Shooting Ball In Wrong Hole Rule

lll

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went to DCC web site
http://www.dcctickets.com/OnePocket/tabid/71/Default.aspx
found this in their 1p rules

Shooting into the Wrong Pocket: If a player shoots into the wrong pocket and continues to shoot because their opponent failed to notify them of the error, any additional balls pocketed in that inning do not count, whether pocketed for the shooter’s or the opponent. The first shot to the wrong pocket in a given inning is the shooter’s responsibility, and the opponent is entitled to any balls pocketed on that first stroke. However, any other pocketed balls in the wrong pocket in the same inning are to be spotted as illegally pocketed balls.

i always thought you kept all balls made, didnt have to tell your opponent and could tell the opponent at a time convenient to you:confused:
 

SactownTom

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Yeah... there was a rule in 8 ball that tried to cover a similar situation.

If you are stripes but start shooting solids, and your opponent didn't call foul, you then were SOLIDS. This kept your opponent from waiting until you were on the 8 ball to start calling a foul.

In 1Pkt this situation is somewhat similar, but I don't remember the spotting of balls when the sitting player makes the call.

If the shooter shoots 4 balls into his opponents pocket, only 3 spot up? is the foul for the continued shooting of balls into his opponents pocket?

Just saying. I need to read those rules again.. ya think?
 

wincardona

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lll said:
went to DCC web site
http://www.dcctickets.com/OnePocket/tabid/71/Default.aspx
found this in their 1p rules

Shooting into the Wrong Pocket: If a player shoots into the wrong pocket and continues to shoot because their opponent failed to notify them of the error, any additional balls pocketed in that inning do not count, whether pocketed for the shooter’s or the opponent. The first shot to the wrong pocket in a given inning is the shooter’s responsibility, and the opponent is entitled to any balls pocketed on that first stroke. However, any other pocketed balls in the wrong pocket in the same inning are to be spotted as illegally pocketed balls.

i always thought you kept all balls made, didnt have to tell your opponent and could tell the opponent at a time convenient to you:confused:
I think that this is a clumsy rule and should be changed. The non shooter has too much of an advantage with the rule the way it reads, and that is clearly unfair. I believe it's as much as a responsibility to the non shooter as it is to the shooter to stop the shooter after he's pocketed a ball in the wrong pocket.

This is how I think the rule should be made.

If a player pockets a ball in the wrong pocket and pockets another ball in the same pocket, if stopped there by the non shooter the ball that was first pocketed will count for the non shooter and the next ball pocketed will be spotted up and a foul will be charged to the shooter. If for some reason the shooter pockets more then 2 balls in the wrong pocket then it should be considered a no contest and the game should be played over.

Billy I.
 

wgcp

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Billy,
I know as a shooter when I do shoot in the wrong pocket all I want to do is shoot myself...

B
 

JAM

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I've got a couple funny stories shooting the ball in the wrong hole during gambling sessions. This tale I'm sharing is what can happen when three diehard action players can't find anybody else to shoot their dough at, and so they decide to play each other. :D

The Capital City Classic in Philadelphia was held at the Hilton one year, and the ballroom was absolutely first class with large crystal chandeliers hanging from the ceiling and scarlet red carpet throughout the venue. There was plenty of room between each Gold Crown table. First class all the way, a pool player's dream.

One evening, after the tournament matches, there weren't a lot of players around hanging out in the ballroom. Since it was slim pickings for action games, Keith decides to recruit Ryan "Genie Man" McCreesh as a partner and see if he could rope Jose Parica into a one-pocket game, two against one, with Keith and Ryan alternating shots. It was close to the midnight hour, and most of the tournament soldiers were resting, all snuggled in their beds at the Hilton, but not Keith, Ryan, and Jose Parica.

I was sitting on the rail, yawning, wondering how long it was going to take, so that we could retire for the night. It was a pretty uneventful match, truth be told, but then it happened. Keith fired a shot into the corner pocket with authority. It was one of those lot-of-green shots, and he split the wicket, as they say. Beautiful!

Jose Parica jumps up out of his chair like a Jack-in-the-Box and shreiks, "You shot the ball in my hole. You shot that ball in MY hole." Keith suddenly had the deer-in-headlights look, but Ryan McCreesh, Keith's partner, had steam coming out of his ears. :mad:

Ryan looks at Keith and says, "What's wrong with you, doing that for my cheese?" Keith shrugs his shoulders and goes back to his chair, not believing he could have made such a gross error. :eek:

Jose begins to giggle, seeing Ryan and Keith arguing. So he steps up to the plate. The table is wide open now. The balls are looking pretty sweet for a run-out. Jose proceeds to pocket a ball. Piece of cake.

