Rule question from the Derby City Classic

Artie Bodendorfer

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gulfportdoc said:
It certainly does, Tom. I also quoted the rule in post #10: However, if the non-shooting player disturbs the balls, or breaks down their stick, or in the judgment of the acting official otherwise significantly disturbs the shooter in the assumption that the shooter is already out, such acts are considered a concession, and the shooter is considered to have won, regardless of whether a subsequent count reveals that more balls are needed.

After his last shot, Roy moved his scoring bead above the light. John then came over, checked the ball tray, and went back and sat down, allowing Roy to rack. If that's not a concession, I don't know what is. What does John have to do? Go out and get a notarized statement that he has conceded the game?:D

Doc
WE no the rules now so what now. And the rule is not clear and can be diputed two was. And both sides have a argument and can be wright. So change the rule or play by what it is. A bad rule. Its the choice of the people who make the rules change it or live with it. And everything stays the same. And the rule is not a good rule. The rule has to meny loop holes in it and if you cant see it needs to change. Then live by it. Its only a pool rule and who cares that its not a ood rule. WE will play by what it is weather its good or bad. And please whatever you do dont change it and make it better.
 

SactownTom

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I'm sorry Doc,
I was under the impression that Roy moved the balls on the table prior to John B checking the ball return tray.
My bad.
And, by the way, I was quoting rule 10.2 not 10.1 you quoted in post #10

gulfportdoc said:
It certainly does, Tom. I also quoted the rule in post #10: However, if the non-shooting player disturbs the balls, or breaks down their stick, or in the judgment of the acting official otherwise significantly disturbs the shooter in the assumption that the shooter is already out, such acts are considered a concession, and the shooter is considered to have won, regardless of whether a subsequent count reveals that more balls are needed.

After his last shot, Roy moved his scoring bead above the light. John then came over, checked the ball tray, and went back and sat down, allowing Roy to rack. If that's not a concession, I don't know what is. What does John have to do? Go out and get a notarized statement that he has conceded the game?:D

Doc
 
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Artie Bodendorfer

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SactownTom said:
I'm sorry Doc,
I was under the impression that Roy moved the balls on the table prior to John B checking the ball return tray.
My bad.
And, by the way, I was quoting rule 10.2 not 10.1 you quoted in post #10
What happened was a big mistake. And I would like to ask Roy if he would like the rule changed to what I said????????? It will not change the out come but it will change the future. From her on out. What happened to Roy is over with . What do we do from her. Nobody is tal;king about what should be done or changed. And what happines if he would have run 3 balls and forgot to spot the ball. What happines then????????? And another inning goes by. Take it as a tough beat and what are you going to do to change the rule????????
 

suki

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I disagree again

I disagree again

gulfportdoc said:
It certainly does, Tom. I also quoted the rule in post #10: However, if the non-shooting player disturbs the balls, or breaks down their stick, or in the judgment of the acting official otherwise significantly disturbs the shooter in the assumption that the shooter is already out, such acts are considered a concession, and the shooter is considered to have won, regardless of whether a subsequent count reveals that more balls are needed.

After his last shot, Roy moved his scoring bead above the light. John then came over, checked the ball tray, and went back and sat down, allowing Roy to rack. If that's not a concession, I don't know what is. What does John have to do? Go out and get a notarized statement that he has conceded the game?:D

Doc
John obviously thought Roy was out too so sat down but that was not a concession move, his move was predicated on what Roy did and since it is Roys responsibiity to be right John assumed he was but then they both realized a ball was still owed. At that point Roy loses because he obviously moved more than 1 ball. Now why should John get penalized for Roy's responsibility? It is a harsh rule but its there.
The argument is the concession, not the rule. IMO there was no concession by sitting down. Obviously the official made the same determination. Morally John might have replayed the game but that is really not an option.
 

suki

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Read

Read

Artie Bodendorfer said:
What happened was a big mistake. And I would like to ask Roy if he would like the rule changed to what I said????????? It will not change the out come but it will change the future. From her on out. What happened to Roy is over with . What do we do from her. Nobody is tal;king about what should be done or changed. And what happines if he would have run 3 balls and forgot to spot the ball. What happines then????????? And another inning goes by. Take it as a tough beat and what are you going to do to change the rule????????
Rule 9.4 coveres what you do Artie. I think u should study the rules before you give such confusing answers, responses and solutions.
Or learn to type and spell.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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suki said:
Rule 9.4 coveres what you do Artie. I think u should study the rules before you give such confusing answers, responses and solutions.
Or learn to type and spell.
My rule is simple you pay the ball on the first ball you make. Nothing cofusing about that. And I will learn to spell when yopu learn how to play one pocket. I dont need some body telling me how to read the rules. That isnt going to do anything about the rule. And for your information the people back in my time made the rule to put the coin on the table if you owed a ball. So I dont need someone that doesnt have a clue whats going on. Or doesnt try to help and change a rule that can be better. And you are very fourtunate that you can spell. Maybe that will help you to learn to pl;ay.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
My rule is simple you pay the ball on the first ball you make. Nothing cofusing about that. And I will learn to spell when yopu learn how to play one pocket. I dont need some body telling me how to read the rules. That isnt going to do anything about the rule. And for your information the people back in my time made the rule to put the coin on the table if you owed a ball. So I dont need someone that doesnt have a clue whats going on. Or doesnt try to help and change a rule that can be better. And you are very fourtunate that you can spell. Maybe that will help you to learn to pl;ay.
And its confusing to you because you dont no too much. And one person replied and said it was a good rule and a better rule. But I guess you didnt see that. And the rule needs to be changed weather it gets changed or not.
 

