Sylver Ochoa vs Rafael Martinez

philwelch

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
WHAT IS MENTAL TOUGHNESS????

Lets her what it is.

Thier will be differenent interpatations off mentale toughness.

Howe does mental toughness help you win. Or is it just a state off mind.

How do you no when a player has mentale toughness?

Does mentale toughness only show up when you win?

What if a player has mentale toughness when he looses.

What is mentale Toughness.Is mentale toughness Confedence or youre will and desire too win.

Is thier such a thing as mentale toughness and what is it that exacly does.

Inquering minds.
Artie, I think mental toughness is the ability to stay focused and not get discouraged when things aren't going in your favor.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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wincardona said:
ask The Ghost what mental toughness means to him, because he thought that the difference between Martinez and Sylver was Martinez has more mental toughness and that's why he should win. Billy I.

Hey Billy....maybe you need to increase your meds or something to mellow you out - you can't stop harping about this - even sending me a pm, just to repeat the same thing that you had already posted...:rolleyes:...I was just letting this nonsense go, and not responding, except that now...

...you're totally misquoting me as well...I never made a definitive statement that Rafael "should win" as you claim in your post which I bolded above....what I actually said was that Rafael's many, many years of seasoning might come into play in the match - here's my original post containing what I actually said >>>

One Pocket Ghost said:
I think this is a pretty even match-up....with Sylver playing the more controlled game, and Rafael the more aggressive game...

I like Sylver's all-around solid game and started to lean towards him here, but then I thought of how Rafael is more 'seasoned' than Sylver, and has a very strong mental game, and I wonder if that might show up at some point in their match...all that said, it could go either way.
- Ghost
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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wincardona said:
You'll have to ask The Ghost what mental toughness means to him, because he thought that the difference between Martinez and Sylver was Martinez has more mental toughness and that's why he should win. After the match was over I guess he was right mental toughness must of been the difference maker.

What do you think?

Billy I.

I think the players need to answer the qouistion since the won and lost.

Or maybee the one player just played real bad and the other player just played real good.

Witch can happen in reverse next time they play.

THe people who watchet the games should no what happened.

I think all great players have mental toughness. Thier all proes and no howe too play.

Its hard to measure mentaly toughness. Just like its hard too measure who wants too win more.

Or howe do you measure who puts in more effort and wanys too win more.

Mental toughmess could be the will to win. And feel mentaly strtonger over the other person.

I would say thier is such a thing. But is hard too measure or say what it realy is.

I will ask the person who made that statement. And we will see his answer what he means by it.

He might see something different then we can see.And see what his state meant means. But we can learn by his answer what he means.

Mentale toughness means? I naver herd off that saying. But it could be something worth learning.
 

wincardona

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Hey Billy....maybe you need to increase your meds or something to mellow you out - you can't stop harping about this - even sending me a pm, just to repeat the same thing that you had already posted...:rolleyes:...I was just letting this nonsense go, and not responding, except that now...

...you're totally misquoting me as well...I never made a definitive statement that Rafael "should win" as you claim in your post which I bolded above....what I actually said was that Rafael's many, many years of seasoning might come into play in the match - here's my original post containing what I actually said >>>



- Ghost
I don't need to increase my meds, i'm actually doing fine and have a good understanding of what I read. You said that Martinez's mental toughness could be the difference in their match. And then after the match was over you said that like you thought it could of been the difference.
I said that I believe the difference in their match was that Martinez must have played exceptionally well and that was the difference opposed to your mental toughness philosophy. I also said that mental toughness is not a factor in a short race, it would take a longer race for it to be a factor. Thats when you climbed all over me saying what you did in post#48.

I then proceeded to explain that champions don't lose focus (mental toughness) in a race to 9 if they did they wouldn't be champions.

I also said that to imply that a champion doesn't have enough mental toughness in a short race is an insult to the champion. And it is. And when you said that that could be the difference that is exactly what you were implying.

Your the one who extended the debate with your post#48 which offended me. So if now your offended you brought it on yourself. Maybe if you had more mental toughness you would of let it go.

Billy I.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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wincardona said:

Bottom line is....I should have taken Freddy's advice when he's advised me more than once in the past to never bother to try and debate anything with you or Artie...stubbornness will make reality go out the window...:rolleyes:

- Ghost

PS, And that's the last thing I have to say here - you can have the last word/post - I know how important that is to you.
 
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wincardona

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Bottom line is....I should have taken Freddy's advice when he's advised me more than once in the past to never bother to try and debate anything with you or Artie...stubbornness will make reality will go out the window...:rolleyes:

- Ghost

PS, And that's the last thing I have to say here - you can have the last word/post - I know that's very important to you.
Why feel that way, unless you don't want to expand on your knowledge. But if you feel that you can't learn anything then do what you have to do. I hang in there in spite of what you, Artie or even Freddy has to say that differs from my opinion. But if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

By the way you shouldn't use sarcasm, if you don't have mental toughness.

