Scott/efren again

wincardona

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I thought about the leaving him straight-in option, but Scott would have several ways to lock you up behind that wall of balls. I don't like going up table for that reason. You could be right, but you would serve yourself better if you played the shot and then let him decide what to do. Even if he does do what you say he would you just might be in a better spot than you're in now.
You might be right about the Ghost's shot:) as the best option (which I mentioned earlier), but it seems more difficult than kicking at the 10 ball. It is imo less difficult because of the risk factor involved. Kicking at the 10 ball is a small target, kicking toward the 5-8-and 10 balls is a larger target with a much less risk.Then again, kicking at the 10 will probably result in Scott putting you behind the wall, coming off the 3 ball.
Tough spot, even for the magician.
You understand the options, now all you have to do is choose one, but most importantly the one you choose ...in this situation... you must feel comfortable with executing it, especially considering the consequence.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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You understand the options, now all you have to do is choose one, but most importantly the one you choose ...in this situation... you must feel comfortable with executing it, especially considering the consequence.

Dr. Bill
Kicking toward the 5 and 8 balls if hit decent will put your opponent in a very tough spot, plus it's a less risky kick as opposed to kicking at the 10 ball.

Dr. Bill
 

tsk7878

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would it be possible to kick softly off the head rail behind the stripe? might even get a good hit:confused:
 

jtompilot

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Houston we have a problem.:confused:

Steve's shot, kicking into the 10 ball looks good, but your target is very small, very risky shot :eek:lets look elsewhere.

Shooting the 5 ball toward the 10 ball will offer some immediate relief, for most it's an easier option than Steve's. But the forecast say's stormy day's ahead with that shot. None the less it's still an option.

I have two other options that i'll throw out there, both will suffice, but the last one I show is the strongest, and the one that I would shoot.

Lets use distance and an awkward angle as our ally's. I would consider shooting in the ball at the top left of the table positioning the cue ball on the rail straight in on the 10 ball. From that position your giving up a shot on the 10 ball with little if any position potential. This option will clear the 10 ball for a brighter future, only problem is your opponent will score it.:cool: Not a bad option for the price of a ball.

This next option is the option I would shoot, the Ghost will love this one.:D If you could put the cue ball anywhere on the table within reason where would you put it? Which by the way is how to think when we're at the table. Use your imagination and figure out the best place for the cue ball, than figure out how to get it there. I would like the cue ball to be on the opposite side of the three balls that I am in front of, the 5-8- and 10 balls. Now how do I get it there? I would kick two cushions using the top rail, then the left side rail and create the angle to go towards the three balls. This shot should be hit with the speed not to sell out if you misplay your kick.

Maybe Larry or Rodney can draw this up for us. :D

Dr. Bill
Houston are you kidding me. Go ahead and kick two rails, you have 3 balls to hit. You couldnt pay me to leave "B player or better a nice bank on that 10 ball into those three balls. Really, Really.
 

Frank Almanza

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Houston we have a problem.:confused:

Steve's shot, kicking into the 10 ball looks good, but your target is very small, very risky shot :eek:lets look elsewhere.

Shooting the 5 ball toward the 10 ball will offer some immediate relief, for most it's an easier option than Steve's. But the forecast say's stormy day's ahead with that shot. None the less it's still an option.

I have two other options that i'll throw out there, both will suffice, but the last one I show is the strongest, and the one that I would shoot.

Lets use distance and an awkward angle as our ally's. I would consider shooting in the ball at the top left of the table positioning the cue ball on the rail straight in on the 10 ball. From that position your giving up a shot on the 10 ball with little if any position potential. This option will clear the 10 ball for a brighter future, only problem is your opponent will score it.:cool: Not a bad option for the price of a ball.

