Top Two One Pocket Players in the World

[Fast Lenny]

lenny
dont shoot the messenger
i like you and all you do for pool
i like frosts game ALOT
but i thought him pulling out the jump cue against efren in one of the matches he won was low class
he knows better (jmho icbw)
him beating efren in the past 5-6years
means to me that an efren past his prime isnt as good as scott in his prime
although their games are close
the last match which i woke up at 6am est to be priviledged (thanks ray)
to watch a stream of them having played all night after efren played all day to win the tournament
did i forget to say efren is 60 years old??
that match came down to the last ball
so to answer your question
as someone in football said
you are what your record says you are
so based on the record
scott can beat efren NOW
therefore as of today he (scott) should be in the conversation of the 2 best today
now let me ask you a question
do you think scott will ever be thought of or in the discussion of the GREATEST OF ALL TIME??
let me repeat
i think scott is a great player and his/your dvds are a terrific resource for one pocket knowledge which i own and encourage others to buy ...

We are talking about the 2 best "today", not the 2 best from 10 years ago which probably was Efren and Cliff. As for the jump cue incident I was there and Efren did jump up and not happy about it but Scott said to Efren that they had played that way before, different rules for gambling. Personally I don't like the jump cue but I also don't like the ball being made on the break in one pocket either.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Scott is certainly in the conversation, and may be the best at times, but like all the players at the top, they will take turns beating each other. While Scott has won against Efren gambling multiple times, he has lost to others that Efren has beaten.

If I have to pick I would waffle a little and say Scott is the best for the $$ and Efren is the best in tournaments.

I agree on this, Scott is probably the best one pocket money player possibly of all time and Efren is certainly the best tournament player in one pocket but most importantly the best all around pool player ever!

 

[lll]

We are talking about the 2 best "today", not the 2 best from 10 years ago which probably was Efren and Cliff. As for the jump cue incident I was there and Efren did jump up and not happy about it but Scott said to Efren that they had played that way before, different rules for gambling. Personally I don't like the jump cue but I also don't like the ball being made on the break in one pocket either.

like i said in my post lenny
you are what your record says
so i agree based on recent past performance scott is better TODAY
its just hard to concede that someone you respect so much (efren) has lost a step......
dam father time...:frus....

 

[androd]

like i said in my post lenny
you are what your record says
so i agree based on recent past performance scott is better TODAY
its just hard to concede that someone you respect so much (efren) has lost a step......
dam father time...:frus....

Time marches on.
I imagine some of the young guns are breathing down everyones neck.
Rod.
P.S. It's evolution.

 

[Nick B]

Scott - is
Alex - Could have been
SVB - will be
Efren - Was

 

[lll]

Scott - is
Alex - Could have been
SVB - will be
Efren - Was

nick thanks for posting you and your "old lady"...

 

[Nick B]

What can I say...I'm a pleaser.

 

[keoneyo]

I guess I look at it a little different from most people. I don't look at just the skill and athletic capability. Because money is such a prevalent issue in the game because of Gambling and Prize money I would say that the best has to not just beat every one but have all the chips at the end of the day.

We can argue for days who had the best stroke. Who had the biggest arsenal of shots. Who beat who and when. But for me the complete player must have great money management skills as well. Cause at the end of the day it don't matter how many balls you pocket. That wont get you a cup of coffee at the RIO. Its how big your bankroll is.

In my opinion Efren is probably the most complete competitor. He not only beat most, has the most trophies, but also probably has the best financial position. (from what I know which is only what I hear), SVB is still young and yet to prove himself. The others mentioned have great points but are lacking in one big area. That is financial success from their skills. And after all they are professionals playing for income.

I apologize if I put a damper on things. Its exciting to talk about the greats and who coulda, woulda shoulda, but for me longevity and security is one of the prime requirements that make a player great.

 

[LSJohn]

Nick B;145102

Alex - Could have been

I suspect and hope that Alex has not seen his best.

SVB - will be

Only if he improves faster than Bergman, Hall, Roberts, Smith, Thorpe, Gray, Compton and Woodward (who'd I leave out? )

Out of this group, including SVB, whoever has the best head has the best chance.

But I like your post. Poetic and with the weight of legitimacy.

 

[petie]

For the benefit of those who weren't there or haven't heard (like myself), can someone explain the circumstances wherein Frost used a jump cue? I do know they were actually allowed in the 1p section at DCC a couple years - perhaps it was then? If it was an action match or not one of those years, why did Efren not object? Doubtless this has been covered, but somebody give us a rundown.

Efren did object, quietly as always. Scott employed his considerable hubris and told him it was OK that we did it all the time--if not a lie at least a stretch of the truth. Scott proceeded to do it.

 

[straightback]

Efren did object, quietly as always. Scott employed his considerable hubris and told him it was OK that we did it all the time--if not a lie at least a stretch of the truth. Scott proceeded to do it.

