Shoot or Duck?

Dudley

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This is a scenario that I have always fired at my hole. I was wondering if everyone else here would also do the same thing. Most of the tables I'm playing on these days are crazy tight (around 4 ") which has allot to do with why I would bring this up.

If you did shoot at your pocket (A) how would you shoot it? Would you slow roll and aim at the thin part of the pocket in order to not sell a bank? Or would you play a firmer speed in order to guarantee that the ball rolled true and was a comfortable stroke. In my pool experience spot shots haven't been a common thing--especially frozen on the rail.

Maybe some would play safe from this spot but I would have a hard time justifying it.

Dudley


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYXX3BWDY3CTiY4DOTY3ELyY3FRNY4GALY4HLiW4IQwY4JJFY4KWDY4LTaY4MYXY3NJNY3OOkY1PVUk3QcIs@[/CUETABLE]
 

NH Steve

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I have missed enough spot shots to learn not to slow roll them when they are the only ball on the table. Your shot is a little thinner hit than a standard spot shot as you have drawn it, though. But it is still close enough to a spot shot angle that I would not be slow-rolling it, I'd be stroking at it with enough speed to bring the 7-ball back up table somewhere -- anywhere but but leave it down there. And I'd be praying a lot :)
 

Fanatic

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NH Steve said:
I have missed enough spot shots to learn not to slow roll them when they are the only ball on the table. Your shot is a little thinner hit than a standard spot shot as you have drawn it, though. But it is still close enough to a spot shot angle that I would not be slow-rolling it, I'd be stroking at it with enough speed to bring the 7-ball back up table somewhere -- anywhere but but leave it down there. And I'd be praying a lot :)
I wouldn't give up this shot to my hole for a safe but I would be sure to shoot it as safely as posible. I have to agree with Steve I would never slow roll this shot; I would hit it at a good medium speed in case of a miss not to sell out a simple bank and yes there would be some slight praying.
XOXO
Fanny
 

vapros

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My chances of making an accurate shot from this position, whether shooting to make the ball or play a safe, are not very good, and I don't like any of the safes anyway. I'm rolling the rock 2" along the head rail and leaving it there for him. I like my chances better with a second ball on the spot. :rolleyes:
 

Dudley

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vapros said:
My chances of making an accurate shot from this position, whether shooting to make the ball or play a safe, are not very good, and I don't like any of the safes anyway. I'm rolling the rock 2" along the head rail and leaving it there for him. I like my chances better with a second ball on the spot. :rolleyes:

Solid option Vapros,

Being the gopher that I am I think 9 times out of 10 I'm shooting for the win but If I was playing on a table with excessive roll or feeling weak I might consider this as the best choice.

Mr. doright :)
 

Skin

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Dudley, for me that is probably about an even money shot so I would shoot it unless I am hitting them bad.

I would use inside english and play the cue ball to near his long rail past the side pocket. I'm more likely to overcut it with inside if I don't make it, which would leave the 7 close to the short rail on my side of the table. He shouldn't have a good shot at his hole on my miss (famous last words!). I would NOT shoot just to cinch the 7. I think you have to play leave off it in order not to sell-out on a miss.

Skin
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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Dudley said:
This is a scenario that I have always fired at my hole. I was wondering if everyone else here would also do the same thing. Most of the tables I'm playing on these days are crazy tight (around 4 ") which has allot to do with why I would bring this up.

If you did shoot at your pocket (A) how would you shoot it? Would you slow roll and aim at the thin part of the pocket in order to not sell a bank? Or would you play a firmer speed in order to guarantee that the ball rolled true and was a comfortable stroke. In my pool experience spot shots haven't been a common thing--especially frozen on the rail.

Maybe some would play safe from this spot but I would have a hard time justifying it.

Dudley


[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3AYXX3BWDY3CTiY4DOTY3ELyY3FRNY4GALY4HLiW4IQwY4JJFY4KWDY4LTaY4MYXY3NJNY3OOkY1PVUk3QcIs@[/CUETABLE]

Dudley........This is a most excellent shot question - this shot choice comes up a lot, and it's not an easy one to make - I don't think there's a definite right or wrong choice here....

Many things play into it like: Can you outmove and outbank your opponent ? - if so, then playing safe is a good choice......How well do you know the table?, how straight do you shoot?, how tight are the pockets ?.....

