra day to the tournament and still add the $3000.00 to the prize pool, pay the TD, not charge green fees, give all the Calcutta money and entire prize pool money back to the players, and feed us all again everyday... By now, they have had a chance to see how the financial side played out and should be able to make a decision based on that and the fact that it’s a bit of a feather in their cap since at present, it’s the only one pocket event of its kind anywhere in the United States...

I’m not sure whether the added day will hinder overall participation, but I wouldn’t think so... Every year we have lost a few and gained a few players and so far the gain has outrun the loss, as we had 38 players in this years event, an all time high...

Hopefully Bogies will host it again next year and agree to add the extra day...

Then just a standard 48 player bracket will work fine...
I'd rather have the calcutta Thursday noon and start the tournament right after -- that's still a big scheduling help over starting the tournament Friday, but for those many of us traveling a long distance (and in some cases, still working :eek:) saving one potential overnight expense and time away would help make it viable...
 

Island Drive

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Time

Time

I'd rather have the calcutta Thursday noon and start the tournament right after -- that's still a big scheduling help over starting the tournament Friday, but for those many of us traveling a long distance (and in some cases, still working :eek:) saving one potential overnight expense and time away would help make it viable...
Since it's a once a yr event, and being over 65 is waaaaaay different than 60.

Play....starting Thur. gives us the needed time to rid us of ALL problems (depends). :lol

Find a number the owner need$ to make Thur. a go, pay em for the time.

Take that number off the top of the Calcutta funds....right there and then and hand it to the owner.

Figure out the calcutta payoff and call match times.

Race to 3 in the Finals with Winner side breaking as always.

After the win, winner buys first round cocktails, I'm in !!! Fun Fun.

In sailing when ya won, we threw ya in the lake. :)

I Really want to see the finals, but never have because of
time.

Us oldsters are running outta time, so lets not Waste time.

Be nice if we all had time to be there for the finals.
 
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LSJohn

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I'm in favor of the greens fee too. It isn't much money individually, and it gives each of us a way to "give back" a tiny bit in support of the host room, but with around 40 players it might be significant for Bogies!
I'm donating $200 to the players, why wouldn't I give a few bucks to the people making it happen?

$30 X 40 is only $1200... they probably spent that much on lunches for us. If they refuse to accept a green fee, we should take up a collection!
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I feel this thread has pretty much played out. We are now waiting on more news of further meetings between Jeff and Rizzo.

There have been a lot of good suggestions, and some consensus. Starting earlier in the day, starting a day earlier whether in the afternoon or morning, green fees and a skim off the top of the Calcutta, plus others.

I want thank all that participated! It was a very good thread! thanks.
 
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