Re:Fouls question

opposedtwin

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Re:Fouls question

Shooting player uses bridge and makes object ball. When picking up bridge he contacts and moves two balls. Opponent declares a foul and shooter spots pocketed ball. The question is whether he should spot the pocketed ball only or the pocketed ball plus additional ball for the foul. What say ye?
 

androd

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Shooting player uses bridge and makes object ball. When picking up bridge he contacts and moves two balls. Opponent declares a foul and shooter spots pocketed ball. The question is whether he should spot the pocketed ball only or the pocketed ball plus additional ball for the foul. What say ye?
If it's an agreed foul, the ball pocketed during the foul and one more for the penalty.
 

Jeff sparks

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Happened yesterday

Cue ball was struck twice and pushed into the jaws of his corner pocket, total accident by my opponent, and he spotted a ball for the foul. Question, does the CB stay there, or do I have ball in hand in the kitchen?
 

androd

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Happened yesterday

Cue ball was struck twice and pushed into the jaws of his corner pocket, total accident by my opponent, and he spotted a ball for the foul. Question, does the CB stay there, or do I have ball in hand in the kitchen?
Don't be greedy. :lol:):D
 

Jeff sparks

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Happened yesterday

Cue ball was struck twice and pushed into the jaws of his corner pocket, total accident by my opponent, and he spotted a ball for the foul. Question, does the CB stay there, or do I have ball in hand in the kitchen?

Doc, Bill, John, Rod anybody know the rule? I know we just discussed something like this in a prior thread, but I was playing a member here and neither of us could decide, so I just played it from where it stopped. Just for future reference, and greed is good according to Gordon Gecko. Lol

What's the rule?
 
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tylerdurden

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If the cb stops on the playing surface in one pocket you play it from where it stops.
 

wincardona

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If it's an agreed foul, the ball pocketed during the foul and one more for the penalty.
I don't know the rule for that type of a situation, what you say could be right but my first thought was, did the foul occur after the shot was over. Meaning, did the cue ball come to a stop, then after that the balls were disturbed? Like I mentioned, I don't know the rule, however, what I thought has some validity, is there a written rule for this type of a foul?


I'm thinking that once the cue ball comes to a stop and the foul hasn't yet been executed then what ever follows should be treated as if the player was preparing for his his next shot, or on his exit from his previous inning. If he is preparing to continue his inning then the foul occurs, it would be loss of only one ball and he loses his turn at the table. If his inning is concluded and he fouls in some way as he's preparing to leave the table then it should be loss of one ball..imo.

I'm assuming it all has to do with when the inning is legally over, is it when the cue ball comes to a stop, or at some other point?

Dr. Bill
 
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lll

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I don't know the rule for that type of a situation, what you say could be right but my first thought was, did the foul occur after the shot was over. Meaning, did the cue ball come to a stop, then after that the balls were disturbed? Like I mentioned, I don't know the rule, however, what I thought has some validity, is there a written rule for this type of a foul?


I'm thinking that once the cue ball comes to a stop and the foul hasn't yet been executed then what ever follows should be treated as if the player was preparing for his his next shot, or on his exit from his previous inning. If he is preparing to continue his inning then the foul occurs, it would be loss of only one ball and he loses his turn at the table. If his inning is concluded and he fouls in some way as he's preparing to leave the table then it should be loss of one ball..imo.

I'm assuming it all has to do with when the inning is legally over, is it when the cue ball comes to a stop, or at some other point?

Dr. Bill
i couldnt find a rule but to me that seems logical
 

lll

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Doc, Bill, John, Rod anybody know the rule? I know we just discussed something like this in a prior thread, but I was playing a member here and neither of us could decide, so I just played it from where it stopped. Just for future reference, and greed is good according to Gordon Gecko. Lol

What's the rule?
jeff i couldnt find a rule
if it were intentional the rule would be loss of game for unsportsman like conduct
if it were a double hit and the cue ball was in a less precarious position you would play from where the cue ball ended up
right??
if so i think you have to play where the cue ball ends up
i definitely could be wrong
 

LSJohn

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If the cb stops on the playing surface in one pocket you play it from where it stops.
Yeah, I can't think of any exception other than after some "unsportsmanlike conduct" ruling when it was done intentionally and a referee imposed an additional penalty.

Is there any written rule regarding referee discretion in unusual circumstances?
 

tylerdurden

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Even unsportsman like conduct would be lose of game though. I don't think there is a situation where a player would get the ball in the kitchen when it stopped on the playing surface, unless a ref or other parties somehow agreed otherwise.

I just wanted to point out that Mr Incardona said he did not know what happenes to the potential spotted ball here. He did have a guess. I'm a broken record perhaps, but when the foremost authorities who have been playing one pocket for decades don't know what happens in a not so unusual case, I would say it's a strong indication for a rules update or overhaul. I suppose there is nobody who'd do it without getting paid so maybe that's why.

