Reyes clearly the best ever

learningonepocket

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Mar 7, 2012
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Well I know this thread is old, But here is my two cents on this matter.
Like anything else we all have opinions.
Do they matter I think they do.
Being an avid Pool player, and growing up in south fla.
I have been around a lot of great players.
When matching up with great players opinions matter.
If you walk in to a pool room and match up with a Champion and don't know it.
You play your game, and if your on you might be beating the breaks off of him.
Then some one walks in and says hey do you know who your playing.
BANG all the sudden you cant make a ball.

Well I think that's a big part of efrens success.
I seen him out moved a lot on videos in matches, The other player out moves him beats him to the shot only to dog it because he is playing efren.

The one thing I noticed watching any video with efren in it, with Billy commentating, is you will hear it a hundred times "
Efren is the best he is a magician"
Well all the top players coming up have heard this the whole time.

So in that aspect I kinda agree with Artie if you put it out there as he is the best and everyone says it enough.

Then what happens is players dog it because there not suppose to win.
Now I am not posting this to get hammered on But This is the way it is in all sports.

I want to touch base on another subject here as well.
I am not sure how to judge the best player.
Is it by tournaments or by cash play.

Example Mario Cruz comes to mind in south fla back in the late 90's he was beating a lot of good players for large money sometimes with weight some times with out, but he was getting there a lot for the cash.

But in tournaments he was getting beat out one two a lot. Now I was young back then and I beat him on a fla tour stop.

He said to me I never play good in these damn things. I get out of the gate to slow.

Thats why I like to gamble because If it takes 6 hours to hit a gear if I have the money to outlast it I can still win.

Anyhow
Thats my two cents for what its worth.
 

jrhendy

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4,701
Well I know this thread is old, But here is my two cents on this matter.
Like anything else we all have opinions.
Do they matter I think they do.
Being an avid Pool player, and growing up in south fla.
I have been around a lot of great players.
When matching up with great players opinions matter.
If you walk in to a pool room and match up with a Champion and don't know it.
You play your game, and if your on you might be beating the breaks off of him.
Then some one walks in and says hey do you know who your playing.
BANG all the sudden you cant make a ball.

Well I think that's a big part of efrens success.
I seen him out moved a lot on videos in matches, The other player out moves him beats him to the shot only to dog it because he is playing efren.

The one thing I noticed watching any video with efren in it, with Billy commentating, is you will hear it a hundred times "
Efren is the best he is a magician"
Well all the top players coming up have heard this the whole time.

So in that aspect I kinda agree with Artie if you put it out there as he is the best and everyone says it enough.

Then what happens is players dog it because there not suppose to win.
Now I am not posting this to get hammered on But This is the way it is in all sports.

I want to touch base on another subject here as well.
I am not sure how to judge the best player.
Is it by tournaments or by cash play.

Example Mario Cruz comes to mind in south fla back in the late 90's he was beating a lot of good players for large money sometimes with weight some times with out, but he was getting there a lot for the cash.

But in tournaments he was getting beat out one two a lot. Now I was young back then and I beat him on a fla tour stop.

He said to me I never play good in these damn things. I get out of the gate to slow.

Thats why I like to gamble because If it takes 6 hours to hit a gear if I have the money to outlast it I can still win.

Anyhow
Thats my two cents for what its worth.
I agree somewhat about players dogging it when they seem to have Efren beat, but he still has made some remarkable comebacks when he got the chance. He just does what he has to do to win.
 

wincardona

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Messages
7,411
Well I know this thread is old, But here is my two cents on this matter.
Like anything else we all have opinions.
Do they matter I think they do.
Being an avid Pool player, and growing up in south fla.
I have been around a lot of great players.
When matching up with great players opinions matter.
If you walk in to a pool room and match up with a Champion and don't know it.
You play your game, and if your on you might be beating the breaks off of him.
Then some one walks in and says hey do you know who your playing.
BANG all the sudden you cant make a ball.