When was this??? While Efren does not himself jump balls (he does not believe in it), he surely has been around long enough to know they are traditionally not allowed in 1p. I have seen Efren "jump" exactly ONE TIME, and it wasn't a jump as we know it - he got over maybe a 1/32 of a ball with a full cue, a hard stroke and only slight elevation.

Let me back up and say this - just before he hit the shot, he did go back to his cue case and came back, shrugging and saying "no jump cue." So, he probably has been dragged into using it because of its obvious advantage when no kicks are available. However, when you kick like this man, the jump cue probably doesn't get a lot of play!

Either way, a lot of things are not discussed before the money hits the light because there are some basic assumptions that go along with it. If you are planning on using a jump cue with me, you better plan on negotiating it beforehand. Period.

I am very surprised Scott would pull this move! He knows this is wrong.

 

[lll]

for the record that was only one inning in the set
scott has beaten efren several times since without using the jump cue

 

[Fast Lenny]

for the record that was only one inning in the set
scott has beaten efren several times since without using the jump cue

Just figured I would share an image for everyone of the infamous jump shot that got some riled up. :heh

 

[Fast Lenny]

From the other angle.

 

[Fast Lenny]

Efren glassy eyed. :sorry

 

[wincardona]

When was this??? While Efren does not himself jump balls (he does not believe in it), he surely has been around long enough to know they are traditionally not allowed in 1p. I have seen Efren "jump" exactly ONE TIME, and it wasn't a jump as we know it - he got over maybe a 1/32 of a ball with a full cue, a hard stroke and only slight elevation.

Let me back up and say this - just before he hit the shot, he did go back to his cue case and came back, shrugging and saying "no jump cue." So, he probably has been dragged into using it because of its obvious advantage when no kicks are available. However, when you kick like this man, the jump cue probably doesn't get a lot of play!

Either way, a lot of things are not discussed before the money hits the light because there are some basic assumptions that go along with it. If you are planning on using a jump cue with me, you better plan on negotiating it beforehand. Period.

I am very surprised Scott would pull this move! He knows this is wrong.

I agree, it's a code of unwritten rules of ethics that we contemporaries share and respect when playing one another. This is a violation of the code.

Dr. Bill

 

[baby huey]

I tried to find out what the objection was? Is it using a jump cue during a One Pocket match? It appears that Scott used a jump cue and it wasn't agreed upon prior to the match. They have played too many times for this to be an issue. Their rules should have already been laid out in prior matches. Jump cues, getting on the table, and/or anything else just shouldn't come up. Efren is the easiest person in the world to play with. No complaints, no whining and most of all no sharking is his motto. That's what separates him from the rest of us.

Regarding the best two players, I think as time goes on the best ball striker(s) are going to take over our game. Look, good pool players watch and learn. That's how we get better. There are a bunch of very good players coming on the scene who can and will succeed in putting a lot of heat on our current crop of top players.

 

[petie]

I tried to find out what the objection was? Is it using a jump cue during a One Pocket match? It appears that Scott used a jump cue and it wasn't agreed upon prior to the match. They have played too many times for this to be an issue. Their rules should have already been laid out in prior matches. Jump cues, getting on the table, and/or anything else just shouldn't come up. Efren is the easiest person in the world to play with. No complaints, no whining and most of all no sharking is his motto. That's what separates him from the rest of us.

Regarding the best two players, I think as time goes on the best ball striker(s) are going to take over our game. Look, good pool players watch and learn. That's how we get better. There are a bunch of very good players coming on the scene who can and will succeed in putting a lot of heat on our current crop of top players.

Yes, the objection is for using a jump cue in One Pocket. No problem if you jump with your regular cue. Anybody who thinks there should be no rules against this must not have been around in the late '80's/early'90's. There was a jump cue back then that had a large (3/4 inch) white plastic tip that was ridiculous. It made a folly out of even 9 ball. I don't know what ever happened to it.

The best two players will forever be a moving target. It will change with time.

 

[Island Drive]

Yes, the objection is for using a jump cue in One Pocket. No problem if you jump with your regular cue. Anybody who thinks there should be no rules against this must not have been around in the late '80's/early'90's. There was a jump cue back then that had a large (3/4 inch) white plastic tip that was ridiculous. It made a folly out of even 9 ball. I don't know what ever happened to it.

The best two players will forever be a moving target. It will change with time.

Jump Rod, got it put on me in a bar table event YEARS ago, I think the metal rod was Galvanized and the tip was the bottom of a foldable chair foot. Boing..........

 

[newfosgatesucks]

The one who I have seen the most comfortable regardless of the situation is Reyes. Once very couple of matches someone will reach above their ability at the time. However Reyes only seems to make that mistake once every blue moon. The most common mistake in one pocket is under his control 99% of the time even as he wanes past prime, and the new stars are shining.

Now that 1-hole is more aggressive, those who jeered his choices years ago must admit-he was simply before his time. He could get his 8 from nowhere.