Scott/efren again

wincardona

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So I take it you would think its OK if you didn't hit a ball and had to spot one (I do)?

Until Frank laid out what you said I was on the fence but it looks like it's even worth a scratch (ala Joyner) to reverse it on him like that.


This is probably a great example of what most people wouldn't do. Nobody wants to put one up on purpose but the end result is worth way more than the ball (hopefully the game).


P.S. I changed the names in your quote from Efren to Scott to keep it correct
Of course it's worth a ball to get where I suggested, that's why if you choose the two rail kick option you play it to come short, not long. Playing the kick to come short, adds to the low risk advantage you have shooting it.

Dr. Bill
 
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stevelomako

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Of course it's worth a ball to get where I suggested, that's why if you choose the two rail kick option you play it to come short, not long. Playing the kick to come short, adds to the low risk advantage you have shooting it.

Dr. Bill

That seals it for me. Makes a big difference when the ball was put there instead of visualizing.

Now we would have to move on to what Scott would do in that position. He'll get out of it but Efren will be in a way better position than before like you said.


Gotta go, we're going to go tow Irish drunks out of the ditches all nite. $$$
 

wincardona

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leaving scott like this
View attachment 5690
Well I guess the Ghost's shot was not laying too good. or it wasn't even an option.:( Imo neither was the shot Reyes end up shooting, he's not going to like his next shot. Really don't know what he was thinking about choosing that shot. As you can plainly see Frost now has taken control of this position based on the shot Reyes just shot.:confused:

Maybe the Ghost can coach Reyes.:D

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Well I guess the Ghost's shot was not laying too good. or it wasn't even an option.:( Imo neither was the shot Reyes end up shooting, he's not going to like his next shot. Really don't know what he was thinking about choosing that shot. As you can plainly see Frost now has taken control of this position based on the shot Reyes just shot.:confused:

Maybe the Ghost can coach Reyes.:D

Dr. Bill
In situations like the one that Reyes was in, when there isn't anything available you must look to take an intentional. The kick on the 10 ball was too risky, even for Reyes. The Ghost's shot was not available either, for whatever reasons. Playing off the ball in the top left pocket was maybe blocked by the ball in the center of the table, so that may not of been available. Playing off the 5 ball was available, and a better shot than the one Reyes shot. But the two cushion kick was available, and now as we look back we can see why choosing that shot may have been the right thing to do.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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This next shot is a very important shot, for Frost. I'm assuming he's going to play off the 3 ball and duck behind the balls, trapping Reyes. If I was Frost I would put much more emphasis on controlling the cue ball, and not nearly as much in controlling the 3 ball. Quite often in situations like this one the shooter tries to do too much (like banking the 3 ball two cushions at his pocket) when the value and important part of this shot is the cue ball. The balls are laying favorably for Frost, he doesn't need the 3 ball near his pocket, especially if he's going to jeopardize the value in the shot, which is controlling the cue ball.

Dr. Bill
 

lll

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In situations like the one that Reyes was in, when there isn't anything available you must look to take an intentional. The kick on the 10 ball was too risky, even for Reyes. The Ghost's shot was not available either, for whatever reasons. Playing off the ball in the top left pocket was maybe blocked by the ball in the center of the table, so that may not of been available. Playing off the 5 ball was available, and a better shot than the one Reyes shot. But the two cushion kick was available, and now as we look back we can see why choosing that shot may have been the right thing to do.

Dr. Bill
billy i liked that shot alot...:)
you get a green cyber cookie just becuuse its st patricks day and your shot selection...:D
even if someone didnt know how to get back to diamond 2 on the short rail
you should be able to get between the stripe and "the wall"
even if you took a scratch
much better than efrens shot
jmho
 

lll

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i wont belaber this thread much longer because that shot was the last efren took in that game...:eek:......:sorry
he didnt play off the 3 but instead 2 railed the 11??
you could tell he was playing all cue ball as the cue ball drew straight bakck behind the wall
the camera angle obscured the view but eveidently the 11 comboed in a ball and scott was in perfect position to run out
fr6.jpg

fr7.jpg
 

jtompilot

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i wont belaber this thread much longer because that shot was the last efren took in that game...:eek:......:sorry
he didnt play off the 3 but instead 2 railed the 11??
you could tell he was playing all cue ball as the cue ball drew straight bakck behind the wall
the camera angle obscured the view but eveidently the 11 comboed in a ball and scott was in perfect position to run out
View attachment 5691

View attachment 5692
A fine example of why the QB should have replaced the 5 ball with the 5 tying up the 10.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Agree with your logic? are you still high on the juju? - it wasn't logic, it was illogic...

What's so illogical about leaving a shot that carries a 99% make percentage, and a 1% chance of getting position? Just maybe he'll shoot it and settle for the obvious...no, he won't..:rolleyes:...


99% - I don't think so...He'll be shooting off the rail - with at least fairly tight pockets - and if the table rolls off in the slightest he misses...I've seen this scenario 1,000,000 times, like you have - nobody ever shoots it - not even Corey, Rafael, or Tony Chohan would shoot it..:eek:...:heh


Sorry your sick with the flu, get yourself a cup of soup.

Thanks, I did.


Dr Bill

- Gh:cool:st



....
 

One Pocket Ghost

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Really don't know what he was thinking about choosing that shot. As you can plainly see Frost now has taken control of this position based on the shot Reyes just shot.:confused:

Careful there - you're criticizing Efren - you know that's not allowed - people will hate on you for that...:heh



Maybe the Ghost can coach Reyes.:D


Most intelligent thing you've said all week..:heh...:cool:

Dr. Bill

- Ghost


....
 
