Rule question...

Jontravistaylor

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I owe 1ball...I have a ball hanging in my pocket, my opponent shoots a ball into his hole and attempts to draw the cue ball into my hanging ball, while committing the stroke he inadvertently hits the hanging ball with his cue stick pocketing my ball....the cue scratches in my hole...

My contention is it is a foul he's spots 2 balls and my ball is replaced where it lay, my shot ball in hand in the kitchen.

He says all 3 balls spot...his scratch penalty, the ball he made, and my ball because I owe one...(along with some minor crumbling about not scratching had he not hit my ball with his stick :)
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I owe 1ball...I have a ball hanging in my pocket, my opponent shoots a ball into his hole and attempts to draw the cue ball into my hanging ball, while committing the stroke he inadvertently hits the hanging ball with his cue stick pocketing my ball....the cue scratches in my hole...

My contention is it is a foul he's spots 2 balls and my ball is replaced where it lay, my shot ball in hand in the kitchen.

He says all 3 balls spot...his scratch penalty, the ball he made, and my ball because I owe one...(along with some minor crumbling about not scratching had he not hit my ball with his stick :)
Your contention is correct.

Dennis
 

NH Steve

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I owe 1ball...I have a ball hanging in my pocket, my opponent shoots a ball into his hole and attempts to draw the cue ball into my hanging ball, while committing the stroke he inadvertently hits the hanging ball with his cue stick pocketing my ball....the cue scratches in my hole...

My contention is it is a foul he's spots 2 balls and my ball is replaced where it lay, my shot ball in hand in the kitchen.

He says all 3 balls spot...his scratch penalty, the ball he made, and my ball because I owe one...(along with some minor crumbling about not scratching had he not hit my ball with his stick :)
Damn, that could take a little to sort out. I believe we have determined that a ball inadvertently bumped into a pocket (the kind of thing that would be a foul if we were playing all ball fouls), is either replaced or left where it lies at the non-shooting player's option, so I would think you could either just accept that ball as it lies, in your pocket :) or replace it where it started. I don't see why it would need to spot (edit -- because you owe one from earlier -- so if you decided to leave the ball in your pocket, it would spot.)

Anyway, that would be my ruling -- others might disagree.

PS I think the newer general rules now call for replacing bumped balls always, rather than at the opponent's choice...
 

Cornerman

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My contention is it is a foul he's spots 2 balls and my ball is replaced where it lay, my shot ball in hand in the kitchen.
I'd go with this one.

He says all 3 balls spot...his scratch penalty, the ball he made, and my ball because I owe one...(along with some minor crumbling about not scratching had he not hit my ball with his stick :)
Hmmm.... I think your ball that fell into the pocket is supposed to be replaced as close as possible to where you guys think it was before it was touched. You wouldn't get credit and you still owe one, I believe.

Freddie <~~~ unfortunately guilty of all kinds of object ball fouls
 

Scrzbill

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It's complicated because the cue ball went into your hole. Would the cue ball have fallen with the object ball? Its a foul no matter what because the cue ball would have hit the object ball. I can see it both ways. I rule the object ball is replaced to the original spot, foul, and spot two balls. :frus
 

tylerdurden

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I have often wondered, is there some specific reason why a player can't "decline" a foul in one pocket. I mean, a reason other than "that is just the way it is". Logically thinking, it seems the non-fouling player should get every benefit imo.
 

Dudley

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I have often wondered, is there some specific reason why a player can't "decline" a foul in one pocket. I mean, a reason other than "that is just the way it is". Logically thinking, it seems the non-fouling player should get every benefit imo.
This would open up pandora's box... lol

Interesting thought though,

Dud
 

petie

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I have often wondered, is there some specific reason why a player can't "decline" a foul in one pocket. I mean, a reason other than "that is just the way it is". Logically thinking, it seems the non-fouling player should get every benefit imo.
I think this is the reason some play the rule that you cannot declare a foul on yourself.
 

petie

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New subject...Let's just say the cue ball had not fallen but styed up and occupied the spot the object ball had occupied before your opponent knocked it in with his stick. Then what?
 