Billy I.
 

gulfportdoc

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I couldn't say whether "mental toughness" had anything to do with the outcome of this particular match. But Martinez is a more seasoned player, has more of the killer instinct; and he does not seem as though he beats himself up when he misses, or when the other guy does something good.

I like Phil's definition of mental toughness. i think Martinez has more of it than does Ochoa.;)

Doc
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Bottom line is....I should have taken Freddy's advice when he's advised me more than once in the past to never bother to try and debate anything with you or Artie...stubbornness will make reality go out the window...:rolleyes:

- Ghost

PS, And that's the last thing I have to say here - you can have the last word/post - I know how important that is to you.
If you want too call knoweing morev than the other person Stubborn its a weak answer.

Debaite youre shots if you think your shot is correct. I give you this dont give in too nobody if you belive you are wrtight

Hold your ground and prove yhier shot wrong. Your answer is what will decide the shot. Dont give up it doesnt cost youi anything.

And stick with what you say. Defend what you say. And make sense out off it. Explain it and give your answer.

You see how good Billy Got. He is a champion now in my book.

Not before he is a lot smarter and his answers are a lot clearer and more detail and explanitory.

BILLY IS makeing great posts I mean thier realy good.

And he is also persenstant I dont no howe long he will last.

But he is in dead stroke.

And if you dont stand up for your shot he will chew you up and spit you out.

I see it very clearly if you take the chalange then go all the way. Billy is a proffesinoal not a little kid.

When you go up against a pro you better have the goods.

He is clever and very shrewed. And Once you trap yourself he wont let you wiggle out.

So when you chalange him. I recomened you have the goods or give it a pass.

And your credibility with Mentale Toughness is what you should be using on Billy.

Im not picking on you or gaging up on you. I am just trying too help you too have your answers ready for him. Because he will her what you are saying.

And that mental toughness use it on Billy. Maybe you got something. But you have too step up and showe it.

Dont ever give up. Nobody ever winnes by giving up. And I no thats not mentale toughness. And you no what you are doing. Stick with your answers and your decision.

And If you see someones answer is better then let go off it slowly. Because it is hard too win if you dont have the wright answers.

Its imposable too win. And maybe all these years you have been fighting yourself. INstead off changing too a better shot.

Even in these kinds off descousions you have too be honest with youreself. If somenones shot is better then give them thier dues.

Dont fight it unless you can shwoe them thier wrong on thier shot and your shot is better.

Its all about show and tell. It doesnt cost you anything. Win or loose. And dont let your pride get the best off you.

People are stoborn Im realy not. If you show me why youre shot is a better shot and explain it then If I agree with what you are saying.

I will pick youre shot over meine. But you have too show me the answer.

And belive me Im not stubeurn at all. Im the opposite. If Freddy tells me we will play pinocole and he will tell me the last 6 cards in the deck do you think I would qouistion him.

Or if Freddy tells me he can spell better or remember events better then me. Thier would be nothing for me too talk about.

I no what I no and what I am weak at. And If I dont no a answer too a qouistion. I am very good with that.

I go too the person that has the correct answer. That is what everyone should do dont just ask a friend or someone who you think knowes.

Get the answer from a real perfessionale. THats were you go for answers. And the internet is a pretty good source off information.

On anything you want the answer too. You have said I am stuburn and then you use Freddy as reference. Too me thaty showes weakness when you go too someone else.

If you no you dont have too go too nobody else. I yous myself. I am my source off information. I dont need too verifie it with someone else.

I have the correct answer what else do you need for proff. You have been in Chicago for a long time. You no I was number one. And Freddy said it too everyone.

And he said I was the smardest and everyone I beat shot and banket better then me .

Howe in the world do you think I won. I got so good that the only action I got in one pocket was Bugs. Nobody else would even think about playing.

No matter what I would spot them. You think its easy playing Grady the roffer 8 to 5 and the breack.

Or Gorge Brunt 8 to 7 and the breack. And Blue shirt 2 hit and the pick. And I couldnt even get a eight ball game.

I could get nineball games. And even get good wight. But those people wouldnt play eight ball or onepocket why. Because the new they would get out smarted.

Belive me if you ever play the whole game wothout one mistake you will be learning howe too play one pocket.

Dont feel insulted because someone knowes more then you do. If you dont want too excepte that fine.

You have that wright. But belive me if you would take that bet for 30thousand dollaers you might quite pool forever.

And I no in your mind you can win that bet. You have a better chance swimming lake Michigan.

Thier are lots off things I dont no And lots off things I am horrable at.