Well I think that's a big part of efrens success.
I seen him out moved a lot on videos in matches, The other player out moves him beats him to the shot only to dog it because he is playing efren. I seriously doubt that you have seen Reyes being out moved a lot.

The one thing I noticed watching any video with efren in it, with Billy commentating, is you will hear it a hundred times "
Efren is the best he is a magician"
Well all the top players coming up have heard this the whole time. Whenever Reyes does something special, would you rather hear me refer to him as a butcher?

So in that aspect I kinda agree with Artie if you put it out there as he is the best and everyone says it enough.

Then what happens is players dog it because there not suppose to win.
Now I am not posting this to get hammered on But This is the way it is in all sports.
Isn't that a bit of a stretch? Me bragging on Reyes didn't make him a great player, he did that all by himself. But him playing as great as he plays was responsible for persuading me to express my opinion. (bragging)
I want to touch base on another subject here as well.
I am not sure how to judge the best player.
Is it by tournaments or by cash play. I tried to answer that question with how I believe the best player should be judged in an earlier thread. I judge the best player, or the best boxer, or the best tennis player, or the best football team, ect, ect, on how they fare against the best teams/players in their time. And also their tournament win %. Research this for the past 25 years, and then you tell me who's been the best in every game. I would think that this would be a fairly good measuring stick, wouldn't you? Or maybe you respect Johnny Smiths opinion as a better one.

Example Mario Cruz comes to mind in south fla back in the late 90's he was beating a lot of good players for large money sometimes with weight some times with out, but he was getting there a lot for the cash.

But in tournaments he was getting beat out one two a lot. Now I was young back then and I beat him on a fla tour stop.

He said to me I never play good in these damn things. I get out of the gate to slow.

Thats why I like to gamble because If it takes 6 hours to hit a gear if I have the money to outlast it I can still win.

Anyhow
Thats my two cents for what its worth.
It is what it is. We have pretenders, and contenders, we have all kinds out there, if your lucky you'll be able to figure who 's who. If not your road may be a little tougher, but that still may not be a bad thing. Good luck.

Dr. Bill
 

tylerdurden

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Oct 1, 2011
Messages
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I have actually thought about this subject quite a bit. Pick almost any sport, and there TENDS (not always) to be a guy who is almost heads and shoulders above the rest, at any given point in time. Why is that??

I think there should be, or maybe there is, a name for this phenomena in sports. Once you literally know you are the best, your confidence boosts and your opponents dwindles. There are 2 things happening.... the best player is getting more shots (in general) and he is taking better advantage of the opportunities given. It all culminates in a mountain, and we get these players that are just unstoppable. It all must begin with actually being the best though, there is no faking it... so every player who has ever gotten there deserves his due.

Lastly, I used to love the way Tony Ellin played efren. He went in with no fear, and no (apparent) respect, and did well against him. I guess what i'm saying is, if somebody admires Efren too much, it is the PLAYERS. They have a responsibility to not get anywhere near that type of head-space. I'm a huge fan of billy's commentary, yet I think there was maybe a little too mush love for efren, but I don't think that was the "problem" at all.... that responsibility lies with the players.
 

SJDinPHX

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You da man Effy !

You da man Effy !

We have all been critical of Efren's shot selection at times, and yes, it has cost him several important games, and/or sessions, in those instances. But it has also, instilled fear in his opponent and invoked the "Efren Factor", many more times...Who among us, can argue that ?
It is not his "right or wrong" shot selection, nor his sometimes "less than killer instinct" that has made him the most successful player of our generation..It is more often, his dominant skill, and winning attitude that has made him almost unbeatable.