This next option is the option I would shoot, the Ghost will love this one.:D If you could put the cue ball anywhere on the table within reason where would you put it? Which by the way is how to think when we're at the table. Use your imagination and figure out the best place for the cue ball, than figure out how to get it there. I would like the cue ball to be on the opposite side of the three balls that I am in front of, the 5-8- and 10 balls. Now how do I get it there? I would kick two cushions using the top rail, then the left side rail and create the angle to go towards the three balls. This shot should be hit with the speed not to sell out if you misplay your kick.

Maybe Larry or Rodney can draw this up for us. :D

Dr. Bill
Billy, is this what your talking about?bills kick.JPG
 

One Pocket Ghost

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I thought about the leaving him straight-in option, but Scott would have several ways to lock you up behind that wall of balls. I don't like going up table for that reason.

You sir, are correct - that shot is NFG...like you inferred, in a heartbeat, Scott will just come off of one of the four middle-of-the-table-area balls (most likely that solid ball in the middle of the table), over to the side rail and freeze you behind the wall...the Witch Doctor must have maybe been self-medicated on some kind of exotic juju when he suggested that shot...:heh...:sorry...


You might be right about the Ghost's shot:) as the best option (which I mentioned earlier)

Yeah, don't you just love it when guys post up a shot as if it's new to the thread - when in fact you have already posted up that same shot..:rolleyes:..it's one of the many joys (not) of engaging in these shot choice threads...:frus


but the two rail kick seems more difficult than kicking at the 10 ball. Then again, kicking at the 10 will probably result in Scott putting you behind the wall, coming off the 3 ball. Tough spot, even for the magician.

It's a tough spot, and both of these kicks are options...as has already been said - the one rail kick is easier to execute, but the two rail kick leaves the cueball in a safer/better place...

Well, I don't know why nobody's mentioned what to me looks like the hands down best shot here...

Depending on the exact lie of the balls...I would shoot at the 3ball with either a follow-through-the-ball hit, or a super thin slice with extreme left english, going to the long rail and bringing the cueball back to freeze against the wall...on the sceen it may look different to others, but to me it looks like you definitely have room to come off the long rail without touching the striped ball...and also, the benefit of choosing to shoot the shot with the follow hit instead of the slice, is that the 3ball will then come off of the striped ball and sit in a good spot for your pocket.

- Ghost
 
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jtompilot

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Well, I don't know why nobody's mentioned what to me looks like the hands down best shot here...

Depending on the exact lie of the balls...I would shoot at the 3ball with either a follow-through-the-ball hit, or a super thin slice with extreme left english, going to the long rail and bringing the cueball back to freeze against the wall...on the sceen it may look different to others, but to me it looks like you definitely have room to come off the long rail without touching the striped ball...and also, the benefit of choosing to shoot the shot with the follow hit instead of the slice, is that the 3ball will then come off of the striped ball and sit in a good spot for your pocket.

- Ghost
I did think of that but that 10 ball looks real big and juicy
 

One Pocket Ghost

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I did think of that but that 10 ball looks real big and juicy

Jim, it looks to me like a follow-through-the-ball type of hit on the 3 will allow you to go high enough on the long rail to miss the stripe...(although some players may not be familiar enough, or comfortable with, this type of hit on the object ball).
 

jtompilot

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Jim, it looks to me like a follow-through-the-ball type of hit on the 3 will allow you to go high enough on the long rail to miss the stripe...(although some players may not be familiar enough, or comfortable with, this type of hit on the object ball).
I have no problem with missing the 10. I have a problem with leaving a good player the 10 ball to bank into some balls and moving them towards his hole or even making a bank combo.
 

androd

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Well, I don't know why nobody's mentioned what to me looks like the hands down best shot here...

Depending on the exact lie of the balls...I would shoot at the 3ball with either a follow-through-the-ball hit, or a super thin slice with extreme left english, going to the long rail and bringing the cueball back to freeze against the wall...on the sceen it may look different to others, but to me it looks like you definitely have room to come off the long rail without touching the striped ball...and also, the benefit of choosing to shoot the shot with the follow hit instead of the slice, is that the 3ball will then come off of the striped ball and sit in a good spot for your pocket.

