Typical backer payouts?

sappo

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Only the 1st match. If they lose the 1st and win the next match, all the 2nd match money goes to the stakehorse.

If they lose every match, he's only laying 2/1 the first match.

If they lose three in a row and win the next two, he's back where he started.

If they lose 4 and win 5, he's laying 2/1 again. and he's very happy.

Rod.
P.S. I hope I'm making myself clear. Getting old is not for Sissies.
Rod i understand what you are saying but ill say this again. anyone who is paying out all of the losses but only getting half of the winnings {if the matchup is fairly even} is taking the very wrong end of the bet, And anyone who risks none of the losses and gets half of the winnings is getting a fabulous end of the bet.

Keith
P.S> I hope I'm making myself clear. and I do agree with you about getting old.
 

LSJohn

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Unless Rod would explain how the odds change after the first game/set?
All he's sayin' is that if the pony looses the first game or set, but wins the second, on the second bet the stakehorse gets all his money back and the pony gets nothing. IOW, once you're stuck you're getting better odds. :heh
 

darmoose

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I've often wondered this, it makes zero sense if the match is anywhere near even ....



Unless Rod would explain how the odds change after the first game/set? Are you looking at it as some kind of pot odds? I can't see how previous games won or lost affect the odds of the current game, and I would like to understand.

tree

ps sorry, semi hijack here. 40 or 50% cut to me is generous (see above), I'm with sappo, you are free-rolling!
What Rod is saying is that ,if as the backer, you are down a set or more, anytime your horse wins a set, you , as the backer get ALL the money. It stay this way until you get EVEN.
 

onepockethacker

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Actually not sure what the bet would be yet. Undecided. Either by the game, sets, or if one bigger set, ahead set. It was just an overall question.
Psss... pssss.. hey Mitch... shhh... is it a dump? shhh... I won't tell anyone it will just be between you and me:lol:p
 

androd

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Thanks everyone for the info and opinions (except for Goldcrown and the hack attack ����). Jk Frank :). You know you're my buddy.

Like I opened with, I have always played for my own money, so this may never happen.... But in case.. I wanted the benefit of your collective experience... So thanks!!
If you get staked and have no experience being staked, it's hard to play well.

It takes practice to completely disregard the fact that you may lose someone else's money.

I was only staked 5 or 6 times in my life. Didn't play well the 1st few times because of what I stated above.

I staked a few games because I was friends with the player and wished to see him make a score. I always gave 50% or more for that reason.

I've seen players being staked by two Caballo's and play for 1/3rd.

Rod.
P.S. The Beard had some thoughts on this. Don't know where to find them.
 

androd

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I've often wondered this, it makes zero sense if the match is anywhere near even ....



Unless Rod would explain how the odds change after the first game/set? Are you looking at it as some kind of pot odds? I can't see how previous games won or lost affect the odds of the current game, and I would like to understand.

tree

ps sorry, semi hijack here. 40 or 50% cut to me is generous (see above), I'm with sappo, you are free-rolling!
I think some of the brethren here explained my point. I'm not saying it's a good deal, just if you thought the 1st set could've gone either way, the 2nd set's cash will be all yours. (if he wins)
Rod.
 

phil dade

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I read through this and it seems to me that it should be clear, the backer agrees to go so many sets deep on the loss side. The player agrees to stay with the backer the entire session, no matter how far ahead. Any see/saw back and forth is a variation of the backers odds at that time, not getting any money back? The settlement comes after the session is over, if a win the pre agreed split, if a loss the backer eats it.

The last guy I backed was over 10 years ago. It was not pool, but a live pidgeon shoot. They are like rats with wings. He was a championship skeet shooter and was invited to a live pigeon shoot. This was popular in Europe, but is illegal almost everywhere, but this is the south. People come from all over.

I backed him based on 2/3 me, 1/3 him. Really one of my dumber moves, and that is saying a lot. Shooting live birds is way different than clay targets, especially when a shot can mean 4 figures in a small match. Needless to say, I should have bought lottery tickets.
 
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baby huey

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There is no hard and fast rule. A smart stakehorse will not front 100% of the money for a 50/50 split. However, relationships count and depending on the money fronted, a 50/50 split could be achieved. I never was much of a backer and if I knew you well enough I might loan you 50% of the bet and take the other 50% of the bet. That way my concern over potential dumping is not in play. I can live with the results easier. I have seen 60/40 splits lately and for very big money 66/33 or 70/30 splits seem appropriate. A few years ago when Dippy Dave was betting it up in DCC, I saw some pretty big matches where the center bet was high 5 figures and some 6 figure take downs. The players involved couldn't front that kind of cash so I'm sure those were 60/40 splits or less.
 

