Scott/efren again

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
Playing off the 5 ball dropping under the 8 ball looks to be a strong option from this position. Especially if the 8 ball is 1-1/2" to 2-1/2" off the bottom rail. From that position you have to like your chances of dropping under it.

Your shot with banking the 5 ball into the 8 ball looks to be difficult on two fronts. The first being that the angle looks to be flat, reducing the target area going into the 8 ball. Secondly when you swing the cue ball around you have to hit it hard enough to defend against giving up a shot on the 7 ball, but not too hard because you'll be tracking toward the corner pocket with whitey. Tough shot to take with a minimal gain, plus you'll lose more often with the shot than you'll win with it. I'd look elsewhere.

Dr. Bill
Another point you should consider before choosing an option is the way the balls are positioned. In this position the balls clearly are positioned in favor of Reyes, so I would try not to look for a shot that I could give up a shot with. And that's what you'll be doing, with the 7 ball positioned where it is. I would shoot Steve's shot and when I get back to the table I most likely will be able to change the position of the balls to level the playing field.

Dr. Bill
 

jtompilot

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
4,109
Another point you should consider before choosing an option is the way the balls are positioned. In this position the balls clearly are positioned in favor of Reyes, so I would try not to look for a shot that I could give up a shot with. And that's what you'll be doing, with the 7 ball positioned where it is. I would shoot Steve's shot and when I get back to the table I most likely will be able to change the position of the balls to level the playing field.

Dr. Bill
When I get home from my road trip I'll set it up and see what works out best.

Thanks
 

treeMan

Verified Member
Joined
Sep 2, 2004
Messages
242
Not trying to be picky, but, the kick on the 8 was available from either cue ball position, so I'd say Scott wanted the bank on the 8.

That said, now there is no bank available, but the kick is still there. Personally I like the way the balls are laying for Efren, and I might soft-roll-kick at the 8 and take a scratch if needed, but STICK Scott under the 8 ball.

Worst case for Scott might be to play tippy-tap under the 8 until he can get out of there, so maybe it's not a death trap. I would like to hear the distinguished panel's opinions as to that shot's merit (or lack of) in this position.

tree

Interesting, he said .."if the ball stops here I win"...There's only one ball (from what I can see) that he can win with from this position, it has to be the 8 ball. If he likes the 8 ball from the position he pointed to, I like it too.

Lets assume it's the 8 ball he's talking about and figure out why he would like it. As a rule of thumb, kicking at balls like the 8 ball shot is usually a bad shot. Why? Because of the return shot you leave if you miss your kick. But in this instance he has a "protector" with the 5 ball. If the kick is missed the 5 ball will block a high percentage of return banks, not all banks but a high percentage. Plus the 8 ball will block just about all banks on the 5 ball if the kick is missed So if it's worth the gamble, go for it. For Frost the reward is a possible game winner.:D

By the way, the correct way to kick if that's the option you choose, would be to kick using both rails and kick it off the bottom rail with a soft speed.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
The obvious comment here is, he really opened up Efren's side. Can Efren see that ball in the upper right? Looking at this with hindsight, I don't feel that was the greatest of shots.
Your right, the way it turned out, but the execution of the shot was very good. Like I mentioned earlier Frost has to address both, the balls that won't go in his pocket (3,10,13,14 balls) around the foot spot, and the lone ball at the top right corner (12 ball) He tried to open up the balls a little, but failed to do so, now he's in trouble.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
to put efren behind the 8 ball
View attachment 5640
Reyes has a pretty strong position, there are a couple things I would be thinking from here if I were Reyes.

I know that my position is a much better position, especially considering the position of the 12 ball (top right near rail) a ball that's going to give Frost problems. Understanding this I would like to keep the cue ball down table for now and see what Frost does after I just softly play off the 8 ball and trap him between the rail and the 8 ball. From this position Frost really has big problems.

Dr. Bill
 

jtompilot

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
4,109
Your right, the way it turned out, but the execution of the shot was very good. Like I mentioned earlier Frost has to address both, the balls that won't go in his pocket (3,10,13,14 balls) around the foot spot, and the lone ball at the top right corner (12 ball) He tried to open up the balls a little, but failed to do so, now he's in trouble.

Dr. Bill
This is why I suggested banking the 5. I set up the table and banked the 5 ball ten times. When I hit the 5 too thin I didnt get the QB over far enough and sold out the solid ball in the middle of the table.

