The Bobby Riggs dump game

fred bentivegna

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ESPN is about to do a story they got from an old time golfer in his 80's. He has decided to come clean on the Bobby Riggs/Billie Jean King match. He said Riggs was in deep with gambling debts and "threw" the match to get even.

The people who have the Beard's Encyclopedia of Pool Hustlers already know that the Beard scooped ESPN months ago with the same revelation. The difference is that I was a little more specific re Bobby's reasons for the toss. Rather than trying to get out from gambling debts, Bobby went into the tank to help promote the fledgling Women's Pro Tennis Tour that boomed soon after he lost. Billionaire Lamar Hunt was behind the Womens Pro Tour.

I knew about the scam decades ago when I was informed by Marty Stanovich, aka The Fat Man, the greatest golf hustler of all time.

Beard
 

senor

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Do you know if this is going to be on "Outside the Lines" Freddy?
 

gulfportdoc

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I recall watching that match on TV Fred. And I thought then that Riggs had dumped. I was glad to read your post.

~Doc
 

tylerdurden

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I wonder if a dump in this case is an actual, technical breach of contract.
 

Toncam

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Heres a link to the ESPN article. I remember this match from when i was a kid, lots of trash talking by Riggs before hand. I wouldnt be surprised if he did go in the tank, they are claiming the boys were involved in it, but they always say that as it increases reader interest.

Does anyone remember the old tv series, The Odd Couple ? They had an episode on there with Riggs in it and Billie Jean made a guest appearance, lol.

http://espn.go.com/espn/feature/story/_/id/9589625/the-match-maker

Heres a small clip from the Odd Couple episode

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDLlKL-pemY[/ame]
 

Greyghost

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the real question is when is Freddy going to have his own "outside the lines" session on espn!

Tonight on outside the lines.....

Behind the hustle with Freddy B.


would be awesome
 

WillieNilly

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Dose anyone know the actual "line" on this match ? I guessing they had B.J.K. as the underdog.
And how much did Bobby have on her?....:D
 

Cowboy Dennis

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ESPN is about to do a story they got from an old time golfer in his 80's. He has decided to come clean on the Bobby Riggs/Billie Jean King match. He said Riggs was in deep with gambling debts and "threw" the match to get even.

The people who have the Beard's Encyclopedia of Pool Hustlers already know that the Beard scooped ESPN months ago with the same revelation. The difference is that I was a little more specific re Bobby's reasons for the toss. Rather than trying to get out from gambling debts, Bobby went into the tank to help promote the fledgling Women's Pro Tennis Tour that boomed soon after he lost. Billionaire Lamar Hunt was behind the Womens Pro Tour.

I knew about the scam decades ago when I was informed by Marty Stanovich, aka The Fat Man, the greatest golf hustler of all time.

Beard
Freddy,

This may just be one of those things that people will debate forever but think about one or two things: Do you really think that a 55 year old man could've beaten the 29 year old, 5-time Wimbledon champion, Billie Jean King? Use a little common sense.

Riggs's own son said his father never prepared for this match. The general consensus is that Riggs was looking to lose to set up a bigger payday down the road.


Larry Riggs said:
• With the 40th anniversary of the Battle of the Sexes looming, ESPN investigates whether Bobby Riggs tanked the match against Billie Jean King to satisfy a mafia debt.


“Did he know mafia guys? Absolutely,” Larry Riggs says. “Is it possible these guys were talking some s—? Yes, it is possible. They talked to him about doing it? Possible.” However, Riggs says, it was more likely his father purposefully lost with an eye toward setting up a bigger payday rematch — and a continuation of the national publicity that he so craved — than throw the match for mob money. Larry Riggs also says he remains baffled by the fact his father did not prepare for the King match — the only match in Bobby Riggs’ life for which he had failed to train. “Never understood it,” Larry Riggs says.

http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0920.html

I believe Riggs was trying to help Womens tennis and help himself.

Dennis
 

fred bentivegna

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Freddy,

This may just be one of those things that people will debate forever but think about one or two things: Do you really think that a 55 year old man could've beaten the 29 year old, 5-time Wimbledon champion, Billie Jean King? Use a little common sense.

Riggs's own son said his father never prepared for this match. The general consensus is that Riggs was looking to lose to set up a bigger payday down the road.





http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/big/0920.html

I believe Riggs was trying to help Womens tennis and help himself.

Dennis
You have apparently overlooked the fact that he demolished the #1 ranked female player Margaret Court just a few months earlier. Billie Jean was the #2 ranked player.