LSJohn

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the percentage would probably be set in such a way that the player would be least likely to dump. That said, I'm not sure how one would figure that out...:)

~Doc
You can't figure it out because you don't have a devious mind like some of us :D and because it's almost impossible to do.

The guy on the "good" side of the dump isn't risking anything, so he can afford to offer a better split to the dumping player than the backer on the "bad" side who thinks he's only risking his money. :mad: :(
 
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gulfportdoc

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There is no hard and fast rule. A smart stakehorse will not front 100% of the money for a 50/50 split. However, relationships count and depending on the money fronted, a 50/50 split could be achieved. I never was much of a backer and if I knew you well enough I might loan you 50% of the bet and take the other 50% of the bet. That way my concern over potential dumping is not in play. I can live with the results easier. I have seen 60/40 splits lately and for very big money 66/33 or 70/30 splits seem appropriate. A few years ago when Dippy Dave was betting it up in DCC, I saw some pretty big matches where the center bet was high 5 figures and some 6 figure take downs. The players involved couldn't front that kind of cash so I'm sure those were 60/40 splits or less.
Your post makes sense. Those backing methods seem about as good as any to guard against the dump. Otherwise it could be a real mine field out there...:rolleyes:

~Doc
 

lfigueroa

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Just curious what your experience is and if there is a standard?

I typically play for my own cash but may have a sizable match coming up and someone who wants to back me. Betting this high on my own is not an option so it's a win win IMO. But what is the standard split?

Thanks.

Well, Mitch, it sounds like a one time thing, no?

In that case, IMO, there's no spilt. Take whatever percentage of the bet you're comfortable with and let the other guy take what he wants. If you win, he's likely to jelly you up -- but it's at his discretion. IAC, I don't think you should expect a split.

However, if he's offering to back you, then I would just negotiate to the point I thought fair. Whatever makes you happy.

Lou Figueroa
 

lll

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in this case
lets give mitch the benefit of the doubt that there is no dump expected....:eek::)
do you guys think 30-40% for mitch is fair??
 

phil dade

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As a backer, you are a gambler or a friend....forget action junkie, they are losers.

Read David Sklansky, a foremost authority on gambling. His writing is very textbook, but I highly recommend, his books. I have read, reread and studied everything he has written.

Without going to my office, one in particular is about Winning Strategies in Poker Gambling and Life. If forced, I will get it out to be sure of the title, or google it. You must consider the odds and bet accordingly despite your emotion and be consistent. Otherwise, you are loser.

The backer has all the risk and deserves the majority of reward, IMO, payout 2/1 or 3/1. The player can gamble his winnings next session.
 

LSJohn

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, payout 2/1 or 3/1.
I thought 50/50 was pretty common, but I also thought it was wrong.

I see most of the guys here think it should be less. I agree with you: 25-33% if the backer is putting up all the money.
 

gulfportdoc

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I thought 50/50 was pretty common, but I also thought it was wrong.

I see most of the guys here think it should be less. I agree with you: 25-33% if the backer is putting up all the money.
And remember, Bert gave Fast Eddie only 25%...:D

~Doc
 

beatle

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here is a simple way to understand about what you are doing when backing

say you figure you are a two to one favorite to win. and that is a big favorite that usually isnt available with two good players.

so you play 10 times. for say 100 dollars in action each time. you figure to win 66% and lose 33%. so after ten times you are ahead 330 dollars. if you and the backer split that it is 165 dollars each. which is 16$ for each meeting.
so you should give the player about 16$ for winning the hundred dollar set. on a %50/50 split.

if you give more, than if you are the backer and say break even after a bunch of plays the player will be money ahead and his opponents will be stuck. and you will be the sucker.
 

Mkbtank

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Typical backer payouts?

Thanks all.

The only possible dump is the one I would take on the head of whoever thinks that's an actual possibility from me lol. Potential backer in question is a close friend who loves to gamble big and does not play pool. I agree he should get the lions share since it's his risk. Again thanks.
 

androd

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Thanks all.

The only possible dump is the one I would take on the head of whoever thinks that's an actual possibility from me
Great solution.
Those who think of such things, may possibly have done same.
Charlie Chan.
 

onepockethacker

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Thanks all.

The only possible dump is the one I would take on the head of whoever thinks that's an actual possibility from me lol. Potential backer in question is a close friend who loves to gamble big and does not play pool. I agree he should get the lions share since it's his risk. Again thanks.
OMG You people are unbelievable.. Sorry Mitch if my joke got some of these morons thinking you would dump. My bad I forgot most of these people on here got no sense of humor. You could pole vault with the size stick most of these guys got stuck up their asses.
 
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