- Jun 25, 2004
Where's Fred? Did he move to China? Surely he wouldn't want to miss this scintillating thread on pocket size!
NO Freddy is Ok he just didnt like people ganging up on him. His Feelings got hurt. But Freedy is great for pool and next too fasts I like hus storiers the best.gulfportdoc said:Where's Fred? Did he move to China? Surely he wouldn't want to miss this scintillating thread on pocket size!
I ca say this for sure people raly can get tempramentale when you dont give in too them. And the quite because they dont want no more. And self daought is a terrible person too deal with.gulfportdoc said:Where's Fred? Did he move to China? Surely he wouldn't want to miss this scintillating thread on pocket size!
Artie Bodendorfer said:NO Freddy is Ok he just didnt like people ganging up on him. His Feelings got hurt. But Freedy is great for pool and next too fasts I like hus storiers the best.
I told him people are always going too say something thats life. BUt some people hold on too the anger and hatred twords people.
And they give thier power away. Thats what people do all the time. THe think by avoiding them or not talking too them thats the thing to do.
All I can say take your power back and tell them how you feel. You dont even have to respond to thier posts or treads. Just keep telling them what they are and what you think off them.
You dont have too get in a relatoinship or debate with them. SAy what you want too say. close the dor too them be strong and dont respond to anything they say.
They will get the message. bUt I dont think Freddy can do that. He is too amotionan person. And he lets his feelings get in the way.
And You have to face and chalange whatever bothers you or whatever the problem is or it will eat on you forever. Like CAncer. The longer you waite the harder and worse it will be.
Freddy is a good person and he is way more honest then 98% off the pool players. And the dishonest pool players no who they are.
Freddy just has too many good feelings in his heart. And I never seen Freddy treay anyone like a sucker even if they were a sucker. And Freddy always played on the square.
Maybe if someone would right a post for Freddy too come back like dock. Who is very fair and honest. And we all sign it and not pick on Freddy Maybe he will come back. I realy dont no.
Its not stuberness or pride. He just feels like nobody likes him. He knowes I like him no matter what I say or even if we argue its nothing personal. Its about who will win the debaite.
But I can honestly say something drove him too the limit. And we all say things out off line when we are not thinking and just reacting. And sometimes I wish I could take it all back.
BUT in Life saying IM sorry does not change it and does not make it wright. LOt off people say there sorry. But what are the sorry about sorry what the did or sorry for themselves.
You can get in a car axccedent and kill someone and say your sorry for what happened and you will be sorry for your whole life.
Being sorry doesnt change anything.And saying I am sorry doesnt make it wright. What does saying sorry realy do? THier just words. Are the words what should make us feel better.
You show by how you act and what affect did it have on you. Or are you going to waite for next time when something happines again and say you are sorry. How many Im sorrys do we get to say in our life time.
Or maybe there will the sorriest person in the world. But it will not change anything saying Im sorry doesnt make it wright.
I had hoped to clear the air with Fred, (one way or the other) at the DCC this year, but it was not to be. I don't need to go into great detail, like Artie did, but I do wish Fred would mellow out a little. I am wondering if maybe he has come to realize, that his computer personna is, (like mine)...maybe a little less than perfect !...I am not the only one who he has had words with....but he has made no bones about how he feels about me, and I can't change that if I wanted to.CaliRed said:I've let it be known several times, that I like both Dick and the Beard. I have no say in the their online discussions, so I keep out of it. I was secretly hoping that at the Derby, both of them would have cleared the air and moved on. Sadly, Dick wasn't feeling well enough to attend, so that ended up not being a possibility.
One observation I made at the Derby, was that the Derby is a special event, in that a lot of guys get to come together once a year and enjoy each other's company like the old days. Freddy was right at home then, and it was a joy to see all these guys sit around and catch up. I believe that interaction is their highlight and I could see why.
Every day or night, during the whole Derby, you could always find a bunch of guys seated at some of the tables, laughing and having a grand time.
This shot is one of those times, Jimmy Mataya (just out of the picture on Freddie's right), Freddy, Billy and Truman were having a lot of fun together. I'll post the video later.
