Smartest Onepocket Player In Life

wincardona

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Let me tell you a short-story Bill: Big Bill Patee was staking Ronnie Howe against Scott McKensie(sp) out at Cue Corners in Romulus, Michigan (late 70's early 80's). Bill had conned Scott into giving Ronnie the wild 8 playing 9-Ball on an 8 foot table. I don't know if you've heard of Ronnie but he was a very good bartable player. He also played a mean game of 14.1 on a 9' table so he was not unfamiliar with a larger table. Scott played me with the wild 7 (him spotting me), in other words he couldn't have beaten Ronnie playing even but he was giving him the 8.

I don't remember the bet but they were playing sets and after Scott was down a couple of sets he tried to adjust the game to a 9' table. Ronnie would've still robbed him on a 9' table but Big Bill told him he didn't like that game, he didn't think they could win at it. Scott knew by this time that he was being robbed (didn't take long) and this was the very first time in my life that I ever heard this phrase spoken: Scott told Big Bill "Bill, why don't you go outside, get a gun and shoot yourself in the head".

Dennis
Sounds like a line that Cornbread might say, or maybe you would like to say to me.:D Possibly.:lol

Billy I.
 
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wincardona

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After reading some of this thread, I had a question: Would Efren be the hands down favorite over all the top players playing one ball one pocket? I can't see him having much of an edge, if any, over guys like Shannon or Frost. They bank and move just as good, if not slightly better than Efren.

I bring this up over the debate about Efren's end game. I know there's a lot more to the end game than just one ball on the table, but was wondering what you or anyone else thought about that.
Good question, one that can never be answered without another hotly contested debate.

I don't think that any top player against any other top player would be a hands down favorite playing one ball one pocket. At best it would be a slow grind for one of them, not saying which one.

Billy I.
 

lll

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i still think that some of you equate being the best player/talent as the smartest
jmho
icbw
 

One Pocket Ghost

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After reading some of this thread, I had a question: Would Efren be the hands down favorite over all the top players playing one ball one pocket? I can't see him having much of an edge, if any, over guys like Shannon or Frost. They bank and move just as good, if not slightly better than Efren.

I bring this up over the debate about Efren's end game. I know there's a lot more to the end game than just one ball on the table, but was wondering what you or anyone else thought about that.


Real good question/debate material Tim...here's my view, and a question...and as a banker, I'm curious what Freddy will think re. my view and my question...

First of all, I think the top bankers have a big edge in one ball One Pocket, against other top One Pocket players, if they shoot and move top speed...and like you said, there's not that much moving to know in one ball One Pocket - as a matter of fact it's almost the same game, shots, and defenses as used in playing 'last pocket 8 ball', and a lot of us already learned all of those same shots, and defenses from playing that game...

As for my question...

What's everybody's opinion of whether an ultimate top notch banker, who shoots a little less straight then Efren, and doesn't move as good (but having said, there's not that much moving to know in one ball one pocket) be the underdog, favorite, or even, playing Efren that game?....

...and the person that I'm talking about in particular, is our own John Brumback....my opinion is, that I don't think Efren would have an edge in that game, and considering that probably 90% of one ball One Pocket games are won by a bank shot, I think John may very well be the favorite in the game...:eek:...whadda you guys think?...and John, what do you think yourself? - for real, no stalling...;)

- Ghost
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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I don't think this thread is worth taking a gun to your head, but if you must...........Instead of answering my questions, you went right back to this game YOU SAY shows Efrens just another player you would rob IN THE END GAME. Constantly repeating the same statement over and over is grinding, NEVER RESPONDING to other aspects of the discussion . The thing about it is, YOU ARE WRONG. The discussion is about the most intelligent one pocket player and you are picking out one game, one example from each to say Efren is not an intelligent player. That is just YOUR opinion and yours only. You have ignored any other statements made, constantly going back to your one grind. Picking out one shot in one game and repeating the same tired statement is grinding and being a NIT. You can go on about anything you want and OFTEN do. To the point of excess.
Where are the tapes of you playing? Let's see them so we can criticize your choices and shots. I would like to see you step up and play Efren and lets pick apart your game. Your moral superiority is boring and constantly criticizing the play of others shows a lack of self confidence. I don't care if you put up a thousand of your post, they will all say the same thing. For some reason you think your statements on a message board will make Efren less of the greatest player that he is. Efren is recognized as the greatest player of our era by nearly everyone in the pool world except out of touch Cowboys.
Those that can't do, become critics.
No self-control eh Bill? I thought you were done talking about it.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Sounds like a line that Cornbread might say, or maybe you would like to say to me.:D Possibly.:lol

Billy I.
Actually Bill, I thought I included a smiley face but it didn't come out:(. The alcohol may have affected my typing:).

