The simple simple truth

youngstownkid

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The simple simple truth

I just don’t see the problem you’re seeing. You don’t like the idea of someone playing fast? Winning is what matters, and we’re talking 2 days, so there’s plenty of chances. Let’s keep it simple until s problem really presents itself. I just don’t see a way of beating the system.


Sometimes ppl will lose slow, sometimes they will win 3 games fast, but over the course of two days that will even out. Will it be perfect, probably not, but any format has its nuances, like drawing the best two players and being knocked out early in double elimination. I think rushing is risky. The only way to really get on the waiting list quicker is to concede a game. If somebody wants to do that I don’t have a problem with it.
 

NH Steve

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I just don’t see the problem you’re seeing. You don’t like the idea of someone playing fast? Winning is what matters, and we’re talking 2 days, so there’s plenty of chances. Let’s keep it simple until s problem really presents itself. I just don’t see a way of beating the system.
I described a few potential issues with maneuvering and/or game changing to take advantage of the format as I see it in my mind -- with zero experience with the chip format. That's why I suggested two or three precautionary tweaks to the format so that the games, and event, stay true to our goal of good and fair competition with our fellow members. But don't forget, there is a fair amount of money involved. That is part of why players are competing hard. We have a lot of smart players that will see exploitable opportunities if you build those in to your system. I'm saying let's look at that ahead of time and clean it up as much as possible, so what we are playing is indeed our purest style of the game we love, in a fair competitive (and friendly, fun) manner!
 

youngstownkid

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The simple simple truth

I'm kind of feeling like this chip tourney idea is starting to take me right back to the RR idea, but single games in the RR. That avoids all those little potential pitfalls, and only leaves us back with the initial issue -- slow players lol :D:D:D


Ok, your opinion, but does that mean it doesn’t get on the ballot? What are the pitfalls you see exactly?
 

youngstownkid

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The simple simple truth

I described a few potential issues with maneuvering and/or game changing to take advantage of the format as I see it in my mind -- with zero experience with the chip format. That's why I suggested two or three precautionary tweaks to the format so that the games, and event, stay true to our goal of good and fair competition with our fellow members. But don't forget, there is a fair amount of money involved. That is part of why players are competing hard. We have a lot of smart players that will see exploitable opportunities if you build those in to your system. I'm saying let's look at that ahead of time and clean it up as much as possible, so what we are playing is indeed our purest style of the game we love, in a fair competitive (and friendly, fun) manner!


By maneuvers you mean changing style of play? By game changing you mean what exactly?
 

youngstownkid

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The simple simple truth

One thing we could do is make sure that people get put back in the same order grouped by the people who lost their first game people who won one game and people who want two games. Then there’s no maneuvering. That means we need a piece of scrap paper or a laptop, but is doable.
 

youngstownkid

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The simple simple truth

One thing we could do is make sure that people get put back in the same order grouped by the people who lost their first game people who won one game and people who want two games. Then there’s no maneuvering. That means we need a piece of scrap paper or a laptop, but is doable.


So if two people get called up and they both lose they go back on the waiting list in the same order as they got called up
 

NH Steve

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It sounds to me like a chip tournament would be a perfect format for a 2nd chance tournament at one of our events, because to me it seems like it is particularly geared toward fun and social mixing. And if you make the 2nd chance tourney low money entry, there it is, a lot of fun to be had, and not a lot of motivation to maneuver!!

I'm just not sure, unless we can work out potential wrinkles ahead of time, that it gives us the pure, and fair competition at the game we love, for the main event.
 

youngstownkid

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The simple simple truth

It sounds to me like a chip tournament would be a perfect format for a 2nd chance tournament at one of our events, because to me it seems like it is particularly geared toward fun and social mixing. And if you make the 2nd chance tourney low money entry, there it is, a lot of fun to be had, and not a lot of motivation to maneuver!!



I'm just not sure, unless we can work out potential wrinkles ahead of time, that it gives us the pure, and fair competition at the game we love, for the main event.


Just solved the maneuver issue see last post
 

NH Steve

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Ok, your opinion, but does that mean it doesn’t get on the ballot? What are the pitfalls you see exactly?
I'm fine with putting it on the ballot -- I just want all our members to have as clear a picture as possible of how it would work if we do it, and what it might mean.