One can only imagine, what a force he would have been, IF he had possessed the "killer instinct" of someone like say Parica, or Varner, or even Artie ?..Would he ever lose a session..... long OR short !
His enjoyment, and love for the game, almost transcend his skill and performance under pressure...He is always able to laugh off his rare lapses in focus or judgement. Plus, he is very "lucky"..:rolleyes:

For ANYONE to have the audacity to think they can "teach" or "coach" those rarest of qualities he possesses, is simply out of touch with reality, and has obviously reached the pinnacle of absurdity. JMHO
 
Last edited:

onepockethacker

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Jan 31, 2012
Messages
3,385
Well I know this thread is old, But here is my two cents on this matter.
Like anything else we all have opinions.
Do they matter I think they do.
Being an avid Pool player, and growing up in south fla.
I have been around a lot of great players.
When matching up with great players opinions matter.
If you walk in to a pool room and match up with a Champion and don't know it.
You play your game, and if your on you might be beating the breaks off of him.
Then some one walks in and says hey do you know who your playing.
BANG all the sudden you cant make a ball.

Well I think that's a big part of efrens success.
I seen him out moved a lot on videos in matches, The other player out moves him beats him to the shot only to dog it because he is playing efren.

The one thing I noticed watching any video with efren in it, with Billy commentating, is you will hear it a hundred times "
Efren is the best he is a magician"
Well all the top players coming up have heard this the whole time.

So in that aspect I kinda agree with Artie if you put it out there as he is the best and everyone says it enough.

Then what happens is players dog it because there not suppose to win.
Now I am not posting this to get hammered on But This is the way it is in all sports.

I want to touch base on another subject here as well.
I am not sure how to judge the best player.
Is it by tournaments or by cash play.

Example Mario Cruz comes to mind in south fla back in the late 90's he was beating a lot of good players for large money sometimes with weight some times with out, but he was getting there a lot for the cash.

But in tournaments he was getting beat out one two a lot. Now I was young back then and I beat him on a fla tour stop.

He said to me I never play good in these damn things. I get out of the gate to slow.

Thats why I like to gamble because If it takes 6 hours to hit a gear if I have the money to outlast it I can still win.

Anyhow
Thats my two cents for what its worth.
Mario Played better in touranments than he did for money. He won alot of Florida tour events from 2000 to 2004. However i used to rob him every week
 

TheClamp

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Nov 15, 2011
Messages
34
IMHO......... does it really matter who the best is ? the best at what ? shot making ? ball control ? risk management ? mental game ?

I just don't think you can ever quite nail these things down as players are forever changing. BUT, if you ask me, Efren plays the game with great charisma and humility. That is the most important thing....... his personality is unequaled. He takes the game seriously but not himself and I admire that
 

learningonepocket

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Joined
Mar 7, 2012
Messages
14
Hey guys thanks for your imput.
Efren with out a shadow of a doubt is a wonderful one of a kind player.
I was just making a statement on how opinions matter.
As far as my example of Mario, Well I said in the late 90's, If he went on to play well in tournaments after that fantastic for him.
Rob I am pretty sure I know who you are from back then, and you sure have beat a lot of great players.
Any how I didn't want to make it a pissing match on who is great and who isn't just stating how opinions matter.

Thanks for the responses.
 

Ken_4fun

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Feb 2, 2011
Messages
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Efren versed Jason Miller

Efren versed Jason Miller

I can say this.

Efren is the best I have ever seen. Is he the best that ever was? I dont know. But without a doubt he is the best I have ever seen in person or on video.

I have said it a million times, I hate it that the videos that are available today of todays players wasnt available for the older champions. (But Artie would have probably never allowed himself to be on video).

I watched Efren absolutely dominate Jason Miller in the DCC finals. I know Jason isnt a onepocket guru, but he is an awesome all around player. I think the match was over in well under an hour. The most impressive show of cue ball control I have EVER seen by ANY player. It would have not mattered who Efren was playing. I dont know if Jason ever had one shot where he wasnt tied up, behind a ball or whatever.

Ken
 

Deeman

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Joined
Oct 6, 2004
Messages
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Like one of the pro golfers said about another..."He plays a game with which I am not familiar!"

If anyone was better it was well before my time.

DeeMan
 

lll

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Messages
15,359
heres a comment from azb thread regarding a 1000 on accustats scale


These are three matches where Efren Reyes plays perfect pooll. Against Bustamante in the 1999 World Pool Championships he runs a nine-pack. In the 1995 US Open against Kunihko he put on a similar display with some excellent commentary from Grady Mathews and Billy Incardona. In the 2004 Derby City Classic he plays a perfect 1.000 match against Jimmy Wetch, this also with some excellent commentary from Danny Diliberto. The subsequent parts of each video are in the related videos tab. Enjoy.