Dennis
 

tonygreen

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Real good question/debate material Tim...here's my view, and a question...and as a banker, I'm curious what Freddy will think re. my view and my question...

First of all, I think the top bankers have a big edge in one ball One Pocket, against other top One Pocket players, if they shoot and move top speed...and like you said, there's not that much moving to know in one ball One Pocket - as a matter of fact it's almost the same game, shots, and defenses as used in playing 'last pocket 8 ball', and a lot of us already learned all of those same shots, and defenses from playing that game...

As for my question...

What's everybody's opinion of whether an ultimate top notch banker, who shoots a little less straight then Efren, and doesn't move as good (but having said, there's not that much moving to know in one ball one pocket) be the underdog, favorite, or even, playing Efren that game?....

...and the person that I'm talking about in particular, is our own John Brumbach....my opinion is, that I don't think Efren would have an edge in that game, and considering that probably 90% of one ball One Pocket games are won by a bank shot, I think John may very well be the favorite in the game...:eek:...whadda you guys think?...and John, what do you think yourself? - for real, no stalling...;)

- Ghost
This is great TIMDOG ... but please leave Frost out of this ...$.02 cents opinion
 

John Brumback

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After reading some of this thread, I had a question: Would Efren be the hands down favorite over all the top players playing one ball one pocket? I can't see him having much of an edge, if any, over guys like Shannon or Frost. They bank and move just as good, if not slightly better than Efren.

I bring this up over the debate about Efren's end game. I know there's a lot more to the end game than just one ball on the table, but was wondering what you or anyone else thought about that.
I think Efren would get quite a few takers In one ball onepocket, myself Included.
All this talk about who's the smartest..I think sometimes It pays to be dumb.
I know for sure you can out smart yourself real easy.Nowadays,you better be ready to shoot at something because the good players will.I like the way Efren thinks even though I'm not sure that he does which can be a good thing.John B.
 

Scrzbill

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I think Efren would get quite a few takers In one ball onepocket, myself Included.
All this talk about who's the smartest..I think sometimes It pays to be dumb.
I know for sure you can out smart yourself real easy.Nowadays,you better be ready to shoot at something because the good players will.I like the way Efren thinks even though I'm not sure that he does which can be a good thing.John B.
I'm sorry John, I like your bank game and I went to the losers side after playing you one pocket in 2003, come to think of it, you sent me to the banks one loss side, but I still like Efren in one pocket over you. Even though his game has gone done, I've heard he's gotten back some since his eye surgery. Doesn't mean you aren't a great banker, the best in fact.
 

John Brumback

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I'm sorry John, I like your bank game and I went to the losers side after playing you one pocket in 2003, come to think of it, you sent me to the banks one loss side, but I still like Efren in one pocket over you. Even though his game has gone done, I've heard he's gotten back some since his eye surgery. Doesn't mean you aren't a great banker, the best in fact.
We're talking one ball onepocket here.Thanks,John B.
 

lll

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ive never played one ball 1p:eek:
with that being said i would think most times you are not left with a cut shot to your hole:rolleyes:
so you have to bank
so i guess the better banker would win???
the banker once he learned where to leave the balls for safeties
when there was no bank should be at an advantage??
yes?? no??
now if the banker fires at them like in bank pool and misses and leaves an easy bank they probably will lose
but i think the banker would know that and play accordingly;)
 

fred bentivegna

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No score management

No score management

Real good question/debate material Tim...here's my view, and a question...and as a banker, I'm curious what Freddy will think re. my view and my question...

First of all, I think the top bankers have a big edge in one ball One Pocket, against other top One Pocket players, if they shoot and move top speed...and like you said, there's not that much moving to know in one ball One Pocket - as a matter of fact it's almost the same game, shots, and defenses as used in playing 'last pocket 8 ball', and a lot of us already learned all of those same shots, and defenses from playing that game...

As for my question...

What's everybody's opinion of whether an ultimate top notch banker, who shoots a little less straight then Efren, and doesn't move as good (but having said, there's not that much moving to know in one ball one pocket) be the underdog, favorite, or even, playing Efren that game?....

...and the person that I'm talking about in particular, is our own John Brumbach....my opinion is, that I don't think Efren would have an edge in that game, and considering that probably 90% of one ball One Pocket games are won by a bank shot, I think John may very well be the favorite in the game...:eek:...whadda you guys think?...and John, what do you think yourself? - for real, no stalling...;)

- Ghost
One ball one pocket is a much different animal. It cant even be classified as the end game, it is only a small segment of the end game. With only one ball on the table there is no such thing as score management. In that game Efren would probably play with one ball just as cleverly as any other player. He would be at no strategic disadvantage. The advantage would go a player that is skilled at banking balls from off angles, from a long distance off, and with pocket speed. Bugs was the best that I have ever seen with one ball out there.

