Rules question on balls that are legal to shoot at

Slow roller

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Was playing a game of one hole today, and my opponent tells me that a ball whose base is on the head string cannot be shot at with ball in hand in the kitchen. He told me that the entire ball needs to be out of the kitchen for it to be a legal ball to be shot at. I've searched the rules here on OnePocket.org, and can't seem to locate that specific rule. If memory serves, in games like straight pool and other games where shooting from the kitchen with ball in hand is the rule, those balls on the head string are legal.

I've heard that some tournaments require a legal object ball to be entirely outside the kitchen.

What's the scoop?

Thanks,

Slow Roller
 

CaliRed

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There may be this rule and that rule, depending on various organizations, but really, I think that rule is something that really depends on the house or the people playing.

Any time you play someone new, you should probably just go over some of the rules that vary from place to place. Something you probably don't have to do playing cheap, hash them out as you go, if you think your playing someone that isn't on their last dime or a psycho.:eek:

I'm pretty easy... When it comes up, I just say "I play it this way" and if he says he feels it should be played differently, I usually say "Ok", that's what we'll do from now on. As long as it isn't messing with the core rules.

I play it, so it has to be all the over over the headstring, but hey, that's just me:D
 

Skin

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CaliRed said:
There may be this rule and that rule, depending on various organizations, but really, I think that rule is something that really depends on the house or the people playing.

Any time you play someone new, you should probably just go over some of the rules that vary from place to place. Something you probably don't have to do playing cheap, hash them out as you go, if you think your playing someone that isn't on their last dime or a psycho.:eek:

I'm pretty easy... When it comes up, I just say "I play it this way" and if he says he feels it should be played differently, I usually say "Ok", that's what we'll do from now on. As long as it isn't messing with the core rules.

I play it, so it has to be all the over over the headstring, but hey, that's just me:D
Good answer, Red. It's better to go over that rule before you play in order to head off a misunderstanding. I like to keep it simple, too. The entire ob has to be over the line and the entire cb has to be behind the line, but if the other guy wants to play a different rule, no big deal.

Skin
 

blackeee

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Skin said:
Good answer, Red. It's better to go over that rule before you play in order to head off a misunderstanding. I like to keep it simple, too. The entire ob has to be over the line and the entire cb has to be behind the line, but if the other guy wants to play a different rule, no big deal.

Skin

We had this discussion a couple of weeks ago when it came up in a game I was playing. The ball was right on the line and the opinion several gave was that if the base of the ball is ON the line, it is considerd out of the kitchen.

I agree that that should be discussed before the game starts to avoid any arguments.
 

gulfportdoc

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I believe that "on the line" ought to be considered in the Kitchen. For example, it's common to place the cueball on the line for breaking purposes. If on the line were not in the Kitchen, then that would be a foul.

I like to play "base of the ball" for one-pocket. However, at the DCC they play "face of the ball".

Doc
 

Slow roller

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A pro friend told me basically the same thing, about the face of the ball being used in tournaments, and so on, as it eliminates a lot of arguments as to where the base of the ball actually is.

While I prefer the base of the ball on the head string to be playable, my opponent (just as I was getting ready to pot one of those suckers, natch!) said it couldn't be shot, as part of the ball was on the line. Details, details...

When I said that in Chicago that ball is playable, he said well, you're in *blank* and we don't play it that way here. Oh well...

Appeals to the "World Standardized Rules" did no good. So, I just agreed to play it the way they play it locally.

A word to the wise: Check this out before playing as it will eliminate disagreements.

Slow Roller

gulfportdoc said:
I believe that "on the line" ought to be considered in the Kitchen. For example, it's common to place the cueball on the line for breaking purposes. If on the line were not in the Kitchen, then that would be a foul.

I like to play "base of the ball" for one-pocket. However, at the DCC they play "face of the ball".

Doc
 

countryboy54_44

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Rules question on balls that are legal to shoot at

Here in the Philippines they play if the bottom of the ball or cue ball is behind the line the ball is a legal shot. In America we usually play that the entire ball has to be over the line to be a legal shot and the entire cue ball has to be behind the line. I agree, to avoid arguments it is best to discuss this before the game starts.
countryboy54_44
 

CaliRed

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countryboy54_44 said:
Here in the Philippines they play if the bottom of the ball or cue ball is behind the line the ball is a legal shot. In America we usually play that the entire ball has to be over the line to be a legal shot and the entire cue ball has to be behind the line. I agree, to avoid arguments it is best to discuss this before the game starts.
countryboy54_44
Welcome to the forum, countryboy. I'm a countryboy too, but just cuz I grew up in the country for the 1st 20 years of my life. Wish someday to live in the country again, but close enough to town to play pool and get drunk in a bar:)
 

Patrick Johnson

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Slow roller said:
... part of the ball was on the line. ...