I've outlined several pitfalls -- some of which either you or I have already suggested ways to avoid. I don't think we are on the same page yet, but I see the chip tourney as a valid idea, still with questions, and details yet to be fleshed out. The RR idea would need fleshing out too, and even the Double Elimination -- we already know the DE has issues that we have to address.
 

NH Steve

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So if two people get called up and they both lose they go back on the waiting list in the same order as they got called up
Same order as the very beginning?? Then it sounds more like a big round robin -- just one game per match and everyone works through everyone. The main difference being, the incoming players break, and the table assignments are prescribed by who wins and the order on the master list??

Now I am definitely confused lol
 

youngstownkid

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The simple simple truth

Same order as the very beginning?? Then it sounds more like a big round robin -- just one game per match and everyone works through everyone. The main difference being, the incoming players break, and the table assignments are prescribed by who wins and the order on the master list??

Now I am definitely confused lol


No you misunderstood me. But actually just thought of a better way to keep track of it. We keep track of iterations (trips to a table) and you could never get put on the waiting list above somebody with fewer iterations.
 

youngstownkid

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The simple simple truth

No you misunderstood me. But actually just thought of a better way to keep track of it. We keep track of iterations (trips to a table) and you could never get put on the waiting list above somebody with fewer iterations.


So with this new iteration addendum there are no pitfalls that I can see at all. Then at the end of the day 2, we just need to identify a stopping point based on the iterations so that it’s fair. So sometime between 10 PM and 12 AM or something like that we stop at the change in iterations. So everybody would have the same equal number of chances to get called up, but not the same number of games played, as you can get an extra game or two each iteration if you win.
 
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NH Steve

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No you misunderstood me. But actually just thought of a better way to keep track of it. We keep track of iterations (trips to a table) and you could never get put on the waiting list above somebody with fewer iterations.
I could be wrong, but doesn't that mean everyone would then be waiting for the slowest players??
 

unoperro

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I could be wrong, but doesn't that mean everyone would then be waiting for the slowest players??
You are 100% right.
EVERYONE WAITS ON THE SSLLOOOW.:sorry
Only a shot clock works.
To all who say its not in the spirit of the game. You are correct but neither is trnmnt play. Fats said that all the time "playing for a tincup". No just match up and play for da moolah:)
 

Island Drive

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Max 2 hrs

Max 2 hrs

With WBT format 2 hrs. Max allowed for each match.

If the second game is still in play, turn in your score sheets.

Entire bucket chart will have matches Every 2 hrs starting on time.

You can push the pencil and set up your match times for the entire weekend before play starts. Sunday is different/races. No buys, ever. If a match gets done early, that table will then be open for warm up play. We would not need to JAM another match on that table because...the flo-chart has control of match TIMES. Matches CAN"T run long.
 

darmoose

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I'm kind of feeling like this chip tourney idea is starting to take me right back to the RR idea, but single games in the RR. That avoids all those little potential pitfalls, and only leaves us back with the initial issue -- slow players lol :D:D:D
Conversation sounds like we are nearing a vote. Not that I am authorized in any way, but for what it is worth I want to make it clear what format I am recommending for the poll, one that gives us plenty of play, is easily managed, has best potential to fit into our time constraints, and does not bastardize our game in any way.;)

There's been mucho discussion about why we are attending, and having oodles of time for matching up, and trying to control slow players, and whatever. The only good answer for slow players is a shot clock, and with the recently revealed app for a timer clock, that seems to be a simple solution.

I recommend for the poll (vote) this:

Round Robin for Friday and Saturday, involving 32 players divided into 4 groups of 8 players, each player playing 7 matches of 3 games each (total of 21 games), at 45 mins/game =15.75 hours (could be 6 hrs on Friday and 9.75 hrs on Sat.), at the conclusion of which an elimination finals (either dbl for 4 players or single for 8 players) is played on Sunday.

Each group, through a democratic or dictatorial process :lol with no time constraints, is responsible to complete their RR games in order to put a qualifier(s) into the finals. Should a group fail to complete their RR games, they may elect their entrant(s) into the finals, probably by unanimous vote only.

Slow play and slow players to be controlled by conjoling and shot clock by each group at their discretion. Ties to broken by head to head play.

