The Truth About Pocket Size....

lll

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
petie said:
Thanks for your expertise, Artie. I'm still waiting for your commentary on One Pocket games on the web or DVD's and or to seeing you play or give lessons on DVD. I think it would do the world of One Pocket a huge service and there are lots of guys like me who would be hangin' on your every word.[/QUOTE

U would like too do it at the Us open with Buddy Hall. For one gamme If that could be done.

And I hope its rwo great players playing.

Even Alex and Scott. Or Gab and Shannon.

Or Shane and another good player Or Eferine But I dont no if ue is going to be thier. Or how his health is.

But I would like too comantate one game with budy. Or the 3 muskateers Ronnie Kelly and me.

But the might not what a Hustler comontating that never played in tournements.

But I no one thing whoever listen to iy will like it. Even wuth my pool room slang.

Let me no if someone can get it sone. I would enjoy it because I never did it before. But I do no the game. And I think the people listning will realy enyoy it.

But the only way I can see what they think is if I get too do it.
accu-stats, lenny. greg
ARE YOU LISTENING????
 

Scrzbill

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
A tight pocket table can not help a week shooter. He has enough problems on a easy pocket table.

And if you are the weeker player too start with why would you want too make it even tougher for yourself.

Forget about making it harder for the better player. The key is too make it easier for you.
I don't want to make easier for a run out player to get or stay in stroke. Smaller pockets means I can take out balls better and cause disruption. One and duck. One and duck. If I could run eight, a bigger pocket table may be better. I sure don't want bigger pockets for a run out shooter so he can run eight, nine, ten and out. I want to cause a shooter as many problems as possible. If it were easy for me, I wouldn't need the nuts to play.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Scrzbill said:
I don't want to make easier for a run out player to get or stay in stroke. Smaller pockets means I can take out balls better and cause disruption. One and duck. One and duck. If I could run eight, a bigger pocket table may be better. I sure don't want bigger pockets for a run out shooter so he can run eight, nine, ten and out. I want to cause a shooter as many problems as possible. If it were easy for me, I wouldn't need the nuts to play.

All I her is about what the tight and looser pockets do too they good player.

NObody talks about what it does for the weacker player Why. And a weacker player has only 4 balls too run soo the weacker pockets will help him run 4 a lot easier. Then the player having too run 18 balls.

Because the better player has to rely on getting more chances. Because he might not run a 18 balls in his whole session. Were the weacker player might run 4 balls.

Let me her some off the reasoning behund the weacker player. All I have herd is about the better player. Thier are two people playng. So lets talk about the weacker player.
 

Grady

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wrong, wrong and wronger!!!!

wrong, wrong and wronger!!!!

I'll give everybody time to mull it over. Then I will explain how wrong you are AND I'm willing to back my conclusions up with a big wager and a match.
 

John Brumback

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Hey Eric,Not to change the subject but just so happens I'm trying to figure
out something?? ....Say I'm giving a guy 6 to 3 banks.....should I play him on a tight table or loose?? At first thought,I was thinking loose. Cause I can run more balls and It would help me out run the nuts..So to speak.

What do ya'll think?? Trying not to hijack,Just thought this ? might fit good here. Thanks, John B
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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lll said:
Artie Bodendorfer said:
accu-stats, lenny. greg
ARE YOU LISTENING????


Maybe you have too have political conection too comintate. JUst like in las Vega they dont want me too tell people what Vegas realy is and whats realy going on.

Its thier baby and they just want too make thier money. And they dont want the truth too be told. But it will get thier. Its always hard whn you go up against the nuts.

But I am a realist and I remember I was about 20 years old when this old man told me thier is no place in the world for a realist. I never forgot it.

But Time will bring out everything. Thats how life works. Once the people are dead it doesnt mattter no more what people say about them.

Like this big time prosacuter. What he said about my friend. Frank he said I am glade he suffered with his cancer. Thays a nice thing too say for someone that is suppose to be for law ans order.

Mean while he wouldnt have had the balls too tell him that to his face or when he was alive. And if he would have meet him face to face alone. He would have shit in his pants. ..

Yhey all got balls when they have a army behind them.BUt face too face its a different ball game.

Belive me this prosacuter would have shit all over himself if he was alone with Frank. But like I say once someone is dead the say what they want. Because nobody cares because its history.
 

Viffer

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
I can tell you this I no one pocket and I no things about the game
that nobody else knowes because I learned it myself.

And most off all the other subjects I a week because I never wanted to learn them.