- Ghost
That's the shot I'd have shot one minute after looking at this simple layout.
Rod.
P.S. My selections are as simple as I am.:D:p
 

wincardona

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[QUOTE
Originally Posted by timdog24
I thought about the leaving him straight-in option, but Scott would have several ways to lock you up behind that wall of balls. I don't like going up table for that reason.

You sir, are correct - that shot is NFG...like you inferred, in a heartbeat, Scott will just come off of one of the four middle-of-the-table-area balls (most likely that solid ball in the middle of the table), over to the side rail and freeze you behind the wall...the Witch Doctor must have maybe been self-medicated on some kind of exotic juju when he suggested that shot......... If you read my reply to Timdog on why this shot is an option then you might agree with my logic. Your tempting Frost to shoot the ball in front of his pocket, if he opts to not do that and play the safety you don't have to be in a worse spot then you shot from. I've used this strategy many times and have gained an advantage using it quite often.
You might be right about the Ghost's shot as the best option (which I mentioned earlier)

Yeah, don't you just love it when guys post up a shot as if it's new to the thread - when in fact you have already posted up that same shot....it's one of the many joys (not) of engaging in these shot choice threads...I didn't notice that he mentioned this shot, if so he saw a good option. I don't make a practice of claiming other players shot choices, if I did I wouldn't be posting.


but the two rail kick seems more difficult than kicking at the 10 ball. Then again, kicking at the 10 will probably result in Scott putting you behind the wall, coming off the 3 ball. Tough spot, even for the magician.

It's a tough spot, and both of these kicks are options...as has already been said - the one rail kick is easier to execute, but the two rail kick leaves the cueball in a safer/better place...
[/QUOTE] You may be right about the one rail kick being easier, but you failed to mention the penalty it carried if you didn't hit your target. Unlike the two rail kick all that's needed is the right speed and decent direction and you're ending up in a much better position.

In regard to your shot coming off the 3 ball it's imo a tough shot to execute with the cue ball positioned as closely to the cushion as it is. Very hard to use english and get an accurate hit on the cue ball. Top left will not work with your shot, more like center left, but with the cue ball as close to the rail as it is it's too difficult to use center left. Reason being is the rail is covering the center of the cue ball. Plus the position of the 10 ball is a very daunting one. Could be possible but too tough of a choice for me considering the penalty it carries and the available options.

Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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That's the shot I'd have shot one minute after looking at this simple layout.
Rod.
P.S. My selections are as simple as I am.:D:p
I see you have improved your game, you just might be ready for the Hacker.;)

Dr. Bill
 

One Pocket Ghost

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If you read my reply to Timdog

I read your reply



on why this shot is an option then you might agree with my logic.


Agree with your logic? :rolleyes: are you still high on the juju? - it wasn't logic, it was illogic...:sorry


Your tempting Frost to shoot the ball in front of his pocket, if he opts to not do that and play the safety you don't have to be in a worse spot then you shot from.[/COLOR]


Please, give me a break...like Scott or any smart player is going to shoot a 9ft straight in, to get one ball, and lose the game if he misses..:rolleyes:...he's coming off the center ball - and you're going behind the wall - and yes, you will be in a much worse position afterwards...:cool:

Dr. Bill

- Ghost

PS, But don't worry, I won't be around these shot choice threads to correct you very often :) I'm only on them this week cuz I'm stuck at home with the flu.
 

wincardona

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- Ghost

PS, But don't worry, I won't be around these shot choice threads to correct you very often :) I'm only on them this week cuz I'm stuck at home with the flu.
Yea thanks for the insight, you did play pretty good in the partner match though. I should know by now to heed what advice you have to share. Thanks again.:p

Dr. Bill
 

stevelomako

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Billy, looking at Franks post #65 where he put up what you're talking about, I really think that would be the shot.

