petie
Verified Member
Where did I do that?
pj
chgo
I'm not going to look it up but I think it was on the One Pocket Forum before the thread was moved to this forum.
Where did I do that?
pj
chgo
In a recent thread on AzB, folks (at least one of them a world class banker) are saying that draw on the CB makes banks go longer by transferring follow to the OB. I'm skeptical (go figure).
I think this is only true when the OB is on or very close to the rail or hit very hard.
However, I'm not a great banker, so I thought I'd check my skepticism with you 1P players who are, of necessity, good (and versatile) bankers. Whadya think?
pj
chgo
In a recent thread on AzB, folks (at least one of them a world class banker) are saying that draw on the CB makes banks go longer by transferring follow to the OB. I'm skeptical (go figure).
I think this is only true when the OB is on or very close to the rail or hit very hard. Because otherwise the OB very quickly picks up more follow from cloth friction than the small amount that can be transferred from the CB (in other words, the CB doesn't add to the effect).
For similar reasons (only more so), I think follow on the CB can only rarely shorten banks by putting draw on the OB.
However, I'm not a great banker, so I thought I'd check my skepticism with you 1P players who are, of necessity, good (and versatile) bankers. Whadya think?
pj
chgo
I guess you're referring to the part in blue above...? What I said there is that draw on the CB doesn't add more follow to the OB than it already has from rolling - maybe you mean any effect on the OB from putting draw on the CB is nullified...?Me (earlier):petie:Me:petie:
...you were the one who asserted the nullification of follow or draw.
Where did I do that?
I found it, pj. It wasn't as hard as I thought.
In a recent thread on AzB, folks (at least one of them a world class banker) are saying that draw on the CB makes banks go longer by transferring follow to the OB. I'm skeptical (go figure).
I think this is only true when the OB is on or very close to the rail or hit very hard. Because otherwise the OB very quickly picks up more follow from cloth friction than the small amount that can be transferred from the CB (in other words, the CB doesn't add to the effect).
For similar reasons (only more so), I think follow on the CB can only rarely shorten banks by putting draw on the OB.
However, I'm not a great banker, so I thought I'd check my skepticism with you 1P players who are, of necessity, good (and versatile) bankers. Whadya think?
That's what they call it in England, anyway (perverts).I could be wrong but I thought (screwing) the cball meant drawing it. JB
Ya'll ever tried Blantons? It's made 30 miles from me in Frankfort,KY.It's the best whiskey I have ever had.Knob creek is very good also. Blantons Gold is their top of the line but the Gold is very hard to come by and If you do find it,it's like 300 bucks a bottle I come across a lil every once in a while only because I have a few buds that work there JB
PS: good whiskey and pool,what a life ya'll lead
I have not but I will, only the poor boy version.
I've been smuggling "JTS Brown" (the movie inspired me) into the pool room.
A shot of good whiskey is $7.00, whats a tightwad to do ?
Rod.
P.S. Have to save my money for gambling.
Agreed. It's easy to get the impression that "swiping" the cue tip across the face of the CB would impart more side spin on it. Presumably that's how bowlers get so much swerve-- by literally twisting the ball. I've tried it myself. But it turns out that this swiping impression is not only false, but if it were true, then that would make the stroke a "double hit".... It's easy to test - and I'd bet money you can do anything with a straight stroke that can be done with a "swipe" stroke.
pj
chgo
Agreed. It's easy to get the impression that "swiping" the cue tip across the face of the CB would impart more side spin on it. Presumably that's how bowlers get so much swerve-- by literally twisting the ball. I've tried it myself. But it turns out that this swiping impression is not only false, but if it were true, then that would make the stroke a "double hit".
~Doc
You may not be able to get more on it, but you can control it more accurately because you are not having to deal with as much deflection. You don't hit it twice, it you do have a long period of contact with the tip.
Slow stroke dragging it across the face of the ball.
Guess we'll just have to live with having different opinions about this .You may not be able to get more on it, but you can control it more accurately because you are not having to deal with as much deflection. You don't hit it twice, it you do have a long period of contact with the tip.
I think any increase in spin would clearly show up as a greater change in rebound angle off a rail - I've used a simple test for that:It would definitely take a slow motion camera to count the revolutions but my sense is you can spin it harder by swiping it at higher speeds.
pj1. Place a striped ball (your "cue ball") on the spot with the stripe vertical and aligned straight across the table (pointed at the second diamond on the side rail).
2. Shoot the ball directly at the second diamond on the far side rail (so it will bounce straight back at the spot if you hit it without side spin). Put a piece of chalk on the rail turned so its corner is facing you to give you a definite, pinpoint target.
3. Hit the ball on its equator (not high or low) and right on the edge of the stripe (maximum sidespin) with just enough speed to bounce off the far side rail and barely reach the near side rail. Wipe the ball clean before each shot and check the chalkmark after each shot to see where you're actually hitting the ball. Be sure the tip is well groomed and well chalked for each test shot.
4. Mark where the ball hits the near rail (put a coin or a piece of chalk there).
5. Only count shots that you hit just right. If any of the following things doesn't happen, don't count the shot:
- You don't hit the second diamond on the far side rail exactly.
- The ball stops more than an inch or two short or long of the near side rail.
- You don't hit the "cue ball" exactly on the edge of the stripe at the equator.
6. Even being really careful you can't replicate these things exactly every time, so hit enough "good" shots so that you can use the average result - say ten "good" shots with each stroke you're testing. To be reliable your results for each stroke should be very closely grouped.
Test different strokes this way and compare the results (where the ball ends up).
If you want to try more forceful shots, then aim to stop the ball after it rebounds from the near side rail, say at the middle "long string" or at the far side rail again. Again, reject any shot that doesn't stop within an inch or two of the target distance.
This is pretty well known: slow speed, stun, half maximum sidespin.Maybe some can reply to the diagram here, to which type of stroke, speed and English will transfer the most English from the CB to the OB and to the cushion.
View attachment 11076
I wouldn't call it a swipe but there is something extra you can do with the angle at which you go at or into the cball,IMO. But it might take a slow mo camera to pick it up.I can hold some banks so much they they come backwards. I know I'm not the only one who has done this. We used to call it torking the ball. I do know that the shot is hard to teach,easy to show but hard to teach:lol JB
PS;Wonder if there is any way to make some $ while doing slow mo vids. I would do it for a good sum