... I said that in Chicago that ball is playable, he said well, you're in *blank* and we don't play it that way here. ...

Appeals to the "World Standardized Rules" did no good. So, I just agreed to play it the way they play it locally.
The World Standardized Rules agree with you, alright - too bad they're not more well known. I don't mind playing by local rules, but they tend to move around during play.

3.10 CUE BALL IN HAND BEHIND THE HEAD STRING
... The shooting player may shoot at any object ball as long as the base of the object ball is on or below the head string. He may not shoot at any ball, the base of which is above the head string


"Below" obviously means toward the foot end of the table.

pj
chgo
 

Skin

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Patrick Johnson said:
The World Standardized Rules agree with you, alright - too bad they're not more well known. I don't mind playing by local rules, but they tend to move around during play.

3.10 CUE BALL IN HAND BEHIND THE HEAD STRING
... The shooting player may shoot at any object ball as long as the base of the object ball is on or below the head string. He may not shoot at any ball, the base of which is above the head string


"Below" obviously means toward the foot end of the table.

pj
chgo
This World Standarized Rule is easy to follow provided a headstring line is drawn on the cloth for reference. I never encounter a headstring line though (or that wonderful perpendicular line from the center of the foot spot through the base of the triangle outline for that matter...or even the triangle outline!). So, I think it's easier to play "entire ob over and entire cb behind" because you can use the stick to determine that. Just my 2 centavos.



Skin
 
Last edited:

gulfportdoc

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I checked with both the WPA and the BCA rules, and I'm mistaken about the head string being a part of the Kitchen. The Kitchen consists of the area behind (not including) the head string line. So if the base of a ball sits directly on the head string, it's playable with ball in hand from the Kitchen.

Funny-- I've been breaking with the cueball on the head spot for years in 9 & 10 ball, and no one has ever called me on it! Perhaps that's why my 9 ball game slipped so badly: it's Karma!:eek:

Doc
still prefers base of the ball,
not face of the ball
 

SactownTom

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Base of the Ball on the head string or further out is considered a legal ball to hit.
Except when gambling. When two players are matching up, it is much easier to determine if the WHOLE Ball is beyond the head string. Well it is easier for some players anyway.

also... Welcome to the forum countryboy54-44
 

blackeee

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Skin said:
This World Standarized Rule is easy to follow provided a headstring line is drawn on the cloth for reference. I never encounter a headstring line though (or that wonderful perpendicular line from the center of the foot spot through the base of the triangle outline for that matter...or even the triangle outline!). So, I think it's easier to play "entire ob over and entire cb behind" because you can use the stick to determine that. Just my 2 centavos.



Skin

Depends on which end of the stick you use; would it not?
 

Greyghost

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hummm thats brings a question to mind? weird tho lol

hummm thats brings a question to mind? weird tho lol

SKIN, I got all the lines your heart desires on my home table then lol (corner to cross corner/ head string / foot string/ Rack / Snooker & Golf D in kitchen/break line)....playing with the entire OB must be past the line rule will definately keep arguments and such at bay for sure, tho I generally play by the base of ball.

Especially if your playing someone not keen to every nit picking rule, or not very familiar with one pocket it would be alot less BS to put up with by playing that the OB has to be past the line completely.

Now that I think about it, say for instance the opponent just scratched and two or more balls are now on the spot and the rest left on the table are in the kitchen. If you wanted to could you just put the CB close to the line then shoot to the Long rail just past the kitchen line with some spin to bring the CB back into the kitchen to contact a ball?

I've never done that in one hole, but have done it in 8 ball many times on the BB.

Whats the ruling on that? Do you have to hit a OB past the kitchen first or does the CB just have to leave the kitchen first and foremost and can then hit whatever ball no matter where on the table it lies?

It should be the latter IMOP

-Grey Ghost
 
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androd

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Greyghost said:
SKIN, I got all the lines your heart desires on my home table then lol (corner to cross corner/ head string / foot string/ Rack / Snooker & Golf D in kitchen/break line)....playing with the entire OB must be past the line rule will definately keep arguments and such at bay for sure, tho I generally play by the base of ball.

Especially if your playing someone not keen to every nit picking rule, or not very familiar with one pocket it would be alot less BS to put up with by playing that the OB has to be past the line completely.