Gambling is the only thing that ealy fasanated me. And figuring out how too win.

And I can honestly say I am one off a few players that won on KNowledge not shooting.


yeah i won with my fire power :)
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Viffer said:
yeah i won with my fire power :)


How about when you loose do you loose because off your fire power? Fire power is good when your in a fire. But what if thier is no fire. And you can only fire if thier is something to fire at.

If thier is nothing to shoot at what do you fire at. You cant fire at air.
 

Scrzbill

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Viffer said:
yeah i won with my fire power :)

I would have to agree with that statement. I did see you fire in ONE great shot in the ten days.
 

Scrzbill

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Viffer said:
yeah i won with my fire power :)

Dave, you may not remember me with all the mooches hitting you up, but I invited you out to California Billiards for the $4000 added one pocket tournament. I know you are not interested in the tournament but many of your favorite opponents will be there.
The second thing is: my wardrobe is not complete. I need a WWDD shirt to feel complete.
 

Scrzbill

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
All I her is about what the tight and looser pockets do too they good player.

NObody talks about what it does for the weacker player Why. And a weacker player has only 4 balls too run soo the weacker pockets will help him run 4 a lot easier. Then the player having too run 18 balls.

Because the better player has to rely on getting more chances. Because he might not run a 18 balls in his whole session. Were the weacker player might run 4 balls.

Let me her some off the reasoning behund the weacker player. All I have herd is about the better player. Thier are two people playng. So lets talk about the weacker player.
Artie, I am the weaker player. We are talking about one pocket and in one pocket there are lost of times when there is no shot. I myself dink, dink, dink, until I can't dink no more. Getting 18-4 would be a dream game. I am more than happy to get my 10-6 and the smacks from JR.
 

Frank Almanza

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I've been waiting to see a posts from some of our more knowledgeable players but still none except from Artie. Grady is waiting to say something but wants to see more responses. Where is Bill I. I'm sure he's recovered enough to say a few words. Billy S., where are you? All other, what say you?

Ok, I just read the thread by Billy I on four inch pockets. Nice thread and I believe in what he says.
 
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lll

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Frank Almanza said:
I've been waiting to see a posts from some of our more knowledgeable players but still none except from Artie. Grady is waiting to say something but wants to see more responses. Where is Bill I. I'm sure he's recovered enough to say a few words. Billy S., where are you? All other, what say you?

Ok, I just read the thread by Billy I on four inch pockets. Nice thread and I believe in what he says.
frank I'm also surprised that many of our "regulars" havent offered an opinion
not just on this thread either
 

Fatboy

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John Brumback said:
Hey Eric,Not to change the subject but just so happens I'm trying to figure
out something?? ....Say I'm giving a guy 6 to 3 banks.....should I play him on a tight table or loose?? At first thought,I was thinking loose. Cause I can run more balls and It would help me out run the nuts..So to speak.

What do ya'll think?? Trying not to hijack,Just thought this ? might fit good here. Thanks, John B

Good point, real good point.


I have to think about this, I'm not a champion as you know-but I been around pool a real long time and have a good pool brain. I just wish I was born with a lick of talent(different topic).

I spoke to JA last night but we didnt talk about pool, I'm gonna ask him his opinion and think on it too, i'll post what he says for everyone-he likes that once in a while.

Im thinking out loud here:

I have played you John and the thing is your so speed is so far off the chart compaired to mine, that I dont think pocket size matters much. I wasnt in bank stroke when you and I played. I have to play banks everyday for a couple weeks to get into what I call "Bank Stroke"; my stroke changes when all I play is banks and I bank better. If I dont play banks everyday then I lose that feeling and I dont bank as well.

Even If I was playing my best bank game ever I still like playing on big pockets. Here's why- I changed my Diamond box to 4 1/8" pockets and I cant bank 3 in a row on it. On a Gold Crown with 5" pockets I can bank 3 and out, If we were gambling 6-3 I can get out in one inning on a 5" pocket box, I cant bank out on 4" pockets. You bank so good that you dont hang balls they go in so the smaller pockets wont slow you down much as me.

So with that logic we gotta play on big pockets, If I want the edge the table can give me. Also I cant win playing you 6-3 but I would win more games on a 5" table than a 4" table, so even tho the game is a losing proposition I lose less games on the bigger pockets. Its like a roulette table with single 0 the house still has a edge but they win slower than a double 0,00 wheel. Both game the player loses and the casino wins no matter what, the player just lasts longer on the single 0. Thats like me and you playing 6-3 I'm gonna lose, but it will take you longer to win on a 4" table.


thats how I see it.

