shane /gentile 72635

t-dog

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One Pocket players seek ways to trap and secure easy shots, then they shoot to run out. Rotation players with limited one pocket experience are far less patient, and just look to run out.

Tom
There is a lot of knowledge in that little statement.

Know who they are and use it against them.
 

wincardona

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what you gain trapping off the 6 ball you lose blocking value in subsequent innings.. part of what makes the 13 ball bank a good option is when the cue ball is back up table the 6 ball blocks your opponent from getting at any balls by your pocket.. so there are pros and cons to both options... i guess its whatever suits your fancy.. this was a really good WWYD with alot of options... usually when someone is down 5 to 0 there are not this many choices, in this case the balls lay in such a way that there are.
Good post Rob. The ball position is the dictator, or at least it has a loud voice in the decision making process. Solid one pocket players will place more emphasis on moving/trapping in situatuons like this one, imo. The shooter has a strong positional advantage and it needs to be treated as such, playing too wrecklessly here will only add confidence to the player with the lead, playing solidly will send a message thay you're not going to serve up anything that's not earned.

Dr. Bill
 

lll

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great discussion everyone..i really got alot out of it......:)
shane decided to trap him on the 3
sc3.jpg

sc4.jpg
 

wincardona

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great discussion everyone..i really got alot out of it......:)
shane decided to trap him on the 3
View attachment 14457

View attachment 14458
Allow me to explain what I believe is the value in banking the 13ball compared to playing off the 6ball like you see here.

As you can see after playing off the 6ball there are no balls either near the pocket or near the bottom rail. Had the shooter (VanBoening) had the ability to position the 6ball in either of the two places I described then Gentile would of been in a world of trouble. But as it appears Gentile can now shoot off the 3ball and travel three rails around the table, actually playing it four to five rails and end up near the first diamond from Gentiles pocket. Of course Gentile isn't out of trouble but for now he is.

Lets take a look at the option with crossing the 13ball in comparison to playing off the 6ball like Shane just did. Crossing the 13ball there's a good chance the 13ball will clip the 5ball sending the 5ball close to the pocket and the 13ball near the bottom rail, or possibly crossing the 13ball missing the 5ball and ending up within a diamond to the pocket. This option will be stronger if the shooter can position the cue ball up table near the center diamond near the rail. If this option is executed well then Gentile may not have an escape from the trap like he has now. Keep in mind that playing off the 6ball is a strong shot providing you can control the 6ball to an area that's difficult to defend against.

Hopefully now you can see the value both options carry if executed well.

Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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I like this shot, only question is the speed? Probably doesn't matter, but it looks like the 6 isn't going to stay near the pocket/ foot rail, with the speed required to advance the CB between the 3 ball and the rail. Like I said, probably doesn't matter, it's the trapping of the CB that's big with this shot.
You nailed it again Jeff, the speed wasn't there for the option to be as effective as one would like it to be. However, you were wrong when you said "it's the trapping of the cue ball thats big with the shot" Positioni g the 6ball is huge and I believe you know it but dodn't think as deeply about it, jmo.

You have a ton of knowledge, and your pool IQ is off the charts, again, jmo

Dr. Bill
 

Island Drive

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Allow me to explain what I believe is the value in banking the 13ball compared to playing off the 6ball like you see here.

As you can see after playing off the 6ball there are no balls either near the pocket or near the bottom rail. Had the shooter (VanBoening) had the ability to position the 6ball in either of the two places I described then Gentile would of been in a world of trouble. But as it appears Gentile can now shoot off the 3ball and travel three rails around the table, actually playing it four to five rails and end up near the first diamond from Gentiles pocket. Of course Gentile isn't out of trouble but for now he is.

Lets take a look at the option with crossing the 13ball in comparison to playing off the 6ball like Shane just did. Crossing the 13ball there's a good chance the 13ball will clip the 5ball sending the 5ball close to the pocket and the 13ball near the bottom rail, or possibly crossing the 13ball missing the 5ball and ending up within a diamond to the pocket. This option will be stronger if the shooter can position the cue ball up table near the center diamond near the rail. If this option is executed well then Gentile may not have an escape from the trap like he has now. Keep in mind that playing off the 6ball is a strong shot providing you can control the 6ball to an area that's difficult to defend against.

Hopefully now you can see the value both options carry if executed well.