Time is too short, let's agree to disagree on some things and move past the old days of bickering, whether it's in good fun or not. I know, I know, you're both grown men, so that's why I'll keep my piehole shut
I had a good time with Freddy and I really missed meeting up with Dick. I wanted to bust his chops and I wanted him to bust mine. I hope I can find a way to go next year, cuz next time I'm going not going to wait to be invited to a table, I'll just pull up a chair anyways.
Rod is also on my "lean on" list for next year too
View attachment 2505
SJDinPHX said:I had hoped to clear the air with Fred, (one way or the other) at the DCC this year, but it was not to be. I don't need to go into great detail, like Artie did, but I do wish Fred would mellow out a little. I am wondering if maybe he has come to realize, that his computer personna is, (like mine)...maybe a little less than perfect !!!...He has made no bones about how he feels about me, and I can't change that if I wanted to.
Our personality clash escalated further, than I think either one of us wanted, but a lot of heat was exchanged, both ways...He thinks I am 100% to blame but we all know thats not the way it unfolded. Artie and I have had a few words too, from time to time, but we were able to move past it, and get along fine now. (I think ?) AB has a little tougher hide, and I can respect that.
All that being said, I refuse to feel guilty, or take the blame for him hardly posting anymore..It is his decision, and his alone.
That's a hell of a slice of real life and puts a different perspective on my day...Artie Bodendorfer said:You will like this on Dick when I first came to this country we lived in slums.
Because thats all my parents could aford. We lived in a filty basement.
And onw morning I woke up screaming I was about 9 years old the Rats were we lived were bitting on my arms and legs.
My mother took me too the doctor.
And she asket the doctor what she should do he said for her too move. So we did a nother filty naborhood and a basement apartment.
But WE didnt have any rats thier soo I guess it was better. When you are young like that you dont have much off a choice.
But I never forgot that. And I dont like RAys. Especaly human Rats that the goverment lives off ove. But that makes you think a little different about life and other people.
But we eay and had a roff over our head and we dont need no more then that. Its amazing what people go through in life.
And going too school not speacking English wasant a pick nick either. I use too get my first cloths out off the lost and found my teacher in south Heaven MIchigan gave me a war jacket that had a few holes.
And a paur off pants a little too big. A pait off shoes and a couple off sox with holes in them.
And I went home and showed me what my teacher gave me and she was as happy as a smilling 3 year old baby. And the next day I brought my teacher a nice red apple.
And I rubed it all the way too school to make it shine more. But thats when we were called DPS.
Back in those days if someone didnt sign for you to come to America you couldntb come into the country. Someone had too sign for you.
One thing I can tell you no matter were you come from. You never forget were you came from.
And kids are 20 times worse then whats on the internet. My mother took my brother out off school thats howc tough it was. But I always got along with everyone. And I was a good looking kid and I was a great athlet.
And if you have those credentials everyone likes you . The girls and sports is very big. But one off my broeher wasant that lucky and he wasant any good at sports and all the did was make fun off him and abuse hum.
And on top off that the stupitity back then was unblivebale. Imagine butting a 13 year old in with 8 year olds. And he is a foot taller then everyone and he wore is old German cloths.
How do you but a 13 year old kid in school with 3 graders. But thats what it was. And the only thing that counts is now. I wish I had a cpld beer her now I think I would realy enjoy it.
Dick, it might surprise you and some of the other guys, to know that it was not you who was the subject of Fred's decision to take a hiatus from the 1po forums. It's not my place to discuss Fred's feelings. But I'd hate to see you and the guys get the wrong impression established.SJDinPHX said:I had hoped to clear the air with Fred, (one way or the other) at the DCC this year, but it was not to be. I don't need to go into great detail, like Artie did, but I do wish Fred would mellow out a little. I am wondering if maybe he has come to realize, that his computer personna is, (like mine)...maybe a little less than perfect !...I am not the only one who he has had words with....but he has made no bones about how he feels about me, and I can't change that if I wanted to.
Speaking of rats, I had a mouse in my house. I tried to not kill him because I love animals, but I did everything I could go get rid of it. I bought four Havahart traps, after speaking with you, Steve, on the phone a few months ago. I set them all up with peanut butter bait in the evening before I went to bed. My mouse must have a high IQ. The next day, all the peanut butter bait was gone, but the doors were still wide open. He figured out how to get in and out without getting caught. It was as if I set up a Mouse Drive-In for my dreaded guest.NH Steve said:That's a hell of a slice of real life and puts a different perspective on my day...
