Science Schmience: CB Follow/Draw for Banks

mr3cushion

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Looks like I'm going to have to dust off my science book before I login everyday! ;)
 

Patrick Johnson

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...though the cue ball is only legally struck once during a shot, it is in contact over a segment of time.
1-2 milliseconds (thousandths of a second), depending on tip offset from center, hardness and stroke speed.

There's pretty much nothing you can do with your stroke to change the contact time, because the soft flesh of the grip hand gives on impact, "decoupling" your hand/arm from the cue during the contact time. This means, for instance, that "accelerating through the ball" doesn't do anything to the ball (though it might help keep your stroke straight and give better speed control).

pj
chgo
 

gulfportdoc

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1-2 milliseconds (thousandths of a second), depending on tip offset from center, hardness and stroke speed.

There's pretty much nothing you can do with your stroke to change the contact time, because the soft flesh of the grip hand gives on impact, "decoupling" your hand/arm from the cue during the contact time. This means, for instance, that "accelerating through the ball" doesn't do anything to the ball (though it might help keep your stroke straight and give better speed control).

pj
chgo
This is why "swipe" or "drag" is not possible, unless the CB were trapped between cue tip and cushion, which would be illegal (and pretty useless:D). There's nothing wrong with using a swiping motion of the cue tip, but the tip is not staying on the CB any longer than it does in a normal forward stroke. I tried it this afternoon many times. Couldn't do it.

This may fall under your description of guys doing something for a certain result, but not actually knowing why they're getting that result (paraphrase).

~Doc
 

straightback

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My SINGULAR point here is that there is a 4th variable, which is the angle at which the cue ball is struck on the horizontal axis. You cannoy say that, all things being equal, all hits on a CB at the same spot are the same. You have backhand english and parallel english and so on.
 
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Patrick Johnson

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My SINGULAR point here is that there is a 4th variable, which is the angle at which the cue ball is struck on the horizontal axis. You cannoy say that, all things being equal, all hits on a CB at the same spot are the same. You have backhand english and parallel english and so on.
All hits on a CB at the same spot that make the CB hit the same target are the same - they have the same spot and angle (and probably speed) or they won't make the shot. The test I described a few posts back shows it.

Backhand and parallel English are just different methods to get to the same cue angle to compensate for squirt (don't let the misnomer "parallel" fool you) - if they didn't get to the same cue angle the shot wouldn't go.

The general principle is that there's only one spot-angle-speed that will give the CB the same spin-direction-speed.

pj
chgo
 
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Patrick Johnson

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This is why "swipe" or "drag" is not possible, unless the CB were trapped between cue tip and cushion, which would be illegal (and pretty useless:D).
It's pretty useful for the old CB/OB Frozen Perpendicular to the Rail Push Stroke Spinning the OB Sideways Into the Nearby Corner Pocket shot. Which I think might be a felony. :)

pj
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petie

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1-2 milliseconds (thousandths of a second), depending on tip offset from center, hardness and stroke speed.

There's pretty much nothing you can do with your stroke to change the contact time, because the soft flesh of the grip hand gives on impact, "decoupling" your hand/arm from the cue during the contact time. This means, for instance, that "accelerating through the ball" doesn't do anything to the ball (though it might help keep your stroke straight and give better speed control).

pj
chgo
With some well delivered strokes the cue is in free flight at the time of contact.
 

gulfportdoc

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It's pretty useful for the old CB/OB Frozen Perpendicular to the Rail Push Stroke Spinning the OB Sideways Into the Nearby Corner Pocket shot. Which I think might be a felony. :)

pj
chgo
Ha! One of the first trick shots I ever saw: Nick's Pool Room and Hat Cleaning Shop, Dormont, PA, 1959.:eek:

~Doc
 

Cary

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To conclude, I use differing strokes and grips because they allow me to get to the proper angle, speed and spin. In this way, they are correlated with the results I want, but they do not CAUSE them.

