Testing your stroke

mr3cushion

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I don't remember if I posted this before.

This is, IMHO, a pretty difficult shot. You need both balls, the CB and another ball are frozen on the rail. Ball on the spot,with a very difficult angle to swing the CB over to get position on the frozen ball on the end cushion at the 1st diamond by your opponents pocket.

The difficulty is, being able to softly half-follow thru the ball on the spot with extreme English! If you hit it to hard, the 'carom' widens and is impossible to swing across the table towards the bottom rail to play the last ball.

Maybe some guys can try the shot and let me know what YOU think!

I really, 'over-cooked' the shot!

P.S. Take note, frame by frame of the shaft following thru the CB.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=htDS3j5Ovfg

 

Dennis "Whitey" Young

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Buddy Hall was at one time doing intermission high tech shots like this one, and similar to Ewa Lawrence did during televised matches. He hit this shot, although set up different and farther down the table, so that the cue ball comes backwards and contact the side rail past the side pocket then comes off the side rail and arks towards the end rail, like a half masse'. He used 11 0'clock high and stroked angled down on the cb, partial masse'.

thanks for the thread and this great shot, Mr. 3 Cushion. Whitey
 
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Patrick Johnson

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That would be full-follow thru for me - or did I misunderstand what you mean?

pj
chgo
Pat, you don't follow-thru more than 5" on any shot?
I tried this shot several times this morning (couldn't get the CB much below the first diamond) - my follow-thru was about the same as yours, which is about normal for me for that shot (not consciously shortened).

That's what "I" followed-thru on this one!
Different strokes... I've always admired yours, Billy. I'm guessing you keep your follow-thru shorter on this shot to avoid overpowering the CB?

pj
chgo
 

mr3cushion

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I tried this shot several times this morning (couldn't get the CB much below the first diamond) - my follow-thru was about the same as yours, which is about normal for me for that shot (not consciously shortened).


Different strokes... I've always admired yours, Billy. I'm guessing you keep your follow-thru shorter on this shot to avoid overpowering the CB?

pj
chgo
I could deliver a 12'' - 14" follow-thru on this shot, and NOT over power the CB!

It's all in the correct, timing, tempo, speed and delivery! ;) This shot contrary probably by most doesn't require a BIG stroke! Just the correct stroke! Did it look like it took much effort on my part? :cool: :D
 

Patrick Johnson

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...I'm guessing you keep your follow-thru shorter on this shot to avoid overpowering the CB?
I could deliver a 12'' - 14" follow-thru on this shot, and NOT over power the CB!
OK, then what does the shorter follow-thru do for you?

It's all in the correct, timing, tempo, speed and delivery!
I know what "speed" means, and I think I know what "timing" means (hitting the CB at the most effective point in your stroke). But even though I've seen them used in this context before, I don't know what "tempo" and "delivery" mean. Can you help define them?

pj
chgo
 

mr3cushion

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OK, then what does the shorter follow-thru do for you?

The short stroke (which the SPC) says they don'r believe in) is used here be cause the CB has almost no deflection, pure English at this short distance, (approx 2') which is essential to the shot! Also it ensures a less afflicted stroke, No errors)!

I know what "speed" means, and I think I know what "timing" means (hitting the CB at the most effective point in your stroke). But even though I've seen them used in this context before, I don't know what "tempo" and "delivery" mean. Can you help define them?

The, 'tempo' is the cadence in which the player produces the, 'warm-up strokes.' The 'delivery' is, the perfect execution of the cue stick/shaft going 'straight-thru, horizontally and vertically, without wavering!'
This is what I meant by watching frame by frame, my cue/shaft is in perfect focus throughout the shot! The shaft doesn't move, up-down, left or right!

I've had 100's of photos taken of me during the execution of several different types of shots! The balls are a blur, but never the cue!

Here's just a couple.

View attachment 23431

View attachment 23432

pj
chgo
The stroke MUST ALWAYS be, 'crescendo' in nature! Means, increasing in speed, that's really where the tempo shines.
 
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Dennis "Whitey" Young

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I took this shot to the table, and to make it you have to stroke it firm to get the action to reverse the coarse of the cb. You have to aim to overcut the ob quite a bit, for you are stroking down on the cb with what I would call a 1/4 masse' stroked at 11'0clock @ about 30 degree cue angle, or maybe 35 degree cue angle masse'. This makes the cb curve into the ob.
It took me awhile to zero in on it but was able to make the shot at will once I did.
This is a very important shot to know, and I have done it before, and it has saved my ass a few times when I have run past the ob, and still need shape on the next ball.