Now that I think about it, say for instance the opponent just scratched and two or more balls are now on the spot and the rest left on the table are in the kitchen. If you wanted to could you just put the CB close to the line then shoot to the Long rail just past the kitchen line with some spin to bring the CB back into the kitchen to contact a ball?

I've never done that in one hole, but have done it in 8 ball many times on the BB.

Whats the ruling on that? Do you have to hit a OB past the kitchen first or does the CB just have to leave the kitchen first and foremost and can then hit whatever ball no matter where on the table it lies?

It should be the latter IMOP

-Grey Ghost
I've seen it done and nothing was said. Unless no rail after contact.
Rod.
PS, I've no idea what is the rule, but they're a lot of rules guys on here. :)
 

Greyghost

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androd said:
I've seen it done and nothing was said. Unless no rail after contact.
Rod.
PS, I've no idea what is the rule, but they're a lot of rules guys on here. :)

see i've never encountered a situation such as it in actual play. some things are just so rare.

for instance i didn't learn something very valid untill about 6 years ago.

I was playing the ghost in the palace in tulsa and the manager John lepartice came over to chat (very knowledgeable person on the game VERY, and the best handicapper i've ever seen) well i had just broke and continued to pocket the one ball as he approached.

The CB was around the break box in the kitchen and the 2 ball was down table hanging on the pocket ledge. I talked for a few minutes and then i dropped down and as soon as i hit the CB the OB fell in the hole, CB scratched b/h it never touching it.

I looked at him like a deer stuck in the headlights and asked him what the ruling was on that particular snafu moment.

Never seen it happen before or since and I been shooting since I was a little kid.

Its the little details like that, which can be your savior during a big battle.

So Freddy, Grady, SJDick one of you old farts are up for a technical ruling lol just kidding....you gotta earn being an old fart...i'm pretty sure you all have the hands on knowledge ready and loaded to enlighten a coonass.:p
 

SactownTom

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Two ball spots up in the same or close to the same position. Cue ball goes back to as close as agreeably possible and player shoots over.

This is a combination of rules. The Object ball dropping into a pocket after it has come to rest, will get replaced as possible. Because it dropped while you were shooting, it becomes a non-shot and repayable.


Greyghost said:
see i've never encountered a situation such as it in actual play. some things are just so rare.

for instance i didn't learn something very valid untill about 6 years ago.

I was playing the ghost in the palace in tulsa and the manager John lepartice came over to chat (very knowledgeable person on the game VERY, and the best handicapper i've ever seen) well i had just broke and continued to pocket the one ball as he approached.

The CB was around the break box in the kitchen and the 2 ball was down table hanging on the pocket ledge. I talked for a few minutes and then i dropped down and as soon as i hit the CB the OB fell in the hole, CB scratched b/h it never touching it.

I looked at him like a deer stuck in the headlights and asked him what the ruling was on that particular snafu moment.

Never seen it happen before or since and I been shooting since I was a little kid.

Its the little details like that, which can be your savior during a big battle.

So Freddy, Grady, SJDick one of you old farts are up for a technical ruling lol just kidding....you gotta earn being an old fart...i'm pretty sure you all have the hands on knowledge ready and loaded to enlighten a coonass.:p
 

Greyghost

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SactownTom said:
Two ball spots up in the same or close to the same position. Cue ball goes back to as close as agreeably possible and player shoots over.

This is a combination of rules. The Object ball dropping into a pocket after it has come to rest, will get replaced as possible. Because it dropped while you were shooting, it becomes a non-shot and repayable.

you basically just repeated what i said....i wasn't looking for the ruling on balls falling from the playing surphase....i know that ruling my last post explained it:confused: tho thanks for trying to be helpful :D

my question was in regards to one pocket and having to shoot balls outside of the kitchen with BIH....so long as the CB crosses the kitchen line completely is it ok for the CB to make first contact with OB that is in the kitchen without penalty?
 

gulfportdoc

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Greyghost said:
my question was in regards to one pocket and having to shoot balls outside of the kitchen with BIH....so long as the CB crosses the kitchen line completely is it ok for the CB to make first contact with OB that is in the kitchen without penalty?
Yes, as long as something then hits a rail after contact. For example: ~Doc
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@2AHej4BCIC3CUEA3DSKM3EBJl4FBil3GFdC3HWYq3ILGw1PMsf2UHej1UGrn1UJlM1kMsf2kaiF2kIcb1kSFS1uAxT@[/CUETABLE]
 
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