For myself....If I know the speed of the table well, and I know it rolls straight, and the pockets aren't super tight, I will usually go for the shot (sometimes regretting it afterwards, lol)....But, I personally, will shoot it at pocket speed....I play, and believe strongly in, a pocket speed style of game, so I'm comfortable in feeling like the great majority of the time I can hit this shot with exacting enough of pocket speed to not sell out the bank if I miss.


- Ghost
 

jay helfert

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Dudley........This is a most excellent shot question - this shot choice comes up a lot, and it's not an easy one to make - I don't think there's a definite right or wrong choice here....

Many things play into it like: Can you outmove and outbank your opponent ? - if so, then playing safe is a good choice......How well do you know the table?, how straight do you shoot?, how tight are the pockets ?.....

For myself....If I know the speed of the table well, and I know it rolls straight, and the pockets aren't super tight, I will usually go for the shot (sometimes regretting it afterwards, lol)....But, I personally, will shoot it at pocket speed....I play, and believe strongly in, a pocket speed style of game, so I'm comfortable in feeling like the great majority of the time I can hit this shot with exacting enough of pocket speed to not sell out the bank if I miss.


- Ghost
You want to slightly over cut the ball, aiming for the high side of the pocket. That way if you miss it will lay on the end rail and not leave an easy bank for your opponent. The Ghost is right about pocket speed. That is very important here. I don't like to fire at shots like this. I'd rather roll it, better chance to make it that way.
 

Skin

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jay helfert said:
You want to slightly over cut the ball, aiming for the high side of the pocket. That way if you miss it will lay on the end rail and not leave an easy bank for your opponent. The Ghost is right about pocket speed. That is very important here. I don't like to fire at shots like this. I'd rather roll it, better chance to make it that way.
The only virtue to pocket speed on this shot that I see is that it might take away the angle to shoot a hanger in and scratch behind. Everything else is a negative on a miss, imo.

Skin
 

Dudley

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thanks all for the responses.

The idea of pocket speed does make allot of sense in this scenario. I am pretty sure I can jaw the 7 ball consistantly. If it isn't hit hard enough to get out of the jaws how can you sell a bank?

Dudley
 

Cowboy Dennis

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Dudley........This is a most excellent shot question - this shot choice comes up a lot, and it's not an easy one to make - I don't think there's a definite right or wrong choice here....

Many things play into it like: Can you outmove and outbank your opponent ? - if so, then playing safe is a good choice......How well do you know the table?, how straight do you shoot?, how tight are the pockets ?.....

For myself....If I know the speed of the table well, and I know it rolls straight, and the pockets aren't super tight, I will usually go for the shot (sometimes regretting it afterwards, lol)....But, I personally, will shoot it at pocket speed....I play, and believe strongly in, a pocket speed style of game, so I'm comfortable in feeling like the great majority of the time I can hit this shot with exacting enough of pocket speed to not sell out the bank if I miss.


- Ghost

Ghosty,

You read my mind with every word you wrote. How often do you hear that? As long as you know the table, roll it on in. I'll add one more thing: when you start thinking about what's going to happen if you miss your game ball, and how to miss it correctly, you already lost anyway.

Dennis
 

jay helfert

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Skin said:
The only virtue to pocket speed on this shot that I see is that it might take away the angle to shoot a hanger in and scratch behind. Everything else is a negative on a miss, imo.

Skin

You forgot one thing. YOU MIGHT MAKE THE BALL!
 

Fanatic

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Ghosty,** You read my mind with every word you wrote. How often do you hear that? As long as you know the table, roll it on in. I'll add one more thing: when you start thinking about what's going to happen if you miss your game ball, and how to miss it correctly, you already lost anyway.Dennis
Dennis, pretty much I agree with you and I mean no disrespect when I say this but I have to disagree with you and Ghost on this one. Look where he is; he's frozen to the rail. Unfortunatly I have been in this spot many times sometimes as it is diagramed and sometimes with other balls on the table but my success rate with a slow roll has never been period! Usually a slow roll/pocket speed makes the ball veer slightly missing the shot all together and leaving a usually easy cross bank; maybe it's because i shoot on a very difficult table but lets be honest most tables in pool rooms are difficult especially on a tight box. I personally have a better chance at medium speed because the ball rolls truer and if you miss there is a less likely chance of a sell out. Now i know you say if you think of a miss you've lost anyway and normally I'd agree but not from this spot; nothing here is guaranteed you have to think about a miss cause it's highly posible. There is a difference between talking yourself out of a shot and preparing for the worse case senario. Now maybe you are really good at these' I unfortunatly am not (at pocket speed) but if I were Dudley i would practice this shot and see which speed is best for his personal style; maybe it's yours and maybe it's mine and maybe it's neither but this shot I know is no hanger and shouldn't be treated as such.
XOXO
Fanny

P.S--I hope you know I still love you:)
 

senor

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Dudley said:
thanks all for the responses.

