S. Daulton vs. R. Saez 2012 D.C.C.

wincardona

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Billy, thanks very much for the rare, positive affirmation of one of my shot choices..:)...but unfortunately I can only give your post an E for effort...:sorry ------>






- Gh:)st

Originally Posted by wincardona
I agree with John, about liking your shot <------ You were doing great! at this point......

but then you blew it...... ----->



you also have a perfect <----- with the side pocket looming, not perfect, as Doc and Freddy have already pointed out ( If you notice how the 6 ball is positioned in relation to the side pocket then you and your mentor the Beard should agree that it is laying perfectly to execute the option of banking it cross table between the 5 and 9 balls. Plus it doesn't mean anything to me if Freddie, Doc, Harry, Dennis, or anyone for that matter disagree with a shot choice of mine after I set it up a number of times and have success with it) cross on the 6 ball sending the 6 between the 5 and 9 balls, that is if you want to play safe. <------ Ridiculous to think you would need to point this shot out to me....since, #1. I already saw this option about 1 nano-second after first looking at the layout....and realized that with that side pocket in the way, necessitating a perfect hit with no margin for error - it's not as good or lying as natural as my safety shot.....and #2. Blatant redundacy was commited - your safety was already mentioned and discussed by several others, earlier in the thread.
( I was the 2nd. person that posted in the thread, look at post #2 and you will clearly read what I said about that option, so the option wasn't mentioned earlier in the thread, right? I described the position to whoever might be interested and I assume you are by your usual rebuttal with many of my shot choices. Also your judgement on many of the shots we have been in discussion about seemed to be clouded as it is again with how the 6 ball is laying to execute the simple safety.)


I posted in post #59 that I liked your choice but I also like crossing the 6 ball if you're going to play safe, whats wrong with what I said? You took it as a back handed compliment as usual, sad. But the best shot without question is the two rail bank with the 6 ball, which you don't agree with or understand why. That's just one of the many reasons when we play why your not even going to come close to winning, in spite of all my wrong choices.:sorry:D

Dr. Bill
l
 
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gulfportdoc

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Ya know... the more I look at that 6 ball lie in relation to the cue ball, I'm thinking that the safety with the CB going down and back up to the head rail is not that great of a shot. Now it might present differently live at the table. But it looks to me as though the 6 has to be hit fuller than you'd want in order to get whitey back up to the head rail, which might cause the 6 to bank two rails (long, long) back to the center of the table.

Therefore the best safety is probably thin off the 9 (as Ghost has suggested), making sure to cut the 9 into the 2 ball, so that it won't bank out and leave a makeable straight-back. As Luke suggested, CB speed is paramount to try to get the CB frozen up on the head rail.

Although the 2-railer on the 6 may be a specialty of Cardone's, it's a very iffy choice. Even the world's greatest living banks shooter has said he'd only shoot that shot in a ring game.:)

Doc
 

One Pocket Ghost

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I posted in post #59 that I liked your choice but You took it as a back handed compliment as usual.

Dr. Bill

No I didn't - I know you meant it......and unfortunately, it's sure as hell not the first time on here that somebody didn't realize it when I was only kidding..:frus................and after all, how could you not have meant it, since it is the best choice in that spot...:heh

- Gh:)st
 
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wincardona

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Ya know... the more I look at that 6 ball lie in relation to the cue ball, I'm thinking that the safety with the CB going down and back up to the head rail is not that great of a shot. Now it might present differently live at the table. But it looks to me as though the 6 has to be hit fuller than you'd want in order to get whitey back up to the head rail, which might cause the 6 to bank two rails (long, long) back to the center of the table. ( Doc, the 6 ball is laying perfectly to play the shot exactly the way I described it. (the safety) The shot is executed by cutting the 6 ball thinly with 1/2 tip of right english, the thinness of the hit enables the cue ball to run effortlessly to the end rail and then back up table to the top rail, and the 6 ball ends up on the opposite side of the table between the 5 and 9 balls. The 1/2 tip of right english sends the cue ball off the back rail at the angle to safely end up near the center diamond on the top rail. Using this method there isn't any possibility of scratching anywhere, plus the speed of the shot is easily felt. I shot this shot 1/2 dozen times with great results.)

Therefore the best safety is probably thin off the 9 (as Ghost has suggested), making sure to cut the 9 into the 2 ball, so that it won't bank out and leave a makeable straight-back. As Luke suggested, CB speed is paramount to try to get the CB frozen up on the head rail.

Although the 2-railer on the 6 may be a specialty of Cardone's, it's a very iffy choice. Even the world's greatest living banks shooter has said he'd only shoot that shot in a ring game.:) ( The two rail bank shot is not a hard shot to execute and it carries a very high safety percentage along with it. A decent make percentage shooting the shot for a mediocre player is around 15 to 20%, and for a fairly good player around 20 to 25%. Not bad for a relatively free shot. And your statement about Brumback saying that he would only bank the shot in a ring game is understandable. Brumback is a bank pool player who very seldom will shoot this type of a shot, this shot is much more familiar to one pocket players who shoot them often.)