But the things I no I have set the president in. Weather its onepocket or eight ball. Or beating all the Caisinos betting sports.

They dont make a law just for one person because he is a idiote. And they will never yous that law again.

And I will give someone a bet on that too if they want too bet. That the law will never be used again.

I have made a lot off correct decisions in my life. If not I would not be her too say this.

And for someone too dought what I say is hard for me too Imagine.

I could tell you stories you would go and hide. If you would have had too go through them.

But take my word my shots are the correct shots. And if we both gave a lession too a champion After two houers.

You can get two too one they pick me over you what they will learn. Becuse I can say it freely because I have the answers.

If you played me holdum Poker. And I new both off youre whole cards do you
think you still would no more.

You just really never learned the real game off one pocket. And your are up in the 90% too 95% bracket.

But one off these days I will just show you a few things that will help youre game and you will have a different way off thinking.

But tell you see it in black and white. You will not be a beliver. because I say so.

And use that mentale toughness on Billy. But hes in a real good frame off mind thinking wise.

And I dont go by who Billy is.

But what he wrights and how he describs what de is looking too do.

Very clear and very too the point. Read hisposts thier very perfesional. And this is the most credit I have given Billy.

And I am giving it because off the time and thought and hard work and yime he put in too do this.

This wasant easy for Billy too do. He is a very hipper person. And his pastence runs short.

But hes got it together wright now. If you are going to chalange him now make sure you got everything figured out.

Or the same thing will happen. And dont ever give up no matter even if you loose.

Remember youre a winner. not because you didnt win. But because you tried.
 

wincardona

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gulfportdoc said:
I couldn't say whether "mental toughness" had anything to do with the outcome of this particular match. But Martinez is a more seasoned player, has more of the killer instinct; and he does not seem as though he beats himself up when he misses, or when the other guy does something good.

I like Phil's definition of mental toughness. i think Martinez has more of it than does Ochoa.;)

Doc
I agree with everything you said, Martinez does have more of a killer instinct, he's more seasoned, and he deals with adversity better than Sylver. Sylver has characteristics that are over Martinez as well, but no need to go there.

My point is that when two champions play a match particularly a short race the difference in their ability or inability to stay focused, considering who they are and how they arrived will not be the difference in the match. I have seen and have played too many championship caliber of matches to make that statement. Champions like these two players , providing their prepared to play, will play well. Particularly in a short race. The spirit of a champion will never be taken in such a short race. To take the spirit from a champion you have to convince him that he's a loser and I don't know any champion that would be convinced of that in a short race to seven. Now I have seen a champions spirit taken from him many times when the test of skills were in a match that carried distance. Like Artie has always said " Nobody can beat me playing 6 ahead" He feels that he will be able to grind his opponent to a point that he will eventually lose his spirit. I can see that happening because of the kind of game he plays. Playing Artie was torture and mistakes were magnified, because opportunities were few. That's how he broke champions spirits.

Other players break champions spirits by refusing to miss and by bearing down regardless of the score, sending a clear message that their opponent doesn't want to deal with. The way Buddy Hall would do when he was playing his best. He broke them down by running out and never giving up. But in either case it took time, and it doesn't ever happen in a race to 7. If it does than the loser is not a champion.

And yes I like Phills description of mental toughness, and not because it's similar to mine, but because it's what it is.

Billy I.
 

wincardona

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The Ghost is a very knowledgeable player that deserves respect, not only for his knowledge but for his willingness to share what he knows with everyone on this site. But imo he's very much like our friend Freddie, they both have thin skin and would rather not stay involved when ego's are challenged. On the contrary that's where your mental toughness will show, and it not only will serve you better here on the site, but equally as much on the table. Just like our pal Grady Mathews has always said " if you make a bad game rack em up and play another one" With that kind of attitude comes success.


Billy I.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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wincardona said:
I agree with everything you said, Martinez does have more of a killer instinct, he's more seasoned, and he deals with adversity better than Sylver. Sylver has characteristics that are over Martinez as well, but no need to go there.

My point is that when two champions play a match particularly a short race the difference in their ability or inability to stay focused, considering who they are and how they arrived will not be the difference in the match. I have seen and have played too many championship caliber of matches to make that statement. Champions like these two players , providing their prepared to play, will play well. Particularly in a short race. The spirit of a champion will never be taken in such a short race. To take the spirit from a champion you have to convince him that he's a loser and I don't know any champion that would be convinced of that in a short race to seven. Now I have seen a champions spirit taken from him many times when the test of skills were in a match that carried distance. Like Artie has always said " Nobody can beat me playing 6 ahead" He feels that he will be able to grind his opponent to a point that he will eventually lose his spirit. I can see that happening because of the kind of game he plays. Playing Artie was torture and mistakes were magnified, because opportunities were few. That's how he broke champions spirits.