The idea of pocket speed does make allot of sense in this scenario. I am pretty sure I can jaw the 7 ball consistantly. If it isn't hit hard enough to get out of the jaws how can you sell a bank?

Dudley
You'd be surprised. I'm interested to see others reponses on here, specifically to my next thought... I'd say you're just as likely to sell out a shot with a miss whether it's hit at pocket speed or hit firmly.

It just depends on preference. Those who like to slow roll it can say after they sell out that at least they were trying to play a shot. Those who like to fire it can say after they sell out that they weren't going to leave an opportunity for a short cross corner. Both shots have their justifications. Personally, I felt like I'd make the spot shot from anywhere you left me 8.5 out of 10 times if I hit it at a comfortable pace. That was reason enough for me to hit it firmly every time.
 

Skin

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jay helfert said:
You forgot one thing. YOU MIGHT MAKE THE BALL!
Not really, Jay. Just remembering lessons learned from when the spot shot on the 9 for the cheese was commonplace. I prefer to play that shot - which is a lot tougher than a spot shot - like a 9 baller rather than a one-pocketeer. To each his own, though.

Skin
 

lll

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do we agree its easy to sell out if you miss? whether hit soft firm or drilled? if the answer is yes than to me it all has to do with confidence in making the shot. you shoot to make it whichever way you do it. no different than running balls while the opponent has one hanging in his pocket. otherwise , i play safe. to me this is not a 2 way shot
 

Skin

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lll said:
do we agree its easy to sell out if you miss? whether hit soft firm or drilled? if the answer is yes than to me it all has to do with confidence in making the shot. you shoot to make it whichever way you do it. no different than running balls while the opponent has one hanging in his pocket. otherwise , i play safe. to me this is not a 2 way shot
Larry, I don't think you are likely to sell out if you build the shot a) to slightly overcut if you miss, and b) to get this fairly predictable leave.

Skin

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lll

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thats one of my plays to play safe. frozen to the rail im not sure i could puposely cheat the pocket and make the ball. for me im going to try to make it straight through the uprights or play the shot to leave what you diagrammed
 

Skin

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lll said:
thats one of my plays to play safe. frozen to the rail im not sure i could puposely cheat the pocket and make the ball. for me im going to try to make it straight through the uprights or play the shot to leave what you diagrammed
Larry, I am shooting for center pocket but putting the little bit of inside on the cue ball available frozen to the rail. For me, that will cancel the tendency to undercut the 7 from that angle. If I miss the contact point on the 7, it will most likely be to the left rather than the right, therefore. I don't like my chance of shooting to cheat the pocket on that shot, either.

Skin
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Fanatic said:
Dennis, pretty much I agree with you and I mean no disrespect when I say this but I have to disagree with you and Ghost on this one. Look where he is; he's frozen to the rail. Unfortunatly I have been in this spot many times sometimes as it is diagramed and sometimes with other balls on the table but my success rate with a slow roll has never been period! Usually a slow roll/pocket speed makes the ball veer slightly missing the shot all together and leaving a usually easy cross bank; maybe it's because i shoot on a very difficult table but lets be honest most tables in pool rooms are difficult especially on a tight box. I personally have a better chance at medium speed because the ball rolls truer and if you miss there is a less likely chance of a sell out. Now i know you say if you think of a miss you've lost anyway and normally I'd agree but not from this spot; nothing here is guaranteed you have to think about a miss cause it's highly posible. There is a difference between talking yourself out of a shot and preparing for the worse case senario. Now maybe you are really good at these' I unfortunatly am not (at pocket speed) but if I were Dudley i would practice this shot and see which speed is best for his personal style; maybe it's yours and maybe it's mine and maybe it's neither but this shot I know is no hanger and shouldn't be treated as such.
XOXO
Fanny

P.S--I hope you know I still love you:)

Fanny,

I don't think anybody is really good at this shot. It's tough. I just meant that you need to make up your mind to shoot it(however you like) or play safe. But don't try to shoot it and play safe.

And you'd be surprised how few times you sell out a return bank from here if you roll it and miss. Assuming you know your table and how it rolls.

And I know you still love me.

Dennis
 
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