Fatboy

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
My rule is simple you pay the ball on the first ball you make. Nothing cofusing about that. And I will learn to spell when yopu learn how to play one pocket. I dont need some body telling me how to read the rules. That isnt going to do anything about the rule. And for your information the people back in my time made the rule to put the coin on the table if you owed a ball. So I dont need someone that doesnt have a clue whats going on. Or doesnt try to help and change a rule that can be better. And you are very fourtunate that you can spell. Maybe that will help you to learn to pl;ay.
Get'em Artie, I cant spell either and thats not important here, this isnt a spelling place its a place about pool, specifically 1P and thats all that matters!!! I never learned to spell and cant it hasnt hurt me a bit over the years,

you have my full respect Artie!!!
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Fatboy said:
Get'em Artie, I cant spell either and thats not important here, this isnt a spelling place its a place about pool, specifically 1P and thats all that matters!!! I never learned to spell and cant it hasnt hurt me a bit over the years,

you have my full respect Artie!!!
THANKS A LOTE FOR YOUR SUPPORT. I HAVE ONLY HERD GOD THINGS ABOUT YOU I HAVANT HERD ONE NEGATIVE THING ABOUT YOU. YOU ARE OK WITH ME. AND FOR SOMEONE NOT WANTHING TO MAKE A RULE BETER THEN WHAT IT IS I DONT UNDERSTAND IT. AND IF THE WANT TO GIVE THIER TWO CENTS AND CRITIZIZE THEN GIVE YOUR OPINIOPN HOW YOU THINK THE RULE SHOULD BE CHANGED. AND AS FAR AS SPELING HE NEDS TO GET A JOB AS A SPELING TEACHER. I NEVER HAD A JOB SO I DONT NO HOW TO WORK SPELL OR LOOSE AND MY WIN PERCENTAGE MITE BE THE BEST EVER. SO TELING ME I CANT SPELL DOESNT MEAN A THING. AND I DONT NEED A NOBODY TELLING ME WHATS WHAT OR CRITIZIZING ME. AND HE DOESNT EVEN NO ME. BUT THANKS FOR YOUR SUPORT AND I FEEL THE SAME WAY YOU DO. AND SUCCERS ALWAYS PUT THIER TWO CENTS INTO IT THATS WHY THE GET TAKEN OF. THE ONLY WORD I SPEL GOD IS HOW TO WIN. AND WINING IS THE NAME OF THE GAME. THANKS A LOT FATBOY. DO YOU NO THE PHILY FAT BOYS THAT BET SPORTS?
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Cowboy Dennis said:
I do agree that Roys opponent should have called attention to the fact that the game was not over after Roy moved the score to add one game to his side. At that point he should be obligated to point out that the game is not over yet and move the score back to reflect the score of the set. But maybe he thought the game was over. Roy said they didn't notice the coin until after he had racked the balls.

But he did not err in getting out of his chair. If Roy moves the score button then his opponents responsibility is to see that he has all balls necessary to win the game. What would you have him do at that point? Sit there and let Roy rack and maybe only have 7 balls? Larceny goes both ways.

Nobody set Roy up but Roy. I have seen players think they were out when they only had seven balls. It's not my job to help my opponent beat me is it?

That said, if I was in that situation and Roy did that to me, I would stand up and move the scorekeeper back to where it was and sit back down. He has a coin by his pocket to tell him of his owed ball. If he cannot figure out why I moved the scorekeeper back and sat down, that's his problem.
I still stand by everything I wrote in this thread. You are all wrong:p .

Dennis
 

John Brumback

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suki said:
John obviously thought Roy was out too so sat down but that was not a concession move, his move was predicated on what Roy did and since it is Roys responsibiity to be right John assumed he was but then they both realized a ball was still owed. At that point Roy loses because he obviously moved more than 1 ball. Now why should John get penalized for Roy's responsibility? It is a harsh rule but its there.
The argument is the concession, not the rule. IMO there was no concession by sitting down. Obviously the official made the same determination. Morally John might have replayed the game but that is really not an option.

Thank you Thank you,That's what happened right there in black and white.
Ps: I made sure not to touch any balls untill he did, also. I never touch the balls first. Thank you again for explaning HOW It happened.John B
 

John Brumback

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Cowboy Dennis said:
I still stand by everything I wrote in this thread. You are all wrong:p .

