two balls on the spot

wgcp

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Okay, when do you go for it, and when do you punt and put the cue on the end rail and both balls on your side...

I know it has to be either a ball count or feeling... but I rarely see anyone try to make it...

If you only need one or if you need two.

The third ball is in one of the uptable corners out of play.
Cue ball in hand, in the kitchen...
 

newfosgatesucks

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As you describe it, score would be He needs the two, you need the one. Is the other ball hanging for an easy corner hook? On your side? Watch out. I don't like being fouled off the hill. If not, I usually play it fuller and go for the front ball and let the back ball be a little stiff, kisses a LOT of the time and if hit right he is shooting bridged off the rail if not froze to it. That is if the ball doesn't go.

I'm curious to see who is a proponent of the other theory here, the theory that states If he needes two, NEVER put them in play.

My theory is you have a chance to win or lose with each shot, but if you sell out on the safety(which I have seen but is not likely) you took a 5+ percent(?) chance to lose with an undetermined chance(several innings left) chance to win.(and the bank leaves him to play shapes I might add). Going for it would give you roughly the same chance to lose, however a more solid way to win. If he shoots the bank you leave, after the 2-fer shot you have a shot at your hole. He is faced with Lose, or make a ball and still might lose, and a narrow chance to win. Where you have a way better position.

Just sayin, in a perfect world it may be different, but I haven't seen a pool room yet that doesnt have a greasy ball or a dirty ball, or temp. a lil clammy, etc enough that a skid can't happen...So I favor hitting a ball, when the percentages allow it.
wgcp said:
Okay, when do you go for it, and when do you punt and put the cue on the end rail and both balls on your side...

I know it has to be either a ball count or feeling... but I rarely see anyone try to make it...

If you only need one or if you need two.

The third ball is in one of the uptable corners out of play.
Cue ball in hand, in the kitchen...
 
Last edited:

wgcp

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NFGS,
so you say that it is better to take the "2" fer shot and the chance to end the game.
 

fred bentivegna

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If you know, go..

If you know, go..

If you know how to shoot the, "draw the head ball into the pocket," shoot that -- always. IMHO

I do know how to shoot it and I shoot it under any and all pressure conditions, providing there are no interferring balls that might come into play, or if might sell out a shot by pulling the cue ball back to the end rail ( say he has a ball near the long rail to his pocket behind the side pocket) With only those two balls on the table it is always a go -- if you know.

WGCP, when you come to Chicago, I will lock that shot in for you.

Beard
 

androd

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newfosgatesucks said:
As you describe it, score would be He needs the two, you need the one.
With three balls on the table, you both probably need two. If you need one he needs three.
Rod. <-------We Virgos are nit pickers :p :D
 

wgcp

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as so adeptly, not nitty, pointed out by rod... we both need two... I like to try and make the first ball, but when I see this in any of the video's, the only person I have seen try to make this is efren, and cliff J... everyone else always seems to bunt and leave the cue on the end rail...

Freddy, I would love to learn how to lock that shot in... but right now it is a 50/50 proposition with my limited skills... therein is the reason for the question...

Usually Dennis chimes in on percentages... which in a way I was looking for...guess I am becoming a mover not a shooter at this game... it is a lot harder than when I started playing it a couple of years ago...
 

Cowboy Dennis

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wgcp said:
as so adeptly, not nitty, pointed out by rod... we both need two... I like to try and make the first ball, but when I see this in any of the video's, the only person I have seen try to make this is efren, and cliff J... everyone else always seems to bunt and leave the cue on the end rail...

Freddy, I would love to learn how to lock that shot in... but right now it is a 50/50 proposition with my limited skills... therein is the reason for the question...

Usually Dennis chimes in on percentages... which in a way I was looking for...guess I am becoming a mover not a shooter at this game... it is a lot harder than when I started playing it a couple of years ago...
Bille,

I didn't know the score till now:) . When those top players are playing in a tourney they have brand new cloth, making drawing the cueball much easier on this shot. I've seen top players miscue or scratch trying to draw back and make the head ball, they look like idiots when that happens.