A great shot to thread, thanks mr3cushion! Whitey

I hope this is helpful for those that wonder how the heck do you get the cb to do that! Good luck!
 

mr3cushion

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I took this shot to the table, and to make it you have to stroke it firm to get the action to reverse the coarse of the cb. You have to aim to overcut the ob quite a bit, for you are stroking down on the cb with what I would call a 1/4 masse' stroked at 11'0clock @ about 30 degree cue angle, or maybe 35 degree cue angle masse'. This makes the cb curve into the ob.
It took me awhile to zero in on it but was able to make the shot at will once I did.
This is a very important shot to know, and I have done it before, and it has saved my ass a few times when I have run past the ob, and still need shape on the next ball.

A great shot to thread, thanks mr3cushion! Whitey

I hope this is helpful for those that wonder how the heck do you get the cb to do that! Good luck!
Whitey; I'm going to be a little presumptuous here, and assume you have a, 'smart phone' with camera abilities. If so, I and maybe others would like to see your technique and examine it on video. Would be much appreciated by me anyway.

In your 1st paragraph, you mention, (I underlined in red) the shot must be struck firm! Does appear or from the sound from my video that "I" struck the CB, 'firm?' I did not! Does it look like "I", 'semi-masse' the CB? I did not! The cue is slightly, 'elevated' because of the CB being frozen to it!

There is certainly a, "Secret" :D to making the shot in the fashion "I" did! It has to do with an element I left out of my explanation to Patty! You know, stroke, timing, tempo, speed and delivery. It's in there, can someone decipher it? HINT, Think proper correct grip on the cue!
I'll post an excerpt from, 'a guys' book later.

I know I'm being a little bit of a stinker! But, I want players to think and examine what "I" post about this subject to LEARN, that's all!
 

mr3cushion

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Here's the photo from Patty, I drew thew lines of attack into the CB and the carom into the 1st rail, then the huge swing to the corner pocket!

View attachment 23434
 
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Patrick Johnson

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Does it look like "I", 'semi-masse' the CB? I did not! The cue is slightly, 'elevated' because of the CB being frozen to it!
Yes, and that's how I shot it too. But even the minimum elevation needed here causes some swerve, especially at the controlled speed needed. One of the difficulties for me is overcoming the urge to hit it harder, within my speed comfort zone for shots like this.

pj
chgo
 

mr3cushion

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:D:D
Yes, and that's how I shot it too. But even the minimum elevation needed here causes some swerve, especially at the controlled speed needed. One of the difficulties for me is overcoming the urge to hit it harder, within my speed comfort zone for shots like this.

pj
chgo
So Patty, is it your contention, that if I move the CB off the cushion 4" or 5" that I have to elevate the cue in order to make the shot as shown here? BTW, going into the OB at the SAME angle! I smell a bet on my side coming! :D If I'm forced to, I might bet I can run into the, 'frozen ball after 1 rail!' :D:D
 

chicagomike

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Here's the photo from Patty, I drew thew lines of attack into the CB and the carom into the 1st rail, then the huge swing to the corner pocket!

View attachment 23434
The cue ball in the actual shot looks to be sitting higher on the rail than you have it diagramed. If it were actually placed where you have it diagramed I don’t think there is any way you could contact the frozen ball first with a level cue while 5-6 inches off the rail. Keep in mind you would have to keep the same angle to the OB though. 5-6 inches off the rail means more straight in of a shot....wouldn’t it?
 

Patrick Johnson

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So Patty,
What's with the "Patty" stuff? Did I make a mistake calling you Billy? I thought that's what people call you. Sorry if not.

I'll enjoy (and learn from) any demonstration you want to show us, but I'll pass on the drama, thanks.

pj
chgo
 

mr3cushion

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What's with the "Patty" stuff? Did I make a mistake calling you Billy? I thought that's what people call you. Sorry if not.

I'll enjoy (and learn from) any demonstration you want to show us, but I'll pass on the drama, thanks.

pj
chgo
You did! It's is and was reserved for my family and close friends! I've never even been formally introduced to you! Now you know!

I enjoy instructing! I've been doing it since 1986-87.
 
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