Dennis
I don't think he moved his bead over.If he did that's the same time we saw the coin or that's when he raked the balls.It all happened real fast. It wasn't like we just stood there wondering about It. John B.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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John Brumback said:
I don't think he moved his bead over.If he did that's the same time we saw the coin or that's when he raked the balls.It all happened real fast. It wasn't like we just stood there wondering about It. John B.
John,

I'm one of the few you don't have to explain anything to. Weak players also pull moves and blame it on the good player. All of the rookies couldn't figure it out, except suki and I think androd:) .

RBL
 

John Brumback

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Cowboy Dennis said:
John,

I'm one of the few you don't have to explain anything to. Weak players also pull moves and blame it on the good player. All of the rookies couldn't figure it out, except suki and I think androd:) .

RBL
That's cool Dennis! I just felt better getting that out there. John B.
 

wincardona

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In regard to the match between John and Roy, what John did could of been interpreted several differen't ways, so who's to assume that their interpretation of the act was correct? You can't, so then Roy should forfeit the game. Unfortunately Roy lost the game when he racked the balls, but that's the rules we play by. If Roy would of announced that he was out without being contested by John, then Roy would have won the game.

I guess it's true, whenever you assume something you make an ass out of u and me.

Billy I.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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wincardona said:
I guess it's true, whenever you assume something you make an ass out of u and me.

Billy I.
You waited 1 year and 11 months to impart that wisdom to us, in two different threads? Giving your response sooner carries more weight. I didn't know or care who Roy was referring to when he made his post, everything I wrote therefore applies to anyone he played, as always. What's fair is fair no matter the players involved.

Dennis
 

KindlyOleUncleDave

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2.38 cents

2.38 cents

Not to belittle the conversation here but it is the stuff headaches are made of ... bad ones. Nor do I mean to cast any aspersions.

Beneath every "Billiards" sign is the one that many folks do not see: "All hope abandon ye who enter here". Or so my Pop told me (but then what did he know ... when he was a kid, horses were still pooping on Main St. in Omaha.)

Too much attention cannot be paid in any room which caters to folks like us'uns.
 

beatle

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old posts but good ones here.
my take on things is always a little different but here goes. if playing in a cash game you play by the rules but also give some leeway to mistakes that are minor or can be contested.
but in a tournament rules are strictly laid out and you are not playing man to man but against the field of players. and also you abide strictly to the rules and should be able to use them to your advantage any way you can. and so can your opponent.
the TD decides what is the right call based on the info he receives and what he knows.
 

Roy Steffensen

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John Brumback said:
I don't think he moved his bead over.If he did that's the same time we saw the coin or that's when he raked the balls.It all happened real fast. It wasn't like we just stood there wondering about It. John B.
I still remember it, it's almost as it happened yesterday. I did move the bead before you checked the balls, and before I raked the balls, but as you wrote, it all happened very fast.

As I wrote in my first post, there is only one person to blame for what happened, and that's me.

It still hurts though, even 2 years after, because I played good against a Champion and it would have been hill-hill and my break. The odds are of course huge that you would have destroyed me anyway in that last game, but it would have been a lot better way losing than how it all happened :eek:

Like I've said in other threads, you were a gentleman all the way, and I still remember your face when we noticed the coin after I finished racking. You were just as surprised as me, and neither of us had any idea what to do.

This was the second match that I played that Niels Feijen were sweating, and we were discussing it afterwards, and we both agreed that it was my mistake, and that we need to be careful when it comes to counting balls and errors.

I think that's the lesson learned from this match, to always count balls and fouls.

Looking forward to our rematch in a future DCC, John, and good luck this year! Make it 3 in a row!!! :)

Oh, and congrats again with the Hall of Fame
 

John Brumback

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Roy Steffensen said:
I still remember it, it's almost as it happened yesterday. I did move the bead before you checked the balls, and before I raked the balls, but as you wrote, it all happened very fast.

As I wrote in my first post, there is only one person to blame for what happened, and that's me.

It still hurts though, even 2 years after, because I played good against a Champion and it would have been hill-hill and my break. The odds are of course huge that you would have destroyed me anyway in that last game, but it would have been a lot better way losing than how it all happened :eek:

Like I've said in other threads, you were a gentleman all the way, and I still remember your face when we noticed the coin after I finished racking. You were just as surprised as me, and neither of us had any idea what to do.

This was the second match that I played that Niels Feijen were sweating, and we were discussing it afterwards, and we both agreed that it was my mistake, and that we need to be careful when it comes to counting balls and errors.

I think that's the lesson learned from this match, to always count balls and fouls.

Looking forward to our rematch in a future DCC, John, and good luck this year! Make it 3 in a row!!! :)

Oh, and congrats again with the Hall of Fame
Thanks Roy! You are a stand up man for sure!! Believe It or not, I did and still do feel sorry for you,by the way you had to lose that match.I know It had to HURT BIG Time! I do hope we have a rematch sometime,but I'm not going to take it easy on you anymore lol.Man, did you catch fire or what? You are a straight shootin son of a gun!!! Thanks alot, my good friend Roy.
John B.
 
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