Efren Reyes vs Francisco Bustamante Part 1 of 8
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gklzroICwMc[/ame]

Efren Reyes vs Kunihko Part 1 of 4
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex9VAjvxZ98[/ame]

Efren Reyes vs Jimmy Wetch Part 1 of 4
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIV5_AiuMMg[/ame] (These videos are no longer available -- been removed )
 

Jimmy B

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That's Larry, known as lll (three small L's). He is our guide. One of the main posters. The interpreter. He has the Spanish down. Another shot selection man. I call everyone I know named Larry=Loony Tunes. That's no diss though. Like Paul Simon says, still crazy after all these years..........
 

lll

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Joined
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Messages
15,359
Sorry was up all night and fallen out thought Dr Bill posted it
Thank you Larry.
That's Larry, known as lll (three small L's). He is our guide. One of the main posters. The interpreter. He has the Spanish down. Another shot selection man. I call everyone I know named Larry=Loony Tunes. That's no diss though. Like Paul Simon says, still crazy after all these years..........
Jiimy B
looney tunes is ok with me......still crazy after all these years........:D


learning 1p
no problema......:D

:lol
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I toaly dis agree.Its redicoulous. That Billy would even say this. Yes Eferine is a great player.

One off the most skilled players I would agree with. one off the smardest.

Completyt false. Talent above talent yes.


Lets talk about each individule game.

Nine Ball I but him in the top 5 greatest players.

Straight pool. He would not have beat the great players.

One pocket he is in the top ten. But not in Knowledge. Only in ability.

Bank pool he would not have beat the best bankers.

Eight ball He is a great player.

But He is not in the top 5 five. Because lak off knowledgr.

Three Coushion Ok not great. Snooker ok but not great.

I always said You were a Eferine Fan. And that wont change.

Eferine didnt bet his owne money. WHY. If you are the best. Why wouldnt you bet youre owne money.

Eferine came after all the great one pocket players.

Hopkines was the only one left that was a great onr pocket player.

But his game was going thee other direction.

All the great one pocket players came before Eferine.

Look at his taps and see what he does. And you will see the truth. Howe he plays and thinks.

And all the old great players thier are no taps. Roo compaire. And howe they played.

Efrine has a lot off skills and talent. But his knowlwedge is limited.

I belive wright now today. If I could coach Eral that he would beat Eferine playing one pocket.

If he would listen. Witch I dont no.

Eral could beat Eferine today. With me coaching him. And so would Shanne. And Appilton.

And Eferine has weaknesses weather you want too belive it or not.

Even his weak breack playing nine ball. If Eferine would have played in Johnson city.

I dont no if he would have won a tournement. In Straight pool one pocket or nineball.

And too say somone is the greatest. Is a opininated statement.

And can not be proven. Or compaired. The tournements are what built Eferines reputation. And back years ago that was not posable.

Eferine is great. WAs he the best


Leaves a Big Qouistion mark. WHAT GAME. THat would make it more realistic.

Because certain people were the best at certain games.

Andv Mr three coushion. Didnt rate his 3 coushion game too high . Were you did.

And you never played you good game against Eferine when I seen you play him.

Show the Chriss Gentile game and Eferine match. And you will see he realy didnt play.

Like a great player. And taps dont lie.

JUst showe it and you will see a lot off mistakes. In every game. And Chriss didnt play well eithier.

If he is the best. Then show his tapes and see what he does. At least with him ..

We have some evidence how he played. And you cannot chamge the taps.

And you will see his game is not as solid as you think.


And Willy and Worst. And taylor. I would pick them all over Efrine. And these players playing thier best game. Eferine would come in second.

Say it like it is. And if these players played every day. 50 tournements a year. Day and night. Howe good would they have been.

And that all that efrine did was play pool.