/SIZE]


Doc, maybe you can improve my game a ball, between you and the Ghost I seem to not know anything about playing the right shots. Even after I set them up and have success.:frus Maybe I should write a book..."Shots that don't go but do"

Dr. Bill
 
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wincardona

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No I didn't - I know you meant it......and unfortunately, it's sure as hell not the first time on here that somebody didn't realize it when I was only kidding..:frus................and after all, how could you not have meant it, since it is the best choice in that spot...:heh

- Gh:)st
Ghosty, I didn't agree with your choice because I didn't like it, I happened to think it was a good option in a situation where there were many good options. You say you were only kidding with me when you rebutted my safety choice on the 6 ball by breaking it down by using what you thought to be low percentage decisions with the shot. This is a typical situation that comes up playing bank pool and one pocket. One where there are many viable options available, but the discreetness of the value is hidden for choosing the right option, because of the many options that are available. Believe it or not, this is the difference as subtle as it appears as one of the big reasons why certain players win and others just manage to lose. Choosing the best option when there are many good options available.

Dr. Bill
 
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gulfportdoc

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Doc, maybe you can improve my game a ball, between you and the Ghost I seem to not know anything about playing the right shots. Even after I set them up and have success.:frus Maybe I should write a book..."Shots that don't go but do"Dr. Bill
Now that's pretty funny.:D But I'll give you the opportunity to demonstrate that favorite 6 ball 2-railer for me in Tunica. The only way that shot is good is if you make it, or leave it in the jaws. Otherwise there's a good chance of leaving a makeable free return bank with the 6.

For coffee and doughnuts, you can have one shot at it to either make it or leave it safe (just as in a real game). You've got the nuts, because I don't even eat doughnuts.;) Keep in mind though, you're already 0 for 2 with me on these prop shot bets.

Doc
 

wincardona

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Now that's pretty funny.:D But I'll give you the opportunity to demonstrate that favorite 6 ball 2-railer for me in Tunica. The only way that shot is good is if you make it, or leave it in the jaws. Otherwise there's a good chance of leaving a makeable free return bank with the 6.

For coffee and doughnuts, you can have one shot at it to either make it or leave it safe (just as in a real game). You've got the nuts, because I don't even eat doughnuts.;) Keep in mind though, you're already 0 for 2 with me on these prop shot bets. ( Are you sure that when you're twisting others heads you didn't somehow twist your own?)
Doc
When I say that a certain shot is the right shot it's usually based off of what I think the percentages are for the shooter that's shooting the shot. Yes for me the two railer is the right shot because I can execute the shot fairly consistently. Also when I say it's not that tough of a shot what i'm actually trying to say is that the shot isn't hard to develop a feel for hitting it, and if you know the shot then you'll have to agree with my statement. For those who don't understand the shot well enough to put into their arsenal of shots all I can say to them is that their only hurting themselves.

It's possible that I could be thinking on a higher level when it comes to options that require better execution, but all I can do is put information out there and if it fits you then that's great, if not then you've lost nothing.

I've been playing the best players consistently for over 50 years of my 68 years of existence, and have done quite well competing against them. Yes I still today look to play the champions, and in the last two months I have played 5 of them and have done well. When i'm in Tunica i'll again be looking to play whoever wants to play, and it's not my fire power that they respect, it's my discretion at the table that impresses them the most. If you feel that this is hard to believe, just ask any of the champions that I have played what they respect most about my game. I talk that talk and walk that walk, that's the way I roll.

Dr. Bill
 

gulfportdoc

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I see that I beat Col. Bille to the post. I went over to his house today to practice. Right out of the chute we get to talking about this layout. We both agreed the 6 ball was not the right shot. Then we set it up like it is on the picture, I shoot it, and make it at the first attempt!:D We fell down laughing!!!

But I still maintain that it's not the right shot because when it's missed, which will be the vast majority of the time, it has a good chance of selling out a return makeable bank. Anyway, I thought that was pretty damn funny.

Incidentally I shot the safety off the 9 ball into the 2 ball, and the CB came around perfectly safe with no return shot. I forgot to try the 6 ball safety.

Doc
 

wincardona

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I see that I beat Col. Bille to the post. I went over to his house today to practice. Right out of the chute we get to talking about this layout. We both agreed the 6 ball was not the right shot. Then we set it up like it is on the picture, I shoot it, and make it at the first attempt!:D We fell down laughing!!!

But I still maintain that it's not the right shot because when it's missed, which will be the vast majority of the time, it has a good chance of selling out a return makeable bank. Anyway, I thought that was pretty damn funny.

Incidentally I shot the safety off the 9 ball into the 2 ball, and the CB came around perfectly safe with no return shot. I forgot to try the 6 ball safety.

Doc
If you think that's funny how about this, I set up the two rail shot on the 6 ball today also, I shot it twice and made it both times:lol I then quit shooting it laughing about how lucky, or good I am.:D Too bad you didn't shoot the 6 ball safety you would of died laughing.;)

Dr. Bill
 

gulfportdoc

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If you think that's funny how about this, I set up the two rail shot on the 6 ball today also, I shot it twice and made it both times:lol I then quit shooting it laughing about how lucky, or good I am.:D Too bad you didn't shoot the 6 ball safety you would of died laughing.;)Dr. Bill
Set the 6 ball shot up, and then intentionally miss it (if you can force yourself). You ain't gonna like the leave...;)

Doc
 

wincardona

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Set the 6 ball shot up, and then intentionally miss it (if you can force yourself). You ain't gonna like the leave...;)

Doc
Forget it, you're not going to get me out of stroke wanting me to start missing balls.:sorry

Dr. Bill
 

backplaying

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I'm banking the 6 back with bottom left and playing more cue ball control to leave it on the end rail.
 
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