Beard

My opinion comes from talking to people who knew him intimately, a few months after the match. People like Marty Stanovich, the Fat Man, someone who gambled with Bobby all the time.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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ESPN is about to do a story they got from an old time golfer in his 80's. He has decided to come clean on the Bobby Riggs/Billie Jean King match. He said Riggs was in deep with gambling debts and "threw" the match to get even.

The people who have the Beard's Encyclopedia of Pool Hustlers already know that the Beard scooped ESPN months ago with the same revelation. The difference is that I was a little more specific re Bobby's reasons for the toss. Rather than trying to get out from gambling debts, Bobby went into the tank to help promote the fledgling Women's Pro Tennis Tour that boomed soon after he lost. Billionaire Lamar Hunt was behind the Womens Pro Tour.

I knew about the scam decades ago when I was informed by Marty Stanovich, aka The Fat Man, the greatest golf hustler of all time.

Beard
You have apparently overlooked the fact that he demolished the #1 ranked female player Margaret Court just a few months earlier. Billie Jean was the #2 ranked player.

Beard

My opinion comes from talking to people who knew him intimately, a few months after the match. People like Marty Stanovich, the Fat Man, someone who gambled with Bobby all the time.
Freddy,

I've overlooked nothing, I know all about the "Battle of the Sexes" tennis matches. Riggs played Court 2 out of 3 and won the 1st two sets. When he played BJK they played best out of 5. Big difference to a 55 year old man who didn't prepare for the match.

BJK, after seeing Court lose prepared properly for the match, according to all reports. She won the 1st three sets in a row to beat Riggs.

Riggs used lobs & drop shots to throw Court off-balance but when he tried that shit with BJK she made the return shots and had him running all over the court.

I don't believe that Riggs "went into the tank" intentionally but who of us will ever know? I think he simply got beat and then tried to make the best of it. The winner of the Riggs/BJK match won $100,000 and the loser got nothing. Maybe the rumors of Riggs dumping the match to pay off gambling debts was the reason BJK refused a rematch even though it was required in their contract.

All in all, I don't really care too much about Riggs' motives, we'll never know for certain but I do know this for a fact; Women's tennis boomed after these challenge matches and the women started making more money too. Soon they were making equal money to the men which had never happened before. Riggs, for whatever selfish or non-selfish reasons helped to propel women's tennis to the forefront.

Regarding your mention of "talking to people who knew him intimately". Do you think a guy who had lost to a woman in front of the biggest stadium audience ever (for a tennis match) and an estimated 90 million worldwide, would then tell the truth to friends & acquaintances?

These intimate acquaintances were probably lied to and know nothing more than anyone else about Riggs' actions or motives.

Either way, I think you and I agree that Riggs wanted to help women's tennis and didn't mind making a fool of himself to accomplish just that.

Dennis
 

fred bentivegna

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Freddy,

I've overlooked nothing, I know all about the "Battle of the Sexes" tennis matches. Riggs played Court 2 out of 3 and won the 1st two sets. When he played BJK they played best out of 5. Big difference to a 55 year old man who didn't prepare for the match.

BJK, after seeing Court lose prepared properly for the match, according to all reports. She won the 1st three sets in a row to beat Riggs.

Riggs used lobs & drop shots to throw Court off-balance but when he tried that shit with BJK she made the return shots and had him running all over the court.

I don't believe that Riggs "went into the tank" intentionally but who of us will ever know? I think he simply got beat and then tried to make the best of it. The winner of the Riggs/BJK match won $100,000 and the loser got nothing. Maybe the rumors of Riggs dumping the match to pay off gambling debts was the reason BJK refused a rematch even though it was required in their contract.

All in all, I don't really care too much about Riggs' motives, we'll never know for certain but I do know this for a fact; Women's tennis boomed after these challenge matches and the women started making more money too. Soon they were making equal money to the men which had never happened before. Riggs, for whatever selfish or non-selfish reasons helped to propel women's tennis to the forefront.

Regarding your mention of "talking to people who knew him intimately". Do you think a guy who had lost to a woman in front of the biggest stadium audience ever (for a tennis match) and an estimated 90 million worldwide, would then tell the truth to friends & acquaintances?

These intimate acquaintances were probably lied to and know nothing more than anyone else about Riggs' actions or motives.

Either way, I think you and I agree that Riggs wanted to help women's tennis and didn't mind making a fool of himself to accomplish just that.

Dennis
Marty Stanovich was one of the smartest hustlers who ever lived. Him falling for a bullshit story was not applicable. Those kinds of people dont believe the sun is going to come up in the morning unless they get to see it for themselves.