Its not wright or fair too put him ahead off all these great players. And they never even played.

And everyone has opinions.

You happen too be a great player. With a opinion.

But I disagree completly. By saying that Eferine was the best.

You should have said whar game.

And you also said that Harol Worst was the greatest all around player. Or is it Rferine.

To me Worst was the greatest all around player. And Willie Mosconie comes second.
Your own words, not mine.

Dennis
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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heres a comment from azb thread regarding a 1000 on accustats scale


These are three matches where Efren Reyes plays perfect pooll. Against Bustamante in the 1999 World Pool Championships he runs a nine-pack. In the 1995 US Open against Kunihko he put on a similar display with some excellent commentary from Grady Mathews and Billy Incardona. In the 2004 Derby City Classic he plays a perfect 1.000 match against Jimmy Wetch, this also with some excellent commentary from Danny Diliberto. The subsequent parts of each video are in the related videos tab. Enjoy.


Efren Reyes vs Francisco Bustamante Part 1 of 8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gklzroICwMc

Efren Reyes vs Kunihko Part 1 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ex9VAjvxZ98

Efren Reyes vs Jimmy Wetch Part 1 of 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pIV5_AiuMMg (These videos are no longer available -- been removed )
Efren Playing Bustamante is a great tap. And every ntap says a different story. I started watching the nine ball match. When the score was 3 to 1 Bustamante. And Bustamante missed a shot on his 4 rack. Efren came to the table and ran rack after rack never missing one shot. Then he broke made a ball and shot a combination and that is the only shot I seen him miss in the whole match.

And after missing the combination and getting back to the table. He completed running the remaining racks. Without missing a shot. That is what makes Efren so great. He doesn't miss his shots. So you don't get a chance to shoot. His brake is ok. Witch he probably knows. And could improve. If he relay wants to work on it. Efren has so much ability and is so accurate its unbelievable.

His stroke is flawless and his position and control is better than thee other players. And it shows. How do you think he won. Not with his brake. And if you are waiting for Efren to miss or make a mistake. You have a long Waite.

Watching his one pocket taps shows a different story. And his eight ball taps. I don't understand why he does not play in China eight ball tournaments on a snooker table. He has the ability and talent to win those tournaments. And the prize money is very good. Efren is a complete ability player. His pool knowledge is very good. And he knows what to do in tough and pressure situations. That's when he shines. His one pocket knowledge can improve and make him unbeatable.

And I would spend some time with Efren and show him what he has to learn and do to win the eight ball championship on a snooker table. Efren would be a great person to show and teach. Because of his personality and his pool understanding. He would learn very fast. And the same in one pocket. He can do more than the other players. And he movies the cue ball around better than the other player. And that talent will beat the snooker players and the eight ball players on a snooker table in China.

One last thing. Efren ability will show up much stronger than the other players. Once he relay learns. Howe to run and plan his complete run out. From the first shot to the last ball. Taking all the guess work and instinct playing out of the game. I am sorry I don't have the ability or talent any more. But I have the knowledge But the knowledge without the ability will not win the money. And The first step to being a champion is. YOU MUST HAVE THE ABILITY. Knowledge without the ability. IS like being a handy cap person.
 

beatle

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since artie brought this thread back from the dead ill chime in here.
i believe it is so clsoe to who is best amount the all time greatist. my choice is jersey red but on the 5 by 10. and as artie said that is where one pocket used to be played. and where it wasnt just a who can just shoot the best wins.

but the people in most any spot who make it to the top and actually hold that spot for a long time are also the smartest of the group. and like it or not in general pool players arent the brightest candles on the cake.

guys like allen hopkins went from just a great straight pool player to a great one pocket player. not because he shot so well but he is smarter than most and picked up the game quickly.

efren is in the top tier of intelligent players. sure he makes mistakes in choice of shots but i think his mistakes tend to be in choosing what is the best shot for him. and since he can execute better than almost anyone when combining pocketing and complicated position he chooses the right shot for him instead of the right shot that would be the best for the other top players. that is what makes him so good.
 
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