...and I'd also like to chime in to encourage Freddy back. Can't be worse than getting bit by rats
JAM said:Freddy, you are definitely missed. Come back in due time when you're good and ready. You are fortunate to have family that loves you. Some people live an entire lifetime and end up with nobody to share their heart with. You're lucky, Freddy. We'll all be here if and when you come back. I think it is nice that people here think enough of you to care about how you're doing. You are, indeed, a rich man to have the best of all worlds.
Terry Ardeno said:JAM, one of the best paragraphs ever penned here. Good words indeed!
Fred, you know by now how many fans & friends you have here and in the pool world. Same goes for Grady, Billy, SJD, John Henderson, Jay, etc. All of us know we have some who like us and some who don't. Every member here & at AZB has friends & foes. Nothing new under the sun.
Freddy, there's a couple of members here (Oldschool & Bill Stroud) who I've disagreed with in some threads, but I got nothing against them personally. If I ever met them in person, I'm sure we could have a nice talk. Not everybody is always going to agree with everything we say or how we may see things. But that's ok. We can still be buds.
Likewise, just because two members may have a little feud going on, those of us outside that feud can't be expected to take sides when we like both parties.
Whenever you're done resting up, refreshing, taking a break, cooking up a fresh batch of spaghetti & meatballs or whatever, there'll be MANY of us here waiting for your return.
Difference between guys like you, Grady, SJD, Billy, etc is that when you guys are missing, people take notice. If I'm not posting here for a few weeks, nobody even knows it. And that's kinda how it should be. But when the big guns are silent, we notice.
That in itself should mean something to you guys.
PS-Reading your blog and checking in your site (http://www.bankingwiththebeard.com/) just ain't the same as reading your stuff here or at AZB. So please, hurry back.
PSS-And all other members here, please stay put! These mushy posts are tough to write!
Artie Bodendorfer said:Freddy how could you leave your pool family. Thats your whole life. And if you come back I will give you a one pocket secret. But you cant give it out.
And if your scared dont come back. But I will tell you exacly how it is.
Its not wright staying away from your friends and people you have known all your life You owe it to them too keep talking and comunicating with them.
And I am your friend. I am not asking you too come back as a friend because our friendship has nothing too do with you comeing back or not.
But to comunicate with your friends and people who enjoy listning too you is something you will never be able too make up. You dont have a hundred years left to see and talk too your friends.
And not too be a part off thier lives is a decision you have to make. But dont have your friends pay the price for you not being thier for them.
And Further more all the hard work and time you but in on this site. Should not have been done in vain. All your contrabutions and all the thigs you have shared and helped people with.
You need to reinfore all the things you have said and done. Dont let all youre hard work be in vain. Stand up for all the good things you have said and done.
Your friends are with you and you are not alone. If words can keep us away. Then we need to face what we dont like and no matter what was said or will be said.
You helpet make this site what it is. If we live in America are going to let some one chase us out off the country because what the asy.
You are a sodier and you fought for your country. Now its time for you too fight for what you belive in. And I belive that you can do this. I hope you dont take the other road and Surender.
You are are a part off this whole site. And it does not matter if everyone would be against you. Give your opinion and keep doing what you did when you first started.
Ab to a real friend. Dont waite tell its too late you dont want too go out like this.
Forever young. To Freddy.