KISS at work here.:D
 

mr3cushion

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Conversation sounds like we are nearing a vote. Not that I am authorized in any way, but for what it is worth I want to make it clear what format I am recommending for the poll, one that gives us plenty of play, is easily managed, has best potential to fit into our time constraints, and does not bastardize our game in any way.;)

There's been mucho discussion about why we are attending, and having oodles of time for matching up, and trying to control slow players, and whatever. The only good answer for slow players is a shot clock, and with the recently revealed app for a timer clock, that seems to be a simple solution.

I recommend for the poll (vote) this:

Round Robin for Friday and Saturday, involving 32 players divided into 4 groups of 8 players, each player playing 7 matches of 3 games each (total of 21 games), at 45 mins/game =15.75 hours (could be 6 hrs on Friday and 9.75 hrs on Sat.), at the conclusion of which an elimination finals (either dbl for 4 players or single for 8 players) is played on Sunday.

Each group, through a democratic or dictatorial process :lol with no time constraints, is responsible to complete their RR games in order to put a qualifier(s) into the finals. Should a group fail to complete their RR games, they may elect their entrant(s) into the finals, probably by unanimous vote only.

Slow play and slow players to be controlled by conjoling and shot clock by each group at their discretion. Ties to broken by head to head play.

KISS at work here.:D
ALL bold lettering! One way to try and force feed a thought! I guess there's a silver lining in almost anything, I didn't have to put on glasses to read this post! :rolleyes: :lol:lol:lol
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Darmoose, an excuse me, Steve, as it is directed to a comment you made, and I do not want to distract from your on going discussions on Chip, but I'd like to address this.

For me, now is not the time to vote, it is way to early, now is the time to develop suggestions, ideas, formats, and then when it is time to vote then lay out all the formats, fairly.

Now is the time for the DCC & sponsoring players, HOf, & Banquette, and then thereafter and in the few months prior to the MOT, should these discussions on MOT continue, with all formats laid out fairly. Right now Steve is working through a new Chip format, in which it will take time to get our heads rap around it. From now on, I believe Steve is going to be very busy with other concerns!

I believe, there is a core of players that always go to MOT, and their considerations on format has to be very much respected. And right now their heads are else where. That core is not actively involved in these discussions right now. We have approx. 5 maybe 6 members that have made up the majority of the 300 posts, at least the last 100 posts, of which I think only Steve and I attended the last MOT. So where is the interest for MOT players in voting now, there is none, IMO!

As far as the Senior's Event, I think it would be wise for those discussions to occur after the MOT tournament, especially if MOT decides to go with a RR format or something else other than a 3/3. Then a full evaluation can occur. Whitey
 
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mr3cushion

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Darmoose, an excuse me, Steve, as it is directed to a comment you made, and I do not want to distract from your on going discussions on Chip, but I'd like to address this.

For me, now is not the time to vote, it is way to early, now is the time to develop suggestions, ideas, formats, and then when it is time to vote then lay out all the formats, fairly.

Now is the time for the DCC & sponsoring players, HOf, & Banquette, and then thereafter and in the few months prior to the MOT, should these discussions on MOT continue, with all formats laid out fairly. Right now Steve is working through a new Chip format, in which it will take time to get our heads rap around it. From now on, I believe Steve is going to be very busy with other concerns!

I believe, there is a core of players that always go to MOT, and their considerations on format has to be very much respected. And right now their heads are else where. That core is not actively involved in these discussions right now. We have approx. 5 maybe 6 members that have made up the majority of the 300 posts, at least the last 100 posts, of which I think only Steve and I attended the last MOT. So where is the interest for MOT players in voting now, there is none, IMO! Whitey
Here, here! 100% on the money!
 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Here, here! 100% on the money!
Thanks, as Steve stated; "when the time comes 'to vote'. At that time lay out all the formats, fairly, which I have done as you know, and take a preliminary vote, and see where everyone is at. Like how they do it on a jury, to determine a starting point. Then open it up for discussions so voters know all the pros and cons, and then take a final vote.
The discussion could be lengthy, and right now unless there are some new RR suggestions, or new RR points that need to be made, then I think we are beating a dead RR horse, and we are on to DCC and all that goes with for now!

For me this is a now a Chip discussion! Whitey
 
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