Since I've rarely ever played on a table with brand new cloth, I would usually play a safety on this shot like I've diagrammed on the WEI. But several things could make me shoot the draw shot and try to put both balls by my pocket. (1)The position of the 3rd ball on the table. (2) If I'm losing I'm more likely to shoot the draw shot. (3) If the bet is high I'm more likely to shoot the draw shot, given a good cloth to draw back on, particularly if the 3rd ball is in the opposite corner from my pocket(to block a scratch).

On a worn out cloth I'd never try it for any amount.

Dennis

[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@4AALX4EALp1IYnb1PJJl3QcYs4UALX3UYTO4YALp3YBUj2YIAK1kJJl4kBqL4kJMb@[/CUETABLE]
 

jtompilot

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I've made the front ball. I've made the back ball. Once I made both balls. I almost always shoot the shot. I have sold out also, the balls must not have been froze. Even if I only need one I shoot it. My winning percentage is very high. I've played safe and lost. I've won when others played played safe. I would rather shoot to win.
 

wincardona

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wgcp said:
as so adeptly, not nitty, pointed out by rod... we both need two... I like to try and make the first ball, but when I see this in any of the video's, the only person I have seen try to make this is efren, and cliff J... everyone else always seems to bunt and leave the cue on the end rail...

Freddy, I would love to learn how to lock that shot in... but right now it is a 50/50 proposition with my limited skills... therein is the reason for the question...

Usually Dennis chimes in on percentages... which in a way I was looking for...guess I am becoming a mover not a shooter at this game... it is a lot harder than when I started playing it a couple of years ago...
Allow me to give you my prospective on this clouded decision.

I believe that the skills of the players are of great importance when confronted with this decision.

I am going to group all players into four groups, A-B-C-D-

Lets say that there are only two balls left and the player at the table with ball in hand behind the head string needs only one. If two top players A or B group are playing I would go for the offensive shot every time. My reasoning for this is two fold. One reason is that top players will hit this shot more accurately than weaker players and will get much better results. Two, when top players are playing oneanother and this situation developes it is easier for the player needing both balls to win, because of his offensive skills. This does not apply to an A or B player playing C and D players, if that's the situation I would play the more conservative shot and win by outmoving my opponent with my superior skills.

If C and D players are playing oneanother I would play the more conservative shot, because balls are worth more to C and D players and a lead of 1 ball is much stronger.

If a C or D player is playing a top player and the C or D player needs both balls I would recommend shooting the offensive shot.;) I would't want a C or D player shooting that shot if he was playing me.:eek:

Billy I.
 

newfosgatesucks

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But absolutely correct!

androd said:
With three balls on the table, you both probably need two. If you need one he needs three.
Rod. <-------We Virgos are nit pickers :p :D
 

newfosgatesucks

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ANd, I might add, those are two of the most successful players on the tour, on the road, and in history. Screw what the player they beat shoots. BTW I have a feeling they are playing the head ball if you inspect closer, as referenced in post number 2!! And by Freddy!!

wgcp said:
the only person I have seen try to make this is efren, and cliff J... everyone else always seems to bunt and leave the cue on the end rail...

...
 

wgcp

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NFGS,
I will be back in Southaven for a weekend in May... perhaps we could meet at table one at the rec... the rack is too scary for me... I don't like to be the only guy unarmed...

Bille
 

beatle

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before you play you need to practice it on each table. on some you can hardly force that ball forward enough, and some it hardly pays because of the way the bottom ball double banks. and many tables banking the double for the hole is better. but in any case if you can play decent learn the shot and how not to sellout on it.
 

newfosgatesucks

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That sounds good let me know when time comes nearer. I'd like to meet you and more people from here.

And yes, the Rack is not the greatest atmosphere!
wgcp said:
NFGS,
I will be back in Southaven for a weekend in May... perhaps we could meet at table one at the rec... the rack is too scary for me... I don't like to be the only guy unarmed...

Bille
 
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