BTW: we aint ever gonna gamble against each other, ever.:)

Best,
Eric
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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lll said:
frank I'm also surprised that many of our "regulars" havent offered an opinion
not just on this thread either

The qouistion is not about tighter pockets are harder to maje balls on we all no that answer.

Just like we all no looser pockets are easier to make balls on.

The qouistion is are tighter pockets better for the player giving the spot or getting the spot.

I no tighter pockets are better for the better player. That does not mean that the bettor player is the better shooter.

That means the better player knowes more. moves better makes less mistakes And knowes the game better and what too do in certain situations.. And playes better percentage shots. He wins on his knowledge not just by shooting.

And running 8 and out. A tight pocket table is and has too be way harder for a none player and shooter. Then a skilled player and shooter. And some players shoot so good that the tight pockets wont even afect him. Because they ajust and thier accracy becomes better.

If a player like Grady would give up a big spot too a weacker player on a tighr table. It will afect the weacker player way more then it will affect Grady.

But ask Grady he knowes what he thinks is worse or better for him then I do. But that is what I belive. And I go by what I have done my whole life. I have nothing else too go by but what I experencet.
 

Fatboy

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I played Cotton lots of banks 6-4 and I can think of 20+ times my $$ ball would hit the point and He would get up and bank out 4,5,6 balls on my miss(by hitting the point) thus giving him the table and the runout. This was on 4 5/8" pockets or 4 1/2" Pockets I dont remember the exact size. I just remember how many times I'd miss by a hair and he would bank out on me. It was pissing me off becasuse for a while he was teasing/sharking me, getting into my head because the 4th ball, my $ ball would awalys hang or hit the point, I forgot about that on my last post, I was just sitting here thinking of bank pool I have played and remembered Cotton f*ucking with me. LOL

If I had won those games and I would have on 5" pockets, Cotton would have not beat me on many times we played. We bet $5/game so it wasnt a big deal-were good friends and it was cheap lessions, but I remember it clearly.


There is no doubt in my mind the bigger pockets favor me playing Cotton. It might be different playing you John because you bank so strong the pockets might not matter. So in conclusion the big pockets either benefit or dont benefit/matter for the weaker player, big pockets never benefit the strong player. Big pockets make it worse or arnt a factor for the stronger player.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Fatboy said:
Good point, real good point.


I have to think about this, I'm not a champion as you know-but I been around pool a real long time and have a good pool brain. I just wish I was born with a lick of talent(different topic).

I spoke to JA last night but we didnt talk about pool, I'm gonna ask him his opinion and think on it too, i'll post what he says for everyone-he likes that once in a while.

Im thinking out loud here:

I have played you John and the thing is your so speed is so far off the chart compaired to mine, that I dont think pocket size matters much. I wasnt in bank stroke when you and I played. I have to play banks everyday for a couple weeks to get into what I call "Bank Stroke"; my stroke changes when all I play is banks and I bank better. If I dont play banks everyday then I lose that feeling and I dont bank as well.

Even If I was playing my best bank game ever I still like playing on big pockets. Here's why- I changed my Diamond box to 4 1/8" pockets and I cant bank 3 in a row on it. On a Gold Crown with 5" pockets I can bank 3 and out, If we were gambling 6-3 I can get out in one inning on a 5" pocket box, I cant bank out on 4" pockets. You bank so good that you dont hang balls they go in so the smaller pockets wont slow you down much as me.

So with that logic we gotta play on big pockets, If I want the edge the table can give me. Also I cant win playing you 6-3 but I would win more games on a 5" table than a 4" table, so even tho the game is a losing proposition I lose less games on the bigger pockets. Its like a roulette table with single 0 the house still has a edge but they win slower than a double 0,00 wheel. Both game the player loses and the casino wins no matter what, the player just lasts longer on the single 0. Thats like me and you playing 6-3 I'm gonna lose, but it will take you longer to win on a 4" table.


thats how I see it.

BTW: we aint ever gonna gamble against each other, ever.:)

Best,
Eric

HEr John I will Help you out. WE no players will run more balls on bigger pockets. Thats a fact. If you are the better player and banker. Why would you want to play a player you are spoting on a easier table.

He is going too shot at harder shots then you are. And Uf youre shots are going too be easier banks then he is. Youre percentage of makeing balls in compaierason.

Will be way way Higer then the spot you are giving out. Because you will be shooting easier dhots were your opponent will be shooting way harder shots.