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wincardona

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- Ghost
Originally Posted by wincardona *
Really don't know what he was thinking about choosing that shot. As you can plainly see Frost now has taken control of this position based on the shot Reyes just shot.
Careful there - you're criticizing Efren - you know that's not allowed - people will hate on you for that...

Maybe the Ghost can coach Reyes.

Most intelligent thing you've said all week.....

....
I always like to close a thread by saying something intelligent. :)


You're wrong again:lol


Dr. Bill
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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I always like to close a thread by saying something intelligent. :)


Your wrong again


Dr. Bill

Pretty damn funny, to say the least, when somebody says they like to make a final statement by saying something intelligent, then in that final sentence where they feebly tried to say you're wrong - they can't spell the word you're...:rolleyes:...:sorry

- Gh:cool:st
 
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sappo

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Forgive me for coming in late, I just read this entire thread and I want to say that I feel Efrin should have kicked 2 rails softly into the 10 ball when he was confronted with the shot in post #54. Billy I know you feel this was a difficult/delicate shot but I disagree. I feel this would have been an easy shot for the worlds greatest player and I believe Efrin missed a good shot. Keith
 

timdog24

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Forgive me for coming in late, I just read this entire thread and I want to say that I feel Efrin should have kicked 2 rails softly into the 10 ball when he was confronted with the shot in post #54. Billy I know you feel this was a difficult/delicate shot but I disagree. I feel this would have been an easy shot for the worlds greatest player and I believe Efrin missed a good shot. Keith
I liked that shot too at first Sappo. Like you, I don't think it would be that difficult for Efren to execute. But, even if hit well, Scott will just come off the 3 ball and stick 'em behind those three balls. And that's basically gin.

The two-rail kick at the 8/5 is probably the best shot.

Ghost, I thought about your shot, off the 3 with english and spinning back into the 5/8 (I know you hit these well:)). But, like Billy and jtpilot said, tough to do with the rock on the rail AND that 10 ball is a big ball.
A kicking fool like you shoulda been drooling to show off your billiard knowledge here:D

Anything would've been better than what Efren did though.
 

wincardona

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I liked that shot too at first Sappo. Like you, I don't think it would be that difficult for Efren to execute. But, even if hit well, Scott will just come off the 3 ball and stick 'em behind those three balls. And that's basically gin.

The two-rail kick at the 8/5 is probably the best shot.

Ghost, I thought about your shot, off the 3 with english and spinning back into the 5/8 (I know you hit these well:)). But, like Billy and jtpilot said, tough to do with the rock on the rail AND that 10 ball is a big ball.
A kicking fool like you shoulda been drooling to show off your billiard knowledge here:D

Anything would've been better than what Efren did though.
Timdog, the kick on the 10 ball is a difficult kick when you consider the distance the 10 is from the rail. (1-1/2") Not only that you must also consider the position of the cue ball resting close to the long cushion (clumsy position)more difficult to strike and judge. But I agree that if Reyes was accurate with the kick, Frost would put him behind the balls, true. But keep in mind that the 10 ball will now be positioned in an easier spot to defend against, making it a fair trade off. The position of the 10 ball was Frost's strength, and if moved to, or away from the position it's now in, Frost's position would be weakened considerably.

The option that Reyes chose, (bad option) suggested that he didn't like the kick. Neither would I. The difference in 1-1/2" and 2-1/2" from the rail is huge when kicking this kind of shot, even 1-1/2 to 2" could be a reason to kick, or not to kick.

Dr. Bill
 

tylerdurden

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Timdog, the kick on the 10 ball is a difficult kick when you consider the distance the 10 is from the rail. (1-1/2") Not only that you must also consider the position of the cue ball resting close to the long cushion (clumsy position)more difficult to strike and judge. But I agree that if Reyes was accurate with the kick, Frost would put him behind the balls, true. But keep in mind that the 10 ball will now be positioned in an easier spot to defend against, making it a fair trade off. The position of the 10 ball was Frost's strength, and if moved to, or away from the position it's now in, Frost's position would be weakened considerably.

The option that Reyes chose, (bad option) suggested that he didn't like the kick. Neither would I. The difference in 1-1/2" and 2-1/2" from the rail is huge when kicking this kind of shot, even 1-1/2 to 2" could be a reason to kick, or not to kick.

Dr. Bill
Well, that makes 2 at least (you and reyes), that is strong evidence against that kick. I like that kick, and I still like it. The cb is lying in an almost ideal position (for me anyway) to judge that kick, being almost the mirror image of the ob. I'm not saying i'd hit it perfect every time, but i like it. Look at it this way, not sure how that table was playing, but on most tables you simply hit the middle of the end rail with center ball and the cb will be where it is at now but on the other side of the table. How does that look? That shot at a slow pace tends to come very long off that second rail too, which helps keep it on the left side of the 10.

I'll also note, if you hit that kick real bad (if you get a short kick off the end rail), you have the chance to make the 10 -- there is definitely a little hidden error there, however slight.

Anyway, Efren didn't choose it, but considering the shot he DID choose, i'm not sure that is good evidence against the kick in this case. But the Dr. Bill evidence is always compelling.

Larry, can you mention is words what Efren did after Scott put him behind the 8 in that picture. I was thinking kick at that ball uptable (if he could not see it), I wondered if he did that, if you know.
 
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androd

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Larry, can you mention is words what Efren did after Scott put him behind the 8 in that picture. I was thinking kick at that ball uptable (if he could not see it), I wondered if he did that, if you know.
lll said:
i wont belabor this thread much longer because that shot was the last Efren took in that game.........
he didn't play off the 3 but instead 2 railed the 11??
you could tell he was playing all cue ball as the cue ball drew straight back behind the wall
the camera angle obscured the view but evidently the 11 combo'ed in a ball and Scott was in perfect position to run out
Attachment 5691
If this is what you're asking.?
Rod.
 
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