If you want my opionion a great way to start improving the rules would be to make some perminantly sticky thread somewhere, and every time one of these dubious questions comes up make note of it. That way in 100 years when somebody comes in to change the rules, he'll have a great reference of what needs improvement.
 

androd

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This has never been a question. Jeff said it was an accident, the opponent puts up a ball. Geez :frus
Always did, still does.
 

Wayne

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I don't know the rule for that type of a situation, what you say could be right but my first thought was, did the foul occur after the shot was over. Meaning, did the cue ball come to a stop, then after that the balls were disturbed? Like I mentioned, I don't know the rule, however, what I thought has some validity, is there a written rule for this type of a foul?


I'm thinking that once the cue ball comes to a stop and the foul hasn't yet been executed then what ever follows should be treated as if the player was preparing for his his next shot, or on his exit from his previous inning. If he is preparing to continue his inning then the foul occurs, it would be loss of only one ball and he loses his turn at the table. If his inning is concluded and he fouls in some way as he's preparing to leave the table then it should be loss of one ball..imo.

I'm assuming it all has to do with when the inning is legally over, is it when the cue ball comes to a stop, or at some other point?

Dr. Bill
In this situation the inning would not be over until the balls were disturbed (the inning would have continued if the balls had not been disturbed),

The shot is complete when not just the cueball but all balls come to rest. Therefore, if the foul occurred prior to this the pocketed ball and one other ball would be spotted. If it occurs after all balls came to rest then only one ball would be spotted.

Wayne
 

pvclou

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Re:Fouls question

Re:Fouls question

I was the one who fouled in Jeff's game. I was thinly cutting a ball two inches from my pocket. The cue ball was close to the rail and came back into my tip before I could get it out of the way. The object ball fell, and the cueball came to rest in the jaws of my pocket.

Jeff's question is whether he should get ball in hand for that. I thought he was joking, since i have never seen a ball in hand in onepocket unless the cueball left the table surface. Now I'm curious, what's the rule? I still think play it as it lies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

lll

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I was the one who fouled in Jeff's game. I was thinly cutting a ball two inches from my pocket. The cue ball was close to the rail and came back into my tip before I could get it out of the way. The object ball fell, and the cueball came to rest in the jaws of my pocket.

Jeff's question is whether he should get ball in hand for that. I thought he was joking, since i have never seen a ball in hand in onepocket unless the cueball left the table surface. Now I'm curious, what's the rule? I still think play it as it lies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
at dcc if you TAP a ball with the top of your cue for an intentional
instead of hitting with your cue tip
the foul is ball in hand in the kitchen
 

lll

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jeff i couldnt find a rule
if it were intentional the rule would be loss of game for unsportsman like conduct
if it were a double hit and the cue ball was in a less precarious position you would play from where the cue ball ended up
right??
if so i think you have to play where the cue ball ends up
i definitely could be wrong
I was the one who fouled in Jeff's game. I was thinly cutting a ball two inches from my pocket. The cue ball was close to the rail and came back into my tip before I could get it out of the way. The object ball fell, and the cueball came to rest in the jaws of my pocket.

Jeff's question is whether he should get ball in hand for that. I thought he was joking, since i have never seen a ball in hand in onepocket unless the cueball left the table surface. Now I'm curious, what's the rule? I still think play it as it lies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
i couldnt find a rule
my thoughts above
who knows how to contact ken shuman??
 

androd

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at dcc if you TAP a ball with the top of your cue for an intentional
instead of hitting with your cue tip
the foul is ball in hand in the kitchen
The above is a violation of the rules.
This thread has gotten ridiculous.
It was an accident. He owes one !
 

beatle

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listen to rod here. this isnt a cutthroat tournament. you cant over penalize things that are mistakes. its just a scratch and a one ball penalty, same as if he followed the cueball in the hole but here the ball stays where it stops.

for the one with the bridge. you just put the two balls back where they were.
the opponent does it as he sees fit with in reason.

many times there are things that arent clear. then the opponent can make you shoot it over again. like when you push the cueball intentionally to freeze it on the rail.
 

gulfportdoc

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Yeah, I can't think of any exception other than after some "unsportsmanlike conduct" ruling when it was done intentionally and a referee imposed an additional penalty.

Is there any written rule regarding referee discretion in unusual circumstances?
Yes. Here is a pertinent section of the WPA rules, to which the 1p.o rules defer when an issue is not covered there:

6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct

The normal penalty for unsportsmanlike conduct is the same as for a serious foul, but the referee may impose a penalty depending on his judgment of the conduct. Among other penalties possible are a warning; a standard-foul penalty, which will count as part of a three-foul sequence if applicable; a serious-foul penalty; loss of a rack, set or match; ejection from the competition possibly with forfeiture of all prizes, trophies and standings points.
Unsportsmanlike conduct is any intentional behavior that brings disrepute to the sport or which disrupts or changes the game to the extent that it cannot be played fairly. It includes
(a) distracting the opponent;
(b) changing the position of the balls in play other than by a shot;
(c) playing a shot by intentionally miscuing;
(d) continuing to play after a foul has been called or play has been suspended;
(e) practicing during a match;
(f) marking the table;
(g) delay of the game; and
(h) using equipment inappropriately.
 
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