Dr. Bill
This one outcome of banking the 13 could give the shooter a game changing table position, with near zero chance of selling out.
 

lll

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what are the thoughts on this option or some variant
moving both stripes
you could also draw down to the head rail which i like better
sc6.jpg
 

wincardona

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what are the thoughts on this option or some variant
moving both stripes
you could also draw down to the head rail which i like better
View attachment 14461
Imo that would be over kill, you don't need it because you already have a superior ball position. Your mission from here should be to move a ball close to your pocket and play a good cue ball, and play a good cue ball. Yes, play a good cue ball, your option creates problems with taking care of the important part of the shot, playing a good cue ball.

Dr. Bill
 

Jeff sparks

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You nailed it again Jeff, the speed wasn't there for the option to be as effective as one would like it to be. However, you were wrong when you said "it's the trapping of the cue ball thats big with the shot" Positioni g the 6ball is huge and I believe you know it but dodn't think as deeply about it, jmo.

You have a ton of knowledge, and your pool IQ is off the charts, again, jmo

Dr. Bill
Thank you.

You're right again, I don't think deep ( far enough ahead ) to be a good player at the game, but I'm getting better at seeing the value in trapping as opposed to shooting, which only a few short months ago was basically all I was interested in doing. That nine ball mentality is hard to shake, but the more I play and the more I tune in here, the better I am able to slow my pace and look for the proper shot.

Next up for me will be training myself to evaluate my opponents returns off of my planned leave. This will be difficult for me, I am just beginning to get used to taking the time to find the correct shot, be it offensive or defensive. Now in order to advance my skill, I will be taking more time weighing in the possible options he will have.

I know the great players do this and perhaps even an inning beyond this, but for the most part, with a few exceptions such as Alex and Jeremy, ( two who I know of for sure that look em over carefully ) most have tons more experience at the table from which they have gained experience and therefore are able to find the proper shot in a fraction of the time it takes me now.

I'm not complaining about it, on the contrary, it's teaching me patience in other areas of my life also. I'm fascinated with the game of one pocket, I truly feel it's given me a new lease on life and quite possibly might add some time on my personal game clock.

Wow, sorry, got carried away AGAIN!
 

Mkbtank

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shane /gentile 72635

Larry... How did it work out for him? Do you recall how the game played out?
 

beatle

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okay try this folks.

what are your chances being shane say of making the 8 ball and as a result winning the game. how about 35%. maybe a little lower or even maybe higher.

what are the chances of winning the game being down 5 balls and hitting the 13 well and leaving him not much to shoot at. do you think you will win more often than one time in three? with having to make up those 5 balls. you are in effect playing him and spotting him 8 to 3 here. then that is the shot if you take the second positon and i give in to the crowd.

those two % are what you need to evaluate the situation. without those you are shooting from the hip in the dark.

each of us will have different % according to our moving or shooting ability.
 

Island Drive

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Allow me to explain what I believe is the value in banking the 13ball compared to playing off the 6ball like you see here.

As you can see after playing off the 6ball there are no balls either near the pocket or near the bottom rail. Had the shooter (VanBoening) had the ability to position the 6ball in either of the two places I described then Gentile would of been in a world of trouble. But as it appears Gentile can now shoot off the 3ball and travel three rails around the table, actually playing it four to five rails and end up near the first diamond from Gentiles pocket. Of course Gentile isn't out of trouble but for now he is.

Lets take a look at the option with crossing the 13ball in comparison to playing off the 6ball like Shane just did. Crossing the 13ball there's a good chance the 13ball will clip the 5ball sending the 5ball close to the pocket and the 13ball near the bottom rail, or possibly crossing the 13ball missing the 5ball and ending up within a diamond to the pocket. This option will be stronger if the shooter can position the cue ball up table near the center diamond near the rail. If this option is executed well then Gentile may not have an escape from the trap like he has now. Keep in mind that playing off the 6ball is a strong shot providing you can control the 6ball to an area that's difficult to defend against.

Hopefully now you can see the value both options carry if executed well.

Dr. Bill
Like TH's books Name, Controlled Aggression....this shot is a perfect example of his book title. Your doing so much with a simple lag speed table length bank, with Very little chance of mishap. Be even nicer and very probable.... shooter may not need to cue off center to cross bank the 13 to get desired results.
 

wincardona

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Like TH's books Name, Controlled Aggression....this shot is a perfect example of his book title. Your doing so much with a simple lag speed table length bank, with Very little chance of mishap. Be even nicer and very probable.... shooter may not need to cue off center to cross bank the 13 to get desired results.
You could very well be right Bill, quite possibly a center ball hit will get the job done, which needs to be figured out when you're at the table feeling the trueness of the angle.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

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Like TH's books Name, Controlled Aggression....this shot is a perfect example of his book title. Your doing so much with a simple lag speed table length bank, with Very little chance of mishap. Be even nicer and very probable.... shooter may not need to cue off center to cross bank the 13 to get desired results.
Bill, This is the essence of one pocket trapping strategy. This we all know but sometimes we end up focused on immediate results and fail to recognize the value of the simple yet effective "move". It is not a bad idea when confronted with situations like this, to search for three possibilities before making a final decision. This way you will rarely overlook the most effective shot.

