Rule of thumb for one rail cross banks

jack

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May 24, 2004
Messages
38
First, I have to say i'm glad people are here, and so quickly too...a big hello those I recognize from azbilliards...

So, onto my question:

Several good players I know have told me this--if I have an object ball on the oppoents side of the table, and my cue ball can't go straight into his pocket, I can't bank it into mine.....check out the layout to see what I mean...

START(
%Am8H4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ4R1%OJ5M0%Ph9L7%Qp2G1%Us1Z0%Vo4C6%Wm0I7
%Xh8L8%Yn8D6%Zn1G2%[p9H3%\r8H4%]r3H8%^n1I2%eB3a5
)END

Now, I've hit shots that this rule would say aren't possible.....usually with heavy inside english and a softer hit.

Is this rule well known or something they've just noticed? Are there any rules like this that help in situations? If you have a chance at a shot like this, how would you hit it?

Thanks!
 

Lunchmoney

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
74
jack said:
First, I have to say i'm glad people are here, and so quickly too...a big hello those I recognize from azbilliards...

So, onto my question:

Several good players I know have told me this--if I have an object ball on the oppoents side of the table, and my cue ball can't go straight into his pocket, I can't bank it into mine.....check out the layout to see what I mean...

START(
%Am8H4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ4R1%OJ5M0%Ph9L7%Qp2G1%Us1Z0%Vo4C6%Wm0I7
%Xh8L8%Yn8D6%Zn1G2%[p9H3%\r8H4%]r3H8%^n1I2%eB3a5
)END

Now, I've hit shots that this rule would say aren't possible.....usually with heavy inside english and a softer hit.

Is this rule well known or something they've just noticed? Are there any rules like this that help in situations? If you have a chance at a shot like this, how would you hit it?

Thanks!
My one pocket mentor told me the same thing about the cue ball going into your opponents hole. If I am playing a weaker player, I would try to bank the shot using the method you described. Most of the time if you double kiss the ball it bounces out away from the pocket. If I am playing a stronger player I usually play it safe and knock the ball away from his hole. Try this, if the object ball is on the other side of the pocket, hit it as if you were going to bank it down to the other corner pocket at the far end of the table. Sometimes it will double kiss and go over to your side of the table and maybe in your hole. I saw Jersey Red do this shot a long time ago.

Lunchmoney
 

jack

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
38
Lunchmoney said:
My one pocket mentor told me the same thing about the cue ball going into your opponents hole. If I am playing a weaker player, I would try to bank the shot using the method you described. Most of the time if you double kiss the ball it bounces out away from the pocket. If I am playing a stronger player I usually play it safe and knock the ball away from his hole. Try this, if the object ball is on the other side of the pocket, hit it as if you were going to bank it down to the other corner pocket at the far end of the table. Sometimes it will double kiss and go over to your side of the table and maybe in your hole. I saw Jersey Red do this shot a long time ago.

Lunchmoney
Ok, I think I can imagine it...pretend you're one railing it down to the top left corner...it'll come off the rail, kiss off the cue, and go towards your pocket...

reminds me a little of a shot that a one pocket player i know from the VA area showed me...

START(
%As1G4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pp9K9%Ur4G6%Vs4G5%Wq8H2%Xq2K0
%Yq2D3%Zq8F4%[q5F0%\p8C5%]s0Z9%^r2G9
)END

skim off the ball, the cue hits the rail and comes back in time to hit the moving ball into your pocket...he hit this is a game for position on three more balls and the win...pretty slick...;-)
 

Lunchmoney

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
74
jack said:
Ok, I think I can imagine it...pretend you're one railing it down to the top left corner...it'll come off the rail, kiss off the cue, and go towards your pocket...

reminds me a little of a shot that a one pocket player i know from the VA area showed me...

START(
%As1G4%BL7P8%CJ5O4%DL7N1%EM7P1%FK6P1%GK6N8%HM7N8%IL7O4%JK6M5
%KJ5P7%LJ5N2%MK6Q4%NJ5R0%OJ5M0%Pp9K9%Ur4G6%Vs4G5%Wq8H2%Xq2K0
%Yq2D3%Zq8F4%[q5F0%\p8C5%]s0Z9%^r2G9
)END

skim off the ball, the cue hits the rail and comes back in time to hit the moving ball into your pocket...he hit this is a game for position on three more balls and the win...pretty slick...;-)

You got it.