Then Keith jumped out of his chair and yells, "Jose, you just pocketed the ball in my hole. You just pocked the ball in MY hole." Then Jose got the deer-in-headlights look and returned to his chair, shaking his head. :eek:

Well, that was the last game, thank goodness. I was tired. As soon as it ended, Ryan unscrewed his stick and said, "I've had enough of this kind of action. I'm going to bed." :D

Keith and Jose remain good friends today. In fact, Jose is the only pool player I have ever welcomed in my home for a visit. He's got no bad habits, and he's actually fun to hang with. Keith and Jose have played partners together, against each other. Jose has backed Keith, and Keith has backed Jose. I always get a kick out of how players can be team mates and opponents and remain friends all at the same time in this wonderful zany world of pool.
 

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cuesmith

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JAM said:
I've got a couple funny stories shooting the ball in the wrong hole during gambling sessions. This tale I'm sharing is what can happen when three diehard action players can't find anybody else to shoot their dough at, and so they decide to play each other. :D

The Capital City Classic in Philadelphia was held at the Hilton one year, and the ballroom was absolutely first class with large crystal chandeliers hanging from the ceiling and scarlet red carpet throughout the venue. There was plenty of room between each Gold Crown table. First class all the way, a pool player's dream.

One evening, after the tournament matches, there weren't a lot of players around hanging out in the ballroom. Since it was slim pickings for action games, Keith decides to recruit Ryan "Genie Man" McCreesh as a partner and see if he could rope Jose Parica into a one-pocket game, two against one, with Keith and Ryan alternating shots. It was close to the midnight hour, and most of the tournament soldiers were resting, all snuggled in their beds at the Hilton, but not Keith, Ryan, and Jose Parica.

I was sitting on the rail, yawning, wondering how long it was going to take, so that we could retire for the night. It was a pretty uneventful match, truth be told, but then it happened. Keith fired a shot into the corner pocket with authority. It was one of those lot-of-green shots, and he split the wicket, as they say. Beautiful!

Jose Parica jumps up out of his chair like a Jack-in-the-Box and shreiks, "You shot the ball in my hole. You shot that ball in MY hole." Keith suddenly had the deer-in-headlights look, but Ryan McCreesh, Keith's partner, had steam coming out of his ears. :mad:

Ryan looks at Keith and says, "What's wrong with you, doing that for my cheese?" Keith shrugs his shoulders and goes back to his chair, not believing he could have made such a gross error. :eek:

Jose begins to giggle, seeing Ryan and Keith arguing. So he steps up to the plate. The table is wide open now. The balls are looking pretty sweet for a run-out. Jose proceeds to pocket a ball. Piece of cake.

Then Keith jumped out of his chair and yells, "Jose, you just pocketed the ball in my hole. You just pocked the ball in MY hole." Then Jose got the deer-in-headlights look and returned to his chair, shaking his head. :eek:

Well, that was the last game, thank goodness. I was tired. As soon as it ended, Ryan unscrewed his stick and said, "I've had enough of this kind of action. I'm going to bed." :D

Keith and Jose remain good friends today. In fact, Jose is the only pool player I have ever welcomed in my home for a visit. He's got no bad habits, and he's actually fun to hang with. Keith and Jose have played partners together, against each other. Jose has backed Keith, and Keith has backed Jose. I always get a kick out of how players can be team mates and opponents and remain friends all at the same time in this wonderful zany world of pool.

Jennie, that was a good one. I have a buddy who's a little "absent minded" and he can't help it, he's from West Virginia. lol One year at the derby he played in the one pocket tournament and was on a good run. He ran 3 balls in his pocket then shot the next ball in his opponents pocket! lol I've seen a lot of people shoot at the wrong pocket, myself included, but he's the only guy I ever saw change pockets in mid-run!
 

NH Steve

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wincardona said:
I think that this is a clumsy rule and should be changed. The non shooter has too much of an advantage with the rule the way it reads, and that is clearly unfair. I believe it's as much as a responsibility to the non shooter as it is to the shooter to stop the shooter after he's pocketed a ball in the wrong pocket.

This is how I think the rule should be made.

If a player pockets a ball in the wrong pocket and pockets another ball in the same pocket, if stopped there by the non shooter the ball that was first pocketed will count for the non shooter and the next ball pocketed will be spotted up and a foul will be charged to the shooter. If for some reason the shooter pockets more then 2 balls in the wrong pocket then it should be considered a no contest and the game should be played over.

Billy I.
It is an awkward situation ---> hence the awkward rule I guess. But Billy, I don't understand the "too much" advantage to the non shooter with the rule the way we have it. What could be more neutral than spotting up the contested balls? In general, I certainly believe rules should be written so that the penalty for infraction falls more into the responsibility of the shooter than the non-shooter...