Other players break champions spirits by refusing to miss and by bearing down regardless of the score, sending a clear message that their opponent doesn't want to deal with. The way Buddy Hall would do when he was playing his best. He broke them down by running out and never giving up. But in either case it took time, and it doesn't ever happen in a race to 7. If it does than the loser is not a champion.

And yes I like Phills description of mental toughness, and not because it's similar to mine, but because it's what it is.

Billy I.

Billy bring a lot off that mentale toughness. I like that in you. And Ill bring lots off caracter. too finish them off.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Billy bring a lot off that mentale toughness. I like that in you. And Ill bring lots off caracter. too finish them off.
Ah, the things left unsaid oft times speak the loudest:eek: :p .

RBL
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Well, after thinking about it, and after talking to Freddy this afternoon, I changed my mind about not posting any more in this thread - all of the rebuttals available to me are just too good to pass up...:)...

wincardona said:
The Ghost is a very knowledgeable player that deserves respect, not only for his knowledge but for his willingness to share what he knows with everyone on this site. But imo he's very much like our friend Freddie, they both would rather not stay involved when ego's are challenged. On the contrary that's where your mental toughness will show, and it not only will serve you better here on the site, but equally as much on the table.

No, lol, not caring to bicker back and forth on threads here has nothing to do with my ego being challenged or whether I have mental toughness..:rolleyes:...it just represents my having much better things to do with my time....:cool:


Billy I.


wincardona said:
I hang in there in spite of what you, Artie or even Freddy has to say that differs from my opinion. But if you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen.

It's not the heat in the kitchen that bothers me at all...it's just that some kitchens have a bad smell in them, like something is spoiled - those are the kitchens that I choose to get out of...

By the way you shouldn't use sarcasm, if you don't have mental toughness.

Well let's see now...Ike is definitely a better player than me, and he had me down 1-0 at the past DCC - then I won the next three games in a row to win the match - guess I must have been mentally weak, to have done that....:rolleyes:

Billy I.
- Ghost
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Well, after thinking about it, and after talking to Freddy this afternoon, I changed my mind about not posting any more in this thread - all of the rebuttals available to me are just too good to pass up...:)...

- Ghost
Ghosty,

You don't need to talk to anyone to know that you know how to play this game. You've shown it in your posts & threads for the couple of years that I've been here and I know that you know how to play.

Dennis
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Ghosty,

You don't need to talk to anyone to know that you know how to play this game. You've shown it in your posts & threads for the couple of years that I've been here and I know that you know how to play.
Dennis

Thanks Dennis....but my talk today to 'anyone' had nothing whatsoever to do with how well I play, or know the game.

- Ghosty
 

wincardona

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Well, after thinking about it, and after talking to Freddy this afternoon, I changed my mind about not posting any more in this thread - all of the rebuttals available to me are just too good to pass up...:)...







- Ghost
Now that you talked to Freddie, and you guys figured everything out we can finally get back to what we do best. Disagree with one another. As long as that's ok with Freddie, why don't you check it out and give us a report. Unless you have something better to do.:D

Oh by the way, I guess you told me. And I have never questioned your mental strength, ask Freddie.

Billy I.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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wincardona said:
Now that you talked to Freddie, and you guys figured everything out we can finally get back to what we do best. Disagree with one another. As long as that's ok with Freddie, why don't you check it out and give us a report. Unless you have something better to do.:D

Oh by the way, I guess you told me. And I have never questioned your mental strength, ask Freddie.

Billy I.

Since you're using smileys again in your posts to me...I have to conclude that you must have taken my advice - and increased your meds...:eek:...:D
..:p

- Dr. Ghost
 

wincardona

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Since you're using smileys again in your posts to me...I have to conclude that you must have taken my advice - and increased your meds...:eek:...:D
..:p

- Dr. Ghost
Actually your right, I doubled up on my pain pills after reading your last post.:eek:
Now all of a sudden everything is tolerable.:cool:

Billy I.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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wincardona said:
Actually your right, I doubled up on my pain pills after reading your last post.:eek:
Now all of a sudden everything is tolerable.:cool:

Billy I.

What a great combination. Double your pleasure with doubling up on pain pills and Mental toughness.

Mental toughness and pain pills doesnt hurt at tall.

I am a realist. I think you both should take a one houer course with giving each other one pocket lessions for a houer each way.

And whoever lasts through the session will be ready for step two on mentall toughness.

And will be metaly tough if the play a poor game.

Can you but mental toughness and pain pills all in one. What would be a good name for combining both. Mental Pills will toughen up your game.

The Goast or Billy will come up with one. You have a real winner her Goast.

This might be the best one off the year. Mentale toughness. I give you first price. Its great.
 
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