And a week player banking the length off the table banks on a 4 inch pocket he might not make a ball in 4 games. Thats how hard it becomes for hin.

But the only way too see it play a week player on a 4 inch pocket and you will see.

If I am betting on you or backing you and you play fat boy. 6 to 3 .
I want you too play him on the thightest table possable.

And if he only has too make3 balls I sure dont want to make it esier for him. Knoweing it will be harder for me too. But you will get better shots and hanks.

And you accracy. compared to a player getting 6 to 3. I belive the difference will be you will avarage 3 balls to every 1 ball he makes on a 4 inch pocket table.

Because the difference in ability Knowledge and you will have easier shots. Were the 4 inch pocket the weack player will strugle to make a ball. And might not even be able too make one ball.

Tight pckets are complete suicide for a week player.
 

Fatboy

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Viffer said:
yeah i won with my fire power :)


You bank real good, and awalys have balls moving towards your hole. Chohan Jr is how I see your game(i mean that with respect to you), Tony would awalys have balls moving towards his hole. your style and his are similar that way, he is just a better player with the same style.


Now because of that style of play when you do have to shoot a ball into your hole its awalys close because you moved them there in previous shots (i'm not talking about bank shots), since your shooting so balls close to your hole when you beat someone to the shot, and get that chance at open shots your close to the hole, so in your case I dont think it matters if its a 4 or 5 inch pocket. The reason being is the ball your shooting at is 12" from the pocket and when balls are that close pocket size dosent matter. But your the exception not the rule.


I also think that 4" or 5" pockets in a 18-4 one hole game with Dip/Viffer wash out and dosent come into play. This 18-4 game is a rare one off match up, I been around pool 26 years now and I aint ever seen it before, might not ever see it again. So I think its the exception to the rule that bigger pockets favor the weaker player. I dont think it matters when one hole is handicapped 18-4; pocket size is out the window. I think lots of other factors of pool that we all assume are gone with the 18-4 game, conventional pool wisdom dosent apply.


thats how I see it.


Fatboy


PS: I'll play you some 18-4 and lay you 5-1 on the $$$, LOL :p ;) :) On the square I dont think I can beat you even, but I think I can win the 18-4 games your not winning. Figure that out. I'm dead serious.
 
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Banks

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Tough pockets

Tough pockets

I had to play some league stuff over the weekend..

I was given a choice by the TD - play a regular diamond barbox or the harder table with the extra pocket shelf and tighter pockets.

I said the tougher table was fine (it was the only one open at the time). My banks had been doing fine on it, even though my normal game has had past problems(I hate that table).

My opponent was a good player and could probably give me the 6, but wanted to wait instead for one of the other tables to open up. He said it took away from the game to play on the other table.

Needless to say, I was a little disappointed as I had already (temporarily) conquered that table mentally.

Ended up playing ok, but still lost. Next year, damnit, I'm gonna git that sucka. First, it's one master blocking my road to nationals, now it's another.. finally beat the first, now I've got a new target.

.. I don't mind tighter pockets on my banks, as they tend to either go more center pocket on the wider angles or more pocket speed on the shorter angles.

Like with table speeds, rails and balls.. could it be that the one that can simply adjust the best to the different conditions has the upper hand? Like the good big table players that struggle on the confines of barboxes?
 

wincardona

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Tight Pockets And 4 Inch Pockets

Tight Pockets And 4 Inch Pockets

Frank Almanza said:
I've been waiting to see a posts from some of our more knowledgeable players but still none except from Artie. Grady is waiting to say something but wants to see more responses. Where is Bill I. I'm sure he's recovered enough to say a few words. Billy S., where are you? All other, what say you?

Ok, I just read the thread by Billy I on four inch pockets. Nice thread and I believe in what he says.
Frank, I strongly believe that 4 inch pockets hurt the better player when he's giving up substantial weight. Tight pockets isn't relative to what i'm saying, a 4-1/2 inch pocket is considered a tight pocket, and I believe that a 4-1/2 inch pocket helps the better player giving substantial weight. But their is a pocket size that hurts the better player giving substantial weight and I believe it's a 4 inch pocket or smaller. For those who might have a problem understanding what i'm saying, let me put it in another prospective. WHEN GIVING UP WEIGHT TRY TO CHOOSE A POCKET SIZE THAT INTIMIDATES YOUR OPPONENT BUT DOESN'T INTIMIDATE YOU.:)

Billy I.
 
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