Let's look at a scenario where your idea would definitely not be fair: Player B breaks, but player A makes a couple good shots and turns the game around, jumping out to a 6-0 lead legitimately, in his own pocket. Now what if player B starts shooting balls in the wrong hole, and it gets to 3-4 balls in player A's hole before it is discovered. Now do you play the game over and player B gets to start fresh with his own break??? I think you would have a big argument from player A, and justifiably so -- he did not screw up (except to not notice his opponent's screw up right away), yet he is the one penalized.
 

lll

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i think the non shooter should keep all the balls made:eek:
when the shooter is told of his error or realizes the error the shooter stops shooting
just like if he shot a ball into the side pocket and nothing into his pocket
except the balls he made for the non shooter stick

its the price you pay for your mistake
 

gulfportdoc

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wincardona said:
I think that this is a clumsy rule and should be changed. The non shooter has too much of an advantage with the rule the way it reads, and that is clearly unfair. I believe it's as much as a responsibility to the non shooter as it is to the shooter to stop the shooter after he's pocketed a ball in the wrong pocket.

This is how I think the rule should be made.

If a player pockets a ball in the wrong pocket and pockets another ball in the same pocket, if stopped there by the non shooter the ball that was first pocketed will count for the non shooter and the next ball pocketed will be spotted up and a foul will be charged to the shooter. If for some reason the shooter pockets more then 2 balls in the wrong pocket then it should be considered a no contest and the game should be played over.
Billy, your rule is not without merit, although I don't understand your reasoning about the shooter getting a foul.

But the fact is, most players have trouble remembering simple rules, such as what to do with an unspotted ball when it's discovered later; so how do you suppose players would remember your complicated proposed rule for this circumstance?;)

Doc
 

wincardona

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NH Steve said:
It is an awkward situation ---> hence the awkward rule I guess. But Billy, I don't understand the "too much" advantage to the non shooter with the rule the way we have it. What could be more neutral than spotting up the contested balls? In general, I certainly believe rules should be written so that the penalty for infraction falls more into the responsibility of the shooter than the non-shooter...

Let's look at a scenario where your idea would definitely not be fair: Player B breaks, but player A makes a couple good shots and turns the game around, jumping out to a 6-0 lead legitimately, in his own pocket. Now what if player B starts shooting balls in the wrong hole, and it gets to 3-4 balls in player A's hole before it is discovered. Now do you play the game over and player B gets to start fresh with his own break??? I think you would have a big argument from player A, and justifiably so -- he did not screw up (except to not notice his opponent's screw up right away), yet he is the one penalized.
Steve, chances of that happening is very slim to none. It's never happened to me, and I don't recall anyone saying that it happened to them.

The reason the non shooter has a big advantage with the rules that are in place is that if a player pockets a ball into the wrong pocket and continues to shoot the non shooter will then wait for the shooter to play good position before calling the foul. So if the shooter that pockets a ball into the wrong pocket shoots quickly before the non shooter can stop him then it should be a foul. That can possibly happen the way described. But the shooter cannot possibly pocket more then 2 balls without the non shooter contesting, because there will be sufficient time for the non shooter to contest.

Billy I.
 

1pocket1

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cuesmith said:
Jennie, that was a good one. I have a buddy who's a little "absent minded" and he can't help it, he's from West Virginia. lol One year at the derby he played in the one pocket tournament and was on a good run. He ran 3 balls in his pocket then shot the next ball in his opponents pocket! lol I've seen a lot of people shoot at the wrong pocket, myself included, but he's the only guy I ever saw change pockets in mid-run!
I thought I was the only player to change holes in mid-stream. It was very embarrassing. LOL (ps- also very expensive!)

Ken Thomason
 

NH Steve

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wincardona said:
Steve, chances of that happening is very slim to none. It's never happened to me, and I don't recall anyone saying that it happened to them.

The reason the non shooter has a big advantage with the rules that are in place is that if a player pockets a ball into the wrong pocket and continues to shoot the non shooter will then wait for the shooter to play good position before calling the foul. So if the shooter that pockets a ball into the wrong pocket shoots quickly before the non shooter can stop him then it should be a foul. That can possibly happen the way described. But the shooter cannot possibly pocket more then 2 balls without the non shooter contesting, because there will be sufficient time for the non shooter to contest.

Billy I.
Yeah, "wait for the shooter to play good position before calling the foul" -- that is similar to the old fashioned rule (that you must remember), that the opponent can let them shoot as long as they want, then call it and the balls all count for the non-shooter. They also said if the shooter got all the way out in the wrong pocket, then the shooter won if it wasn't noticed and called by that time. That was Fats' rule anyway. It seems like with any rule, there are always ways that smart players can take advantage... pick your poison I guess.
 

lll

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NH Steve said:
Yeah, "wait for the shooter to play good position before calling the foul" -- that is similar to the old fashioned rule (that you must remember), that the opponent can let them shoot as long as they want, then call it and the balls all count for the non-shooter.
i guess im old because i thought that WAS/IS the rule:eek:
when did it change?? i still dont understand why it changed:confused:
 

NH Steve

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lll said:
i guess im old because i thought that WAS/IS the rule:eek:
when did it change?? i still dont understand why it changed:confused:
Well it was never anywhere as an official rule. We adopted what we have here on OnePocket.org basically to try to establish a standard that tournament directors and players can both use to limit arguments -- limiting arguments is really the bottom line.
 
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