It turns out that to physically stop the six close to the foot rail while also trapping the cue ball on the three was not in the cards. So, banking the thirteen may have been a better alternative. That being said, Chris is still in a lot of trouble and he has very limited escape options. Dr. Bill suggests he thin the cue ball off the three and bring the cue ball multiple rails to the foot rail. Okay, so now Shane can bring the thirteen across to his side of the table and the cue ball up table and toward his upper corner. The thirteen may even block Chris' view of the six. A strangle hold is developing and a desperation shot is right around the corner.

The idea is always, when turning the table over to an opponent, to severely limit his responses. In this way you will rarely be negatively surprised by what they do.

Tom
 
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lll

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Imo that would be over kill, you don't need it because you already have a superior ball position. Your mission from here should be to move a ball close to your pocket and play a good cue ball, and play a good cue ball. Yes, play a good cue ball, your option creates problems with taking care of the important part of the shot, playing a good cue ball.

Dr. Bill
bill here was arties thoughts when i first posted it several years ago
btw you still liked the bank on the 13 (which i think artie thinks is the 11)
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The 11 ball would be my choice. Its the best and the easiest shot to control.For a player like Shane with his ability and talent.And loosing the game 5 to nothing. If I was couching Shane. I would have him Shooting the 14 ball behind the 11 ball Both balls will go to his pocket and we could even make a ball. All the balls will be by Shane pocket where he will be in great shape. And he moved two balls of the rail from his opponents side. Where he would have to bank the balls to make them. And the balls are laying at a good angle. Shane can but the cue ball by the first diamond on the other side. Or by the first diamond on the end rail on the other players side. This shot is for players like Shane Efren Scott Frost Cliff Gab and top players who have a lot of talent and control. For the average players I would recommend banking the 11 ball. And evnen if he hits the 14 ball bad he cant do much wrong.
anyones thoughts ???
 

gulfportdoc

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... But as it appears Gentile can now shoot off the 3ball and travel three rails around the table, actually playing it four to five rails and end up near the first diamond from Gentiles pocket. Of course Gentile isn't out of trouble but for now he is.
...

I don't think the angle is there to shoot off the 3 and bring the CB around 3 to 5 rails. Even so, Chris could still take an intentional using that route; but that might not be the best intentional. Then he's only up 4-0.

What's interesting is that if the CB is frozen to the 3, he can shoot right through it and knock away the 2 ball. That shot might require some study.;)

Back to the initial layout, as I said in post #21, I'd take a long look at both the 13 and 6 ball shots. But I'd choose the 3/rail trap because I have a better feel for the shot.

IMO the 13 bank is good only if something drops, or if the 14 can be bumped away with the CB after it comes back up off the foot rail. Otherwise unless the CB is frozen or real close to the head rail, most good players are going to shoot in that 14; especially on dry fairly easy pockets like they're playing on.

Be curious to see what Chris DID do from here....

~Doc
 

gulfportdoc

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bill here was arties thoughts when i first posted it several years ago
btw you still liked the bank on the 13 (which i think artie thinks is the 11)
;;;;;;;;;

anyones thoughts ???
Larry, this is the first time you've "trapped" us with a WWYD!:D You devil.

So it sounds as though Artie likes the 13 ball bank for average players. He did mention bumping the 14 away on the shot, which I think is critical.

But for top players, he likes your shot, Larry!:)

~Doc
 

lll

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Larry, this is the first time you've "trapped" us with a WWYD!:D You devil.

So it sounds as though Artie likes the 13 ball bank for average players. He did mention bumping the 14 away on the shot, which I think is critical.

But for top players, he likes your shot, Larry!:)

~Doc
for the newcomers
read this thread
its what it was like WHEN GIANTS ROAMED THE WORLD,,,,,,:heh
http://www.onepocket.org/forum/showthread.php?t=9108&highlight=gentile
AHHHHHHHHH
for the record it was arties suggection which steve booth diagramed
i had nothing to do with it...:eek::eek::eek::eek:
the good old days..:D
 
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