Beard

100k, winner take all, sounds a little smelly too, wouldnt you say? Bobby Riggs was a stone thief, con man, and hard core SS man. No way he would play and take a chance to get nothing. You did notice that mysteriously, there was no rematch, even tho it was in their contract?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Marty Stanovich was one of the smartest hustlers who ever lived. Him falling for a bullshit story was not applicable. Those kinds of people dont believe the sun is going to come up in the morning unless they get to see it for themselves.

Beard

100k, winner take all, sounds a little smelly too, wouldnt you say? Bobby Riggs was a stone thief, con man, and hard core SS man. No way he would play and take a chance to get nothing. You did notice that mysteriously, there was no rematch, even tho it was in their contract?
Freddy,

Riggs either got beat legitimately by a woman or...

He dumped the match to satisfy gambling debts to the mob or...

He dumped the match to set-up a rematch with more $$$ or...

He got beat legitimately and claimed to have dumped to save face.

Pick one:)


This ain't the Kennedy assassination investigation:D.

P.S. Conmen & hustlers & liars are usually the easiest to fool.

Dennis
 

androd

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P.S. Conmen & hustlers & liars are usually the easiest to fool.

Dennis
They're always suspicious, they think everyone else would do the same things they do.
I learned early whom ever was worried about being cheated, had already cheated someone else.
Rod.
 

Toncam

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A little more on the dump

A little more on the dump

Battle of the Sexes and the Mafia Fix

By Scott M. Deitche

Scott M. Deitche is the author of five books on organized crime including Cigar City Mafia: A Complete History of the Tampa Underworld and The Silent Don: The World of Santo Trafficante Jr. He also has written dozens of articles on organized crime for national magazines and newspapers. Dietche has been featured on The Discovery Channel, The History Channel, A&E, C-SPAN and national news and radio shows. Dietche will be writing blogs for The Mob Museum on a regular basis.

In late August 2013, ESPN posted a story on its website that quickly made news outside the sports world. The story centered on the famous 1973 Battle of the Sexes match between Billie Jean King and Bobby Riggs. But there was a twist. According to the story, mobsters plotted to have Riggs throw the match to erase over $100,000 in gambling debts he owed to the Mafia.

According to a 78-year old Tampa resident Hal Shaw, back in the last week of 1972 or the first week of 1973, he was at the Palma Ceia Golf & Country Club in South Tampa late one night after work when he heard four men come in. He hid, but not before recognizing three of the men as Tampa Mob boss Santo Trafficante Jr., his lawyer Frank Ragano and New Orleans Mob boss Carlos Marcello. An unidentified fourth man accompanied them. Shaw said he heard them discuss Riggs’ gambling debt and how they were going to fix the match and make money off the results.

The overall theme of the story is very plausible. Ken Sanz, an organized crime expert who investigated the Mafia in Tampa and South Florida for 30 years, said that the Mob will often get their hooks in to athletes who have gambling debts and use that leverage to have games thrown.

The ties between the mobsters were also well-known. Santo Trafficante Jr. and Carlos Marcello were close compatriots in crime and friends who frequently visited each other in Tampa and New Orleans. Those ties were cemented in law enforcement’s eyes when Trafficante, Marcello, and Ragano were found meeting in 1966 with top bosses of the New York Mafia at La Stella restaurant in Queens. Carlos’s brother Joseph was so close to Tampa mobsters, that he was the best man at the 1963 wedding of Augstine Lazzara, one of Trafficante’s top capos and continued as the liaison between New Orleans and Tampa after Carlos’ death in 1993

But did Trafficante and Marcello meet in late 1972 or early 1973 in Tampa? First off, there are no FBI records that mention this meeting at all and no mention in Marcello’s files of a trip to Tampa during that time period. That’s not conclusive by any means. Though the FBI were following Trafficante and Marcello frequently, the mobsters regularly managed to stay one step ahead of the law and run their respective crime families with minimal law enforcement disruption.

In regards to Ragano, those who know him doubt the story. His son told The Tampa Bay Times that his family wasn’t even living in Tampa at that time and that his father never mentioned the story to him despite Frank having opened up about a lot of his past dealings. In his book Mob Lawyer, Frank Ragano talks about everything from Trafficante’s operations to Santo’s alleged involvement in the JFK assassination. According to his co-author Selwyn Raab, Ragano never brought up the Riggs fix story, which would have certainly added some extra marketing cache for the project.