usblues said:Just left Freddie at the airport yesterday in Sweet Home Chicago.He was heading to Thailand,one-way.Got a contract to teach tonk and 3-cushion to a group of thai gangsters in the hills next to Burma.He had a suitcase of DVD's and T-shirts just in case they dont show he can still make some money in the countryside.He said to say to his people here he was in a hurry and would make contact from Bangkok or Rangoon or wherever they have internet access.I think his contact who called herself Celestial Flower will be there to take him to the opium warlords who recently hauled a 10' table up the mountains but dont know how to use it.I dont know how he learned of this but he suggested he heard from an old Army buddy,Field Marshal Montez who passed on the news via courier on a Pan Am flight and he just smiled and took off.Thats all I know today.Lets see what tomorrow brings.Or as John Coltrane says" Dont do anything till you hear from me and you know you never will",cheers,James
Thanks for that update!!! Have him send back some of that opium in a hollowed out compartment in a Banking With The Beard book . I've never tried that, and before I go I want to say I've tried everything. Except the "H".. no desire for that oneusblues said:Just left Freddie at the airport yesterday in Sweet Home Chicago.He was heading to Thailand,one-way.Got a contract to teach tonk and 3-cushion to a group of thai gangsters in the hills next to Burma.He had a suitcase of DVD's and T-shirts just in case they dont show he can still make some money in the countryside.He said to say to his people here he was in a hurry and would make contact from Bangkok or Rangoon or wherever they have internet access.I think his contact who called herself Celestial Flower will be there to take him to the opium warlords who recently hauled a 10' table up the mountains but dont know how to use it.I dont know how he learned of this but he suggested he heard from an old Army buddy,Field Marshal Montez who passed on the news via courier on a Pan Am flight and he just smiled and took off.Thats all I know today.Lets see what tomorrow brings.Or as John Coltrane says" Dont do anything till you hear from me and you know you never will",cheers,James
Bugs just called me he wanted too play Freddy some bamks. On a 5 by 10. I told Bugs Freddy is resting. He said he can do that forever when hes gone.CaliRed said:
Why not just let the man's words speak for themselves?gulfportdoc said:Dick, it might surprise you and some of the other guys, to know that it was not you who was the subject of Fred's decision to take a hiatus from the 1po forums. It's not my place to discuss Fred's feelings. But I'd hate to see you and the guys get the wrong impression established.
fred bentivegna said:...What did Jeremy do from there? How did the game turn out. Did Buddy ever get completely out of the trap and turn the position around?
fred bentivegna said:Nobody, including Artie, made any comment on my disclosure of Artie's use of the psyche weapon I discussed. (Making believe that you did more than you really did)
All I know is that I won way more games with strategy and psychology, than firing in long hard shots.
The scary thing is the dearth of interest in the psyche side of the game.
fred bentivegna said:Funny you mention that. When I hung around the Rack in Detroit 70s, 80s, I had a whole passel of shortstop customers that I played 10 to 7. But there was one thing I always insisted on, and that was spotting up two balls and going to 8. Usually nobody even noticed that I could have only spotted up one. If they insisted I only spot up one, then there was no game. The difference between spotting one or two was tremendous. Aside from the fact that you can keep more balls in play to run, many times the two ball spot works out to be a trap or at minimum a blocker, for your oppo.
Cowboy Dennis said:Freddy,
It must have been really nice to play people so stupid that they let you go to 8, for 30 years, in a 10-7 game. Like I said, morons.
It must also have been very nice to play people so mentally weak that you could "make believe that you did more than you really did" and this could turn the game in your favor.
Unfortunately for me I was usually playing people that weren't idiots. They knew that in a 10-7 game I should spot 1 and go to 9. The few times that I was receiving 10-7 I knew that the other guy spots 1 and goes to 9 too.
I don't know how to "pretend" that I did more than I really did. The balls speak for themselves, I look at the balls on the table and that's how I find out what happened, I don't look into my opponents eyes to discern anything, except when he's on his last barrel or scared. I can't fool a person who just has to look at the table to see where the balls are, unless he's a moron. I never had the luxury of playing too many morons though.
fred bentivegna said:It is obvious that no one is really interested in the inner game of pool so I will easily withdraw. What do I know anyway? No skin off my nose.
I will also withdraw from any more,"Whatta-ya-do-here's." They give me brain farts anyway. There is as much Flaming here as there is between me and the Duck. Me no need it.
Now I got Artie looking to make a flame case. He knocked my choice and ridiculed my logic, and then gets an attitude when I give him some feedback on his choice of placing the cue ball in front of the 2 balls along Buddys rail. After 50 yrs of playing all morons, I am set in my ways and I aint looking to debate my shot choices, so I will no longer offer any.
If there is still anybody that has a concern of what I think about certain things they can access me privately.
Cowboy Dennis said:Freddy,
You complain that nobody comments on your posts(not the first time) and then you piss & moan when I do. I didn't do anything but state facts, I didn't even tease you. I never played people stupid enough to fall for the ideas you suggested and I said so. Do you ever see anybody else complain that nobody commented on their ideas? We toss ideas out there and sometimes they are picked up and sometimes not.