I think many of the top players would have a terrific chance to beat Efren at one ball one pocket. Especially top bankers with a penchant for one pocket. He certainly couldnt be made a big favorite over many of them, especially if we disallow the Efren faint syndrome. I would make Cliff Joyner a substantial fav over Effie at the game. His pocket speed is excellent.
Brumback would have good chances also.

Beard
 

Scrzbill

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One ball one pocket is a much different animal. It cant even be classified as the end game, it is only a small segment of the end game. With only one ball on the table there is no such thing as score management. In that game Efren would probably play with one ball just as cleverly as any other player. He would be at no strategic disadvantage. The advantage would go a player that is skilled at banking balls from off angles, from a long distance off, and with pocket speed. Bugs was the best that I have ever seen with one ball out there.

I think many of the top players would have a terrific chance to beat Efren at one ball one pocket. Especially top bankers with a penchant for one pocket. He certainly couldnt be made a big favorite over many of them, especially if we disallow the Efren faint syndrome. I would make Cliff Joyner a substantial fav over Effie at the game. His pocket speed is excellent.
Brumback would have good chances also.

Beard
Sounds like fun. How do you play it? Who breaks or are you talking about playing the last ball after the others have been pocketed. I think having one ball left can be the most crucial time of the game.
 

lll

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scrzbill
i have a question
do you still think efren is the smartest or the most talented or both??
just askin
 

NH Steve

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One ball one pocket is a much different animal. It cant even be classified as the end game, it is only a small segment of the end game. With only one ball on the table there is no such thing as score management. In that game Efren would probably play with one ball just as cleverly as any other player. He would be at no strategic disadvantage. The advantage would go a player that is skilled at banking balls from off angles, from a long distance off, and with pocket speed. Bugs was the best that I have ever seen with one ball out there.

I think many of the top players would have a terrific chance to beat Efren at one ball one pocket. Especially top bankers with a penchant for one pocket. He certainly couldnt be made a big favorite over many of them, especially if we disallow the Efren faint syndrome. I would make Cliff Joyner a substantial fav over Effie at the game. His pocket speed is excellent.
Brumback would have good chances also.

Beard
Doesn't the combination of "pocket speed" and "John Brumback" create a bit of an oxymoron? :D:D

(not to be confused with the kind of names certain posters call other posters)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oxymoron

I like One Ball One Pocket myself -- what about a little mini-tournament at DCC? Think there would be an interest?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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One ball one pocket is a much different animal. It cant even be classified as the end game, it is only a small segment of the end game. With only one ball on the table there is no such thing as score management. In that game Efren would probably play with one ball just as cleverly as any other player. He would be at no strategic disadvantage. The advantage would go a player that is skilled at banking balls from off angles, from a long distance off, and with pocket speed. Bugs was the best that I have ever seen with one ball out there.

I think many of the top players would have a terrific chance to beat Efren at one ball one pocket. Especially top bankers with a penchant for one pocket. He certainly couldnt be made a big favorite over many of them, especially if we disallow the Efren faint syndrome. I would make Cliff Joyner a substantial fav over Effie at the game. His pocket speed is excellent.
Brumback would have good chances also.

Beard
Freddy,

I don't think I remember playing this at all but I've seen it a couple of times. Refresh my memory of what happens when a player fouls. Does he spot one up or does he now have to pocket the ball on the table, spot it up and make it again? In other words, is there ever more than just one ball on the table?

The times I remember seeing it played it was on a 5'x10' snooker table and the guys broke from the "D".

Dennis
 

androd

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Freddy,

I don't think I remember playing this at all but I've seen it a couple of times. Refresh my memory of what happens when a player fouls. Does he spot one up or does he now have to pocket the ball on the table, spot it up and make it again? In other words, is there ever more than just one ball on the table?

The times I remember seeing it played it was on a 5'x10' snooker table and the guys broke from the "D".

Dennis
Probably played many ways, but we always spotted one or however many.
Rod.
 

NH Steve

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Probably played many ways, but we always spotted one or however many.
Rod.
We've also played that if you scratch you spot a ball. I would like see that be the limit though -- that is, if you already are playing for two as a result of a scratch, then another scratch before you get back to needing just one would be loss of game. Just to keep the game from growing into a longer game -- since the whole idea of this game in my mind is something fast moving.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Probably played many ways, but we always spotted one or however many.
Rod.
Thinking about it, if a guy scratched and left the object ball behind the line it would probably be right to spot a ball for the foul. You'd get a spot-shot for the game but you shouldn't have to kick at the ball behind the line because he made an error.

Steve's idea is also very good (for a tournament), another foul before you pay for your first (or whatever gets you even) is a loss of game.

Dennis
 
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