When I banked the 5 and hit the 8 ball the QB ended up in the jaws of the corner pocket or very close to the rail by the striped ball. Atleast from there not all the balls favored Efrin and there is a good chance you just turned around the game. If you hit it bad you just lost a lot sooner.
 

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,125
they did ticky tac around the 8 for a while but eventualy efren left scott here
rs1.jpg
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
Scott wouldn't have room to carom the 10-ball (?) towards his hole would he? I like it, if so...
Hope the Beard forgives me for hassling him with his shot choices,he's been hassling me for 40 years. :focus:focus

I agree with where you have the cue ball ending up, whether you play it off the balls as you have suggested, or you kick softly around the balls ending up there. Both shots have advantages, depending on how the balls are positioned should determine what shot should be chosen.

There's no question which of the two shots is the strongest, it's your shot by far. But if there is a reason that your shot isn't available, whether it be laying too high, or maybe there's a possible kiss, which maybe is not the case but if it is then I suggest to kick from this position.
Dr. Bill
 
Last edited:

lll

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 19, 2007
Messages
15,125
steve got a cookie..:D
heres scotts shot and how he left efren
fr1.jpg
 

timdog24

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
182
Like this -- me too. But Efren comes up with different solutions sometimes... :D
That's the only decent shot I see. But even after that, Scott would just play off the 3 ball and freeze em behind the wall of balls.
Like to see what other guys would do here.
The Ghost just might soft two-rail kick at the 8/5 ball.
 

jtompilot

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 17, 2009
Messages
4,109
shoot straight into the 5, leave the QB on the rail behind the other two balls. The 5 may tie up the stripe ball near the pocket.
 

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,365
imagination

imagination

Houston we have a problem.:confused:

Steve's shot, kicking into the 10 ball looks good, but your target is very small, very risky shot :eek:lets look elsewhere.

Shooting the 5 ball toward the 10 ball will offer some immediate relief, for most it's an easier option than Steve's. But the forecast say's stormy day's ahead with that shot. None the less it's still an option.

I have two other options that i'll throw out there, both will suffice, but the last one I show is the strongest, and the one that I would shoot.

Lets use distance and an awkward angle as our ally's. I would consider shooting in the ball at the top left of the table positioning the cue ball on the rail straight in on the 10 ball. From that position your giving up a shot on the 10 ball with little if any position potential. This option will clear the 10 ball for a brighter future, only problem is your opponent will score it.:cool: Not a bad option for the price of a ball.

This next option is the option I would shoot, the Ghost will love this one.:D If you could put the cue ball anywhere on the table within reason where would you put it? Which by the way is how to think when we're at the table. Use your imagination and figure out the best place for the cue ball, than figure out how to get it there. I would like the cue ball to be on the opposite side of the three balls that I am in front of, the 5-8- and 10 balls. Now how do I get it there? I would kick two cushions using the top rail, then the left side rail and create the angle to go towards the three balls. This shot should be hit with the speed not to sell out if you misplay your kick.

Maybe Larry or Rodney can draw this up for us. :D

Dr. Bill
 

timdog24

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 28, 2009
Messages
182
Houston we have a problem.:confused:


I have two other options that i'll throw out there, both will suffice, but the last one I show is the strongest, and the one that I would shoot.

Lets use distance and an awkward angle as our ally's. I would consider shooting in the ball at the top left of the table positioning the cue ball on the rail straight in on the 10 ball. From that position your giving up a shot on the 10 ball with little if any position potential. This option will clear the 10 ball for a brighter future, only problem is your opponent will score it.:cool: Not a bad option for the price of a ball.

This next option is the option I would shoot, the Ghost will love this one.:D If you could put the cue ball anywhere on the table within reason where would you put it? Which by the way is how to think when we're at the table. Use your imagination and figure out the best place for the cue ball, than figure out how to get it there. I would like the cue ball to be on the opposite side of the three balls that I am in front of, the 5-8- and 10 balls. Now how do I get it there? I would kick two cushions using the top rail, then the left side rail and create the angle to go towards the three balls. This shot should be hit with the speed not to sell out if you misplay your kick.

Maybe Larry or Rodney can draw this up for us. :D

Dr. Bill
I thought about the leaving him straight-in option, but Scott would have several ways to lock you up behind that wall of balls. I don't like going up table for that reason.
You might be right about the Ghost's shot:) as the best option (which I mentioned earlier), but it seems more difficult than kicking at the 10 ball. Then again, kicking at the 10 will probably result in Scott putting you behind the wall, coming off the 3 ball.
Tough spot, even for the magician.
 
Top