Next time I'm in court I'll try that defense.

"Well sure your Honor I rested the gun on a solid rest, took v-e-r-r-r-r-y careful aim, and gently pulled the trigger straight back. But that's not what killed him, it was the bullet what killed him." :rolleyes::D

Sorry SB, just saw this and I couldn't help myself.
 

straightback

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Next time I'm in court I'll try that defense.

"Well sure your Honor I rested the gun on a solid rest, took v-e-r-r-r-r-y careful aim, and gently pulled the trigger straight back. But that's not what killed him, it was the bullet what killed him." :rolleyes::D

Sorry SB, just saw this and I couldn't help myself.
Well, I AM a lawyer and all, Cary!

Nonetheless, if one bothers to think about it for a minute, I think my observation is spot-on.
 

backplaying

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1-2 milliseconds (thousandths of a second), depending on tip offset from center, hardness and stroke speed.

There's pretty much nothing you can do with your stroke to change the contact time, because the soft flesh of the grip hand gives on impact, "decoupling" your hand/arm from the cue during the contact time. This means, for instance, that "accelerating through the ball" doesn't do anything to the ball (though it might help keep your stroke straight and give better speed control).

pj
chgo
What about jacking up and masse the ball? Does the tip stay on the ball longer?
 

petie

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Why is it that Efren's millisecond does so much more than my millisecond?
 

mr3cushion

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Why is it that Efren's millisecond does so much more than my millisecond?
Petie; I can only assume, when Efren's tip contacts the CB, his tempo, timing and speed are ALL perfectly in sync at that millisecond, is better than yours and MOST players!
 

straightback

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Why is it that Efren's millisecond does so much more than my millisecond?
He uses a 21 oz cue. Plus, if you're talking about English, he cuts across the ball a lot and spins the devil out of it. Everybody can do it, but his skill really lies in applying the exact amount he needs to get the angle and travel he needs.

That, and he uses inside English three times as good as any player in the history of this illustrious game.
 

Patrick Johnson

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1-2 milliseconds (thousandths of a second), depending on tip offset from center, hardness and stroke speed.

There's pretty much nothing you can do with your stroke to change the contact time, because the soft flesh of the grip hand gives on impact, "decoupling" your hand/arm from the cue during the contact time. This means, for instance, that "accelerating through the ball" doesn't do anything to the ball (though it might help keep your stroke straight and give better speed control).

pj
chgo
backplaying:
What about jacking up and masse the ball? Does the tip stay on the ball longer?
Maybe, but if so it's caused by the obstruction, not by your stroke.

pj
chgo
 

petie

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For those who think a millisecond is not enough time to matter, I would like to pose the case of the double rifle. Double rifles, not double barrel shotguns, have been used for centuries to hunt dangerous game such as Cape Buffalo, Elephant, Lion, etc. The theory is that you have at least 2 sure shots without the need to cycle an action for the second shot with the obvious extra time and risk of a round hanging up in the action. Well, these double rifles go through a tedious process call registering whereby the two barrels are tuned to the cartridge and load that will be fired in them. They must be registered for a single load because the recoil will make the bullet go off the target if it is not registered. How long is the bullet in the barrel? You do the math.
 

NH Steve

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For those who think a millisecond is not enough time to matter, I would like to pose the case of the double rifle. Double rifles, not double barrel shotguns, have been used for centuries to hunt dangerous game such as Cape Buffalo, Elephant, Lion, etc. The theory is that you have at least 2 sure shots without the need to cycle an action for the second shot with the obvious extra time and risk of a round hanging up in the action. Well, these double rifles go through a tedious process call registering whereby the two barrels are tuned to the cartridge and load that will be fired in them. They must be registered for a single load because the recoil will make the bullet go off the target if it is not registered. How long is the bullet in the barrel? You do the math.
I agree -- everything is relative, and the significance of cue tip contact variables on an object ball is definitely not an exception to that rule lol.
 
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