One question. All I see is a bunch of numbers and percent signs and the words start at the beginning and end at the finish. I know this is a description/picture of the shot but don't know how see it. Can you enlighten me? Thanks

Lunchmoney
 

jack

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
38
Lunchmoney said:
You got it.

One question. All I see is a bunch of numbers and percent signs and the words start at the beginning and end at the finish. I know this is a description/picture of the shot but don't know how see it. Can you enlighten me? Thanks

Lunchmoney
definitely.....this is one of the best things i've seen recently for showing a shot....highlight the text, everything from start through end, then scroll to the top of the page......you'll see a link "need to show a shot?"
click on that, then click on the paste icon on that page...click ok twice and you'll see the shot that someone's setup....pretty cool stuff...
let me know if you figure it out....
 

Eight & Out

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Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
27
The rule I know is if you can't shoot the cue ball directly into the pocket you will double kiss it.I can usually avoid it with high inside english and slow speed.

Pete
 

hemicudas

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
702
Eight & Out said:
The rule I know is if you can't shoot the cue ball directly into the pocket you will double kiss it.I can usually avoid it with high inside english and slow speed.

Pete
You can also slide draw the cb with outside english, holding the object ball as opposed to throwing it with inside english, depending on which way you need to go with the cb.
 

Lunchmoney

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
74
hemicudas said:
You can also slide draw the cb with outside english, holding the object ball as opposed to throwing it with inside english, depending on which way you need to go with the cb.

You hit the nail on the head $Bill. I pefer that way to lots of inside english and a slow hit. My success rate is higher with draw.

$Bill, have you noticed something about this forum so far? No bad mouthing of anyone and no negativity. Every post is either informative or humorous or both and they are all very positive. Maybe some good natured ribbing now and then but that is it. Does that say something about one pocket players? Keeping in mind you do have to think while you play the game.........

Lunchmoney
 

hemicudas

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
702
Lunchmoney said:
You hit the nail on the head $Bill. I pefer that way to lots of inside english and a slow hit. My success rate is higher with draw.

$Bill, have you noticed something about this forum so far? No bad mouthing of anyone and no negativity. Every post is either informative or humorous or both and they are all very positive. Maybe some good natured ribbing now and then but that is it. Does that say something about one pocket players? Keeping in mind you do have to think while you play the game.........

Lunchmoney
Totally agree Lunchmoney. It has been a pleasure to be here thus far.
 

vapros

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
3,547
Here is a variation on the rule of thumb mentioned at the start of this thread:
When the cue ball and the object ball are lined up straight in (or almost straight in) on any of the four corner pockets, there is the danger of a second collision in any bank shot to your pocket. This includes one, two and three rail banks.
This is not to say you must pass up all these shots. As mentioned earlier, you can have a measure of control through use of follow, draw, running english, holding english and even speed. But the danger is always there and should not be ignored, and you will encounter such patterns one or more times in nearly every one-pocket game you play.
Watch the good players play these shots. They deal with this situation routinely, and seldom are surprised by a second kiss. However, especially in close quarters, there are certain patterns that they do not even attempt to beat. You must learn what you can and cannot do in banking, and on each different table.
 

Chris Cass

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May 24, 2004
Messages
48
hemicudas said:
You can also slide draw the cb with outside english, holding the object ball as opposed to throwing it with inside english, depending on which way you need to go with the cb.
This is my specialty. I'm about 80% or more favorite to make this ball. I make it like you describe Hemi.

START(
%AF2Z3%JI7^7%Pi8Q5%UD1E1%VE4[2%WC9V1%XF3Y5%YO5D5%ZC3T9%[q9W4
%\P2C6%]G4Y6%^h9Q7%eC1b1
)END

LOL This is fun,

C.C.
 

Chris Cass

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
48
vapros said:
Here is a variation on the rule of thumb mentioned at the start of this thread:
When the cue ball and the object ball are lined up straight in (or almost straight in) on any of the four corner pockets, there is the danger of a second collision in any bank shot to your pocket. This includes one, two and three rail banks.
This is not to say you must pass up all these shots. As mentioned earlier, you can have a measure of control through use of follow, draw, running english, holding english and even speed. But the danger is always there and should not be ignored, and you will encounter such patterns one or more times in nearly every one-pocket game you play.
Watch the good players play these shots. They deal with this situation routinely, and seldom are surprised by a second kiss. However, especially in close quarters, there are certain patterns that they do not even attempt to beat. You must learn what you can and cannot do in banking, and on each different table.
Hi ya vapros,

You bring up some interesting points. I don't know if you've ever played polish pool but I have twice. The object is to make the lowest # ball in a rack of 9 and make it by caroming off the cb. So, basically your shooting the 0ne ball and making it off the cb.