Now I have a question...it looks to me like shooting that, it might be better to NOT hit any of the balls to give Scott a chance to get out of the position he's in now.

Really look at #65, do you think you would play to hit one of the balls or play the cue ball like where Frank put it?
 

wincardona

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Billy, looking at Franks post #65 where he put up what you're talking about, I really think that would be the shot.

Now I have a question...it looks to me like shooting that, it might be better to NOT hit any of the balls to give Scott a chance to get out of the position he's in now.

Really look at #65, do you think you would play to hit one of the balls or play the cue ball like where Frank put it?
This is a type of a kick that's not often shot, but if one has a decent understanding of how to kick he should do reasonably well with the shot. To pin point the accuracy with this kick is asking a lot, the ending position in Frank's illustration is ideal, regardless how you get there. But you don't have to get exactly where he ended up, even 6" from that position, near the bottom rail will be great. I like this option for the reason that you don't have to fool with the ball near Frost pocket, and if kicked decently you put Frost in a very tough spot. This option is low risk but carries a high return.

Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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Originally Posted by wincardona

If you read my reply to Timdog

I read your reply



on why this shot is an option then you might agree with my logic.


Agree with your logic? are you still high on the juju? - it wasn't logic, it was illogic..
.What's so illogical about leaving a shot that carries a 99% make percentage, and a 1 % chance of getting position? Just maybe he'll shoot it and settle for the obvious. Like you haven't tried things that you thought was right but wasn't.:rolleyes:

Your tempting Frost to shoot the ball in front of his pocket, if he opts to not do that and play the safety you don't have to be in a worse spot then from where you shot from

Please, give me a break...like Scott or any smart player is going to shoot a 9ft straight in, to get one ball, and lose the game if he misses.....he's coming off the center ball - and you're going behind the wall - and yes, you will be in a much worse position afterwards...
]First if Frost shoots the shot he's going to make it being 9 ft. away from it...because it's 6" from the pocket.. enticing enough for anyone to want to shoot it. And if he chooses to move and put me back in a trap, yes he doesn't have to trap me as badly as where I was before I shot my shot. For you or anyone to say that I will be in a worse trap is an empty statement. How do you know where the balls are going to end up?
Dr. Bill
Sorry your sick with the flu, get yourself a cup of soup.

Dr. Bill
 

stevelomako

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This is a type of a kick that's not often shot, but if one has a decent understanding of how to kick he should do reasonably well with the shot. To pin point the accuracy with this kick is asking a lot, the ending position in Frank's illustration is ideal, regardless how you get there. But you don't have to get exactly where he ended up, even 6" from that position, near the bottom rail will be great. I like this option for the reason that you don't have to fool with the ball near Frosts pocket, and if kicked decently you put Frost in a very tough spot. This option is low risk but carries a high return.

Dr. Bill

So I take it you would think its OK if you didn't hit a ball and had to spot one (I do)?

Until Frank laid out what you said I was on the fence but it looks like it's even worth a scratch (ala Joyner) to reverse it on him like that.


This is probably a great example of what most people wouldn't do. Nobody wants to put one up on purpose but the end result is worth way more than the ball (hopefully the game).


P.S. I changed the names in your quote from Efren to Scott to keep it correct
 

Jimmy B

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This is a type of a kick that's not often shot, but if one has a decent understanding of how to kick he should do reasonably well with the shot. To pin point the accuracy with this kick is asking a lot, the ending position in Frank's illustration is ideal, regardless how you get there. But you don't have to get exactly where he ended up, even 6" from that position, near the bottom rail will be great. I like this option for the reason that you don't have to fool with the ball near Reyes pocket, and if kicked decently you put Reyes in a very tough spot. This option is low risk but carries a high return.

Dr. Bill


That was a rather unusual type of kick shot from Frank dabarber Almanza, which had not occurred to me. Even I can grasp the low risk-high return concept. A lot of good lessons this year in here for sure...
 
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