As for you withdrawing from the "what would you do heres", as Yogi Berra would have said: "If you don't wanna participate in the 'what would you dos', nobody's gonna stop you". You've rarely ever commented on them anyway, much like your AccuStats commentary where you usually don't blabber all over the shot(beforehand) like the other annoying commentators do. You also don't usually lock yourself in to a particular shot there either.
Addressing your comment about the inner-game of pool: I can give you and anybody I ever met in a poolroom the 7,8 & the break when it comes to the mental aspect of playing ANY game so don't go thinking you've got the market cornered there either. The majority of the posters here are fun/cheap players, the mental aspect of the game doesn't mean much until the fire is on high, that's when things start to meltdown.
AB said he only looked at the balls when he came to the table, it didn't matter who he was playing. That's probably not completely accurate but it's a good start for someone working on their mental game. We, of course, must consider who we are playing to decide what to leave but the general idea of "playing the balls" not the opponent is a good place to start.
To your comment that AB knocked your choice & ridiculed your logic:That's what AB do. It's not our concern, it's between him and you, why involve us? You made comments about nobody challenging AB on this forum except the Ghost, I think you have a very selective memory. I was the first person ever on this forum that AB admitted to, that my shot was correct and his was wrong. That took some doing but when he finally saw the light(not often) he admitted he was wrong.
Freddy, if you do respond to this post, please be nice. If you can only respond with vitriol and scorn for anything I've written I'd rather not read it at all.
fred bentivegna said:"...Give me the 7,8,9 and the break in the inner game?" Should I chalk that up as un-vitriolic and un-scornful (and unchallenging?)? If so, then I respectfully disagree -- vehemently.
How nice were you being by saying everybody I played had to be a moron?
Kinda presumptuous aint it? No other answer available of how I got to do things my way? I couldnt have been a good manager or experienced game maker?
Cowboy Dennis said:The 7,8 & the break statement is neither vitriolic nor scornful, and it's certainly not a challenge(how could we ever prove it now?) it's simply a statement of fact. Just because I wasn't a top player doesn't mean that I couldn't out-think them or play my speed or better against them. I did exactly those things, many times but not always. Judging by your posts the last 2 years I would say that you are not strong mentally. Your game had serious up & down swings as you've stated many times. You used pharmaceuticals to help you perform as you've stated many times. You get hot at the drop of a hat. These are not the signs of a mentally tough player. My game never had up & down swings and I couldn't even drink coffee while playing because it made me so wired. I played on the natch for 30 years and have no excuses for my losses and take no credit for my wins. I rarely think of either.
Anybody who let you go to 8 when you were giving them 10-7 was a moron. That's another statement of fact. How could you possibly argue that? I'm sure you don't think highly of their intelligence, do you? You referred to them as a "passel of shortstops". They were idiots. If you want to claim credit for playing idiots for 30 years that's up to you. My statement is neither nice nor un-nice, I just stated what I thought of any player who would let anybody do that, that's all.
P.S. Thanks for a very humorous reply . I knew you had it in you .
fred bentivegna said:Dennis, you dont know me from shit, so I resent all your conclusions, and all your "statement of facts." Its all condescending pontification. Plus, they are mean-spirited, insulting, and uncalled for. Who asked for a psychological evaluation from you? Mentally weak? Maybe you haven't noticed but I have made no such conclusions or statement of facts as to your proclivities, intelligence, or anything of a personal nature--- just as I don't do to anybody unless they confront me personally.
I'm going to hold my tongue and not reply with the actual vitriol that I am feeling right now. I dont care if you reply or not. I'm not getting dragged into more flame shit.
As a matter of fact this forum is no longer a pleasant experience for me and with the HOF election over, I feel no further need to participate and get more aggravated.
Cowboy Dennis said:Freddy,
Then I guess it's safe for me to assume that the next time you make a post like the one below, you'll know what's coming. I post these layouts for the enjoyment of people on this site, including servicemen overseas, and anyone who feels a need to ridicule them and the work I put into them should go away for awhile.
For anyone who cares enough to read the entire thread:http://onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=4612&highlight=Buddy+Hall+vs.+Jeremy+Jones+1998fred bentivegna said:...What did Jeremy do from there? How did the game turn out. Did Buddy ever get completely out of the trap and turn the position around?