That brings me to your point. Many of these shots are dead scratches in order to make them. It's like geometry and basically if you think about it? All pool shots are nothing but tangent lines. What we pool players do is, create our own tangent lines. These shots that are dead double hits are good. We can count on them when we need them and manitpulate them to our advantage with english, speed follow and draw.

BTW, Grady states the same in his video. Knowing that you uderstand what to do and when. Grady says and I've found out is very true. That if the cb doesn't clear the corner pocket clean? The double kiss is 100% unless you use reverse, adjusting speed. Critical where you transfer the power of the shot to the ob instead of the cb. Good stuff. Glad to see you again V.

Regards,

C.C.
 
Last edited:

Pelican

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May 25, 2004
Messages
703
jack said:
skim off the ball, the cue hits the rail and comes back in time to hit the moving ball into your pocket...he hit this is a game for position on three more balls and the win...pretty slick...;-)
Grady showed us this one when we went up to get the table. Really nice shot.
 

jack

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May 24, 2004
Messages
38
hemicudas said:
You can also slide draw the cb with outside english, holding the object ball as opposed to throwing it with inside english, depending on which way you need to go with the cb.
interesting....i'm imagining it now, and would have thought that it'd pull the cue into the path of the object ball.....

when you say slide draw, again, i can imagine it, but could you describe it? I would guess its pretty much what it sounds like...sliding the cueball into your object ball with a low-outside hit?

thanks!
 

Lunchmoney

Verified Member
Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
74
jack said:
definitely.....this is one of the best things i've seen recently for showing a shot....highlight the text, everything from start through end, then scroll to the top of the page......you'll see a link "need to show a shot?"
click on that, then click on the paste icon on that page...click ok twice and you'll see the shot that someone's setup....pretty cool stuff...
let me know if you figure it out....

Jack,

Thanks for the info, I figured it out, works great. :D I had figured it out a couple of weeks ago and reviewing old threads I was reminded to let you know if I was able to see the shots. Thanks again

Lunchmoney
 

hemicudas

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May 24, 2004
Messages
702
jack said:
interesting....i'm imagining it now, and would have thought that it'd pull the cue into the path of the object ball.....

when you say slide draw, again, i can imagine it, but could you describe it? I would guess its pretty much what it sounds like...sliding the cueball into your object ball with a low-outside hit?

thanks!
I don't know if I can discribe it any further than slide the cb, Jack. When you slide the cb with hard english, in or our, you get more english on the object ball because the cb stays in contact with the object ball longer and the cb reacts stronger off the rail. Hard slide english can be used to double kiss an object ball, allmost frozen to the rail and throw that ball 6-8 inches in either direction. If that object ball is within 6" of a corner pocket, you can pocket that ball using hard slide english. Obviously, the closer the ball is to the pocket, the easier it is to do. There are players that play the 5 ball over me that don't know how to use slide english properly, Jack.
 
Last edited:

Pelican

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May 25, 2004
Messages
703
Lunchmoney said:
Does that say something about one pocket players? Keeping in mind you do have to think while you play the game.........

Lunchmoney
:eek: Oh no!! THINK!!! I knew I was forgetting something :D
 

Pelican

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May 25, 2004
Messages
703
hemicudas said:
I don't know if I can discribe it any further than slide the cb.
$Bill, next time we be somewhere at the same time, ya know, kinda like in the same place together, hows bout demonstrate this here slide english. Heck, I had hard enough time with regular ole 9th grade english. :(

Thanks my friend, Pel
 

Troy

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Joined
May 24, 2004
Messages
89
I guess I'm not the only one that shoots these shots, eh... :) :)

Chris Cass said:
This is my specialty. I'm about 80% or more favorite to make this ball. I make it like you describe Hemi.

START(
%AF2Z3%JI7^7%Pi8Q5%UD1E1%VE4[2%WC9V1%XF3Y5%YO5D5%ZC3T9%[q9W4
%\P2C6%]G4Y6%^h9Q7%eC1b1
)END

LOL This is fun,

C.C.
 

Pelican

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
703
oops bang

oops bang

Troy said:
I guess I'm not the only one that shoots these shots, eh... :) :)
I have a collision at the intersection of the green and yellow lines about 90% of the time. What do i need to do?
 
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