NH Steve

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New subject...Let's just say the cue ball had not fallen but styed up and occupied the spot the object ball had occupied before your opponent knocked it in with his stick. Then what?
I'll bite :D

It would still be a foul, since the ball that was bumped by the shooter did interfere with the cue ball route by its absence. The ball the shooter made would still spot and a penalty ball would still spot as well. I would rule that the ball that was pocketed in the opponent's hole would have to stay there and count for the opponent, and it would now be their shot from there.
 

gulfportdoc

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I agree. In the original scenario, the shooter would spot two balls, and the opponent would get to keep the ball in his hole, and receive BIH in the Kitchen. However the ball that the opponent had previously owed would not be spotted until after he took his turn.

In Petie's scenario, the fouler would still owe two balls because he committed a foul after pocketing a ball. However the CB would play from where it laid. The opponent would spot his previously owed ball after his turn.

An interesting further complication would be if the CB stayed up, but became corner hooked.:eek: Unfortunately that's just the rolls of the game, even if the opponent suffered for it...

Doc
 

androd

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I agree. In the original scenario, the shooter would spot two balls, and the opponent would get to keep the ball in his hole, and receive BIH in the Kitchen. However the ball that the opponent had previously owed would not be spotted until after he took his turn.

In Petie's scenario, the fouler would still owe two balls because he committed a foul after pocketing a ball. However the CB would play from where it laid. The opponent would spot his previously owed ball after his turn.

An interesting further complication would be if the CB stayed up, but became corner hooked.:eek: Unfortunately that's just the rolls of the game, even if the opponent suffered for it...

Doc
Doc, just curious.
Why would you wait to spot the ball ? it was made last inning and not slept.
Don't understand most new rules.
Rod.
P.S. Guy owes one, you make it for him it gets spotted after you finish your inning. Yes/No Maybe.
 

petie

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Doc, just curious.
Why would you wait to spot the ball ? it was made last inning and not slept.
Don't understand most new rules.
Rod.
P.S. Guy owes one, you make it for him it gets spotted after you finish your inning. Yes/No Maybe.
Forgive me for sounding anal retentive however appropriate the description may be or not but the ball made on a foul cannot be counted as pocketed ball just as in the ubiquitous follow-the-ball-in-the-pocket shot.
 

NH Steve

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Doc, just curious.
Why would you wait to spot the ball ? it was made last inning and not slept.
Don't understand most new rules.
Rod.
P.S. Guy owes one, you make it for him it gets spotted after you finish your inning. Yes/No Maybe.
Yes, I am with you -- I don't think you wold need to wait.
 

androd

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Forgive me for sounding anal retentive however appropriate the description may be or not but the ball made on a foul cannot be counted as pocketed ball just as in the ubiquitous follow-the-ball-in-the-pocket shot.
Well I was covering both scenarios, but if it doesn't count why spot it at all?
Rod.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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There is no scenario where the accidently pocketed ball stays down and counts for the non-shooter.

First of all, it was not made with the cueball or an object ball.

Secondly, if it stays down (like some say) it still comes up on the spot because the cueball scratched in a pocket. All balls made on a cueball scratch in a pocket spot up on the footspot.

Thirdly, if it stays down and it happened to be game ball then you are saying the game is over even though the cueball is in a pocket.

In any scenario the ball is replaced in the jaws of the pocket and the non-shooter can now shoot.

Dennis
 

jtompilot

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There is no scenario where the accidently pocketed ball stays down and counts for the non-shooter.

First of all, it was not made with the cueball or an object ball.

Secondly, if it stays down (like some say) it still comes up on the spot because the cueball scratched in a pocket. All balls made on a cueball scratch in a pocket spot up on the footspot.

Thirdly, if it stays down and it happened to be game ball then you are saying the game is over even though the cueball is in a pocket.

In any scenario the ball is replaced in the jaws of the pocket and the non-shooter can now shoot.

Dennis
Petie was saying, what would happen if the q ball didn't fall in but stopped where the knocked in ball was. It would still be a foul because the knocked in ball would have interfered with the q ball. But now there isn't an open spot to replace the pocketed ball because the q ball is there.
 

tylerdurden

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This would open up pandora's box... lol

Interesting thought though,

Dud
Well, if I want to discuss it maybe I should make a new thread, but it doesn't seem that way to me. It seems the game would get a lot simpler and there would be a lot less weird shots and disagreements.

If you take golf and Lee Trevino puts his second shot on a par four 3 feet from the cup with a 2 shot lead on the 18th hole, it's over, and well should be. Sometimes I wonder why in one pocket if you have 7 balls and hang a ball in your hole it isn't over as well, or very tenuous for the shooter anyway. Many many decisions would be no brainers if you could decline.
 
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