The information on Trafficante during that time period is more detailed. According to an internal FBI memo dated September 12, 1975, “Trafficante left his Miami residence in late 1972 and not again physically observed in the United States until late 1974. During this Period Trafficante travelled extensively in Europe, Venezuela, Panama and Costa Rica.” Another FBI memo relates that “On October 17, 1973, MM T2 (a confidential informant) advised that Santo Trafficante was residing in Catania, Italy, which is on the island of Sicily. According to the source, Trafficante has been residing there for approximately six months.” There are no memos or internal FBI documents that show Trafficante in Tampa at that time. Tampa Police and Sheriff’s department records from that time period have mostly been purged, so little record remains of local law enforcement surveillance.

The evidence that Mr. Shaw saw the meeting during that time period is flimsy. And there are other questions. Why did Mr. Shaw wait 40 years? Could it have been other local crime figures (Santo’s younger brother was heavily involved in bookmaking and resembled the Mob chief)? Who actually got with Riggs to arrange the fix?

While it will never be definitively proven one way or another, it’s unlikely that Santo Trafficante Jr. met with Marcello and Ragano during the time period recalled by Mr. Shaw. But it's entirely possible the Mafia pushed a fix with Bobby Riggs. After all, that’s what they do.
 

Scrzbill

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While what you say may be gossip or true. One hustler says something "he knows" to another hustler. Like filipino Gene used to say, hustlers are always hustling, even when their not playing. Setting up the mark is an all day affair. It's like in sales, ABC Always Be Closing. same thing in pool just replace hustling with closing.
My opinion: (if I'm allowed to have one with out personal attacks)
Bobby lost the match because he was the inferior player. He then used the excuse he lost on purpose to keep from losing face to his friends. He didnt have to worry about any gambling bets, ABC or whoever promoted the match paid both of them handsomely. Riggs had some trick shots that was his game. he was old for a tennis player facing a pro in her prime. the shots he played best didn't work when he played Billy Jean because she was so dominant.
Who really cares?
Besmirching someone years later serves what purpose?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Battle of the Sexes and the Mafia Fix

By Scott M. Deitche

According to the story, mobsters plotted to have Riggs throw the match to erase over $100,000 in gambling debts he owed to the Mafia...


...it's entirely possible the Mafia pushed a fix with Bobby Riggs. After all, that’s what they do.
According to the interview I listened to with mob-type dude Michael Franzese that is specifically what the Mob does not do.

He made it very clear that the Mob only wanted their money from whoever owed it but they had no interest in fixing games or any other sporting events.

It did surprise me when he said that but think about the logistics of keeping all those tabs on all those players and keeping all those mouths shut.

It's not likely the Mob tried to get Riggs to dump in their favor.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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While what you say may be gossip or true. One hustler says something "he knows" to another hustler. Like filipino Gene used to say, hustlers are always hustling, even when their not playing. Setting up the mark is an all day affair. It's like in sales, ABC Always Be Closing. same thing in pool just replace hustling with closing.
My opinion: (if I'm allowed to have one with out personal attacks)
Bobby lost the match because he was the inferior player. He then used the excuse he lost on purpose to keep from losing face to his friends. He didnt have to worry about any gambling bets, ABC or whoever promoted the match paid both of them handsomely. Riggs had some trick shots that was his game. he was old for a tennis player facing a pro in her prime. the shots he played best didn't work when he played Billy Jean because she was so dominant.
Who really cares?
Besmirching someone years later serves what purpose?
Try paying attention. It was a "Winner Take All" match.

If you don't care then why comment on it?

Dennis
 

Scrzbill

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Try paying attention. It was a "Winner Take All" match.

If you don't care then why comment on it?

Dennis
You come through every time Dennis. Like I said it was my personal opinion if I can have one with out personal attacks.
Winner takes all means nothing if they are getting promotional fees and although a winner take all prize was thrown out as bait, neither one would have shown up with some guarantees.
Your personal attacks are a reason many don't want to post on onepocket.org
Taking personal shots shows weak character and lack of argument.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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You come through every time Dennis. Like I said it was my personal opinion if I can have one with out personal attacks.
Winner takes all means nothing if they are getting promotional fees and although a winner take all prize was thrown out as bait, neither one would have shown up with some guarantees.
Your personal attacks are a reason many don't want to post on onepocket.org
Taking personal shots shows weak character and lack of argument.
Dear Skeezer,

How many posts of yours shall I show to show your "weak character & lack of argument"?

P.S. My post was not a "personal attack". You are an idiot (<<<----personal attack).

P.Ps. "Winner Takes All" means exactly that. You can't change it with your meandering ramblings.

Dennis
 

Skin

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Today is the 40th anniversary of that made-for-TV spectacle. I watched it then and thought it was stupid. Still do.

Skin
 
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