Rail first break

u12armresl

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I have been using this break for quite some time.

Tournaments, gamb, etc. and never had an issue.

Back in the day 20+ years ago I remember that some people up North (Detroit) area didn't allow this break for gambling, and viewed it as skullduggery. The option was presented to rerack/rebreak or the game is done.

What are your thoughts on the side rail break, and it's history in the game?

I know all you red shoes guys love it because you guys run out on me.
 

straightback

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If I see someone getting ready to kick at the stack on a break, I smile inside and get ready for a long game. My take on it is that you take the usual 1.5 ball advantage and make it into a .5 ball advantage.

I'm sure it is possible to hit them just right and get balls by your pocket, but nowhere near the frequency you get with the traditional break.

You might ask yourself: Why don't the world's best employ it?

Regarding variations of the break:
1. I've seen Ike Runnels shoot the kick break once or twice;
2. I've seen Corey whack 'em and call the near pocket at the 2000 World; and
3. I've seen the second to the back ball struck by Buddy (actually, when guys play on 10' tables, I've seen lots use this).

Other than that less than 1% deviation, everyone uses the good' ol' break.
 
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u12armresl

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why do some people draw a ball and others follow.

You do what you are good and comfortable with.

If I am good at a side rail break, then I'm supposed to switch to the "good ol" break because the top people in the world use it?

If I see someone getting ready to kick at the stack on a break, I smile inside and get ready for a long game. My take on it is that you take the usual 1.5 ball advantage and make it into a .5 ball advantage.

I'm sure it is possible to hit them just right and get balls by your pocket, but nowhere near the frequency you get with the traditional break.

If it is so good, why don't the world's best employ it?

Regarding variations of the break:
1. I've seen Ike Runnels shoot the kick break once or twice;
2. I've seen Corey whack 'em and call the near pocket at the 2000 World; and
3. I've seen the second to the back ball struck by Buddy (actually, when guys play on 10' tables, I've seen lots use this).

Other than that less than 1% deviation, everyone uses the good' ol' break.
 

straightback

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Was is not you who just wrote: "What are your thoughts on the side rail break, and it's history in the game?" I think that if you like the side rail break, you should use it.
 

NH Steve

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why do some people draw a ball and others follow.

You do what you are good and comfortable with.

If I am good at a side rail break, then I'm supposed to switch to the "good ol" break because the top people in the world use it?
I dabbled with it about ten years ago after watching an oldtimer do it to me. When he did it, it seemed like I usually had to kick for my first shot (safety). The saving grace was that it was usually a pretty manageable short rail kick, and that was about the extent of the problem. But still, it took me a while to get used to how to defend it...

If I did decide to bring it out, it was basically if I was frustrated with my break and and was looking at trying to throw a curve at my opponent. When I did it, I was using draw to flatten out the approach angle of the cue ball into the side of the stack.

I stick to the conventional break now because it seems to open the balls better for me.
 

u12armresl

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Yes Sir I did.

The "why don't the top pros use it" was IMHO an unnecessary jab.

Was is not you who just wrote: "What are your thoughts on the side rail break, and it's history in the game?" I think that if you like the side rail break, you should use it.
 

u12armresl

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I've seen 3 incarnations of this break.

One which freezes you to the side of the head ball.
One which freezes you to the second ball.
And one which hits the second ball and brings the last ball out just a little bit, but not enough to make it.

Guess I'll keep being the dummy who goes against the odds.

Form a line, make a game :)


Steve, do you ever go back to it in practice, to see if you can make it viable, or are you comfortable with the standard break?


I dabbled with it about ten years ago after watching an oldtimer do it to me. When he did it, it seemed like I usually had to kick for my first shot (safety). The saving grace was that it was usually a pretty manageable short rail kick, and that was about the extent of the problem. But still, it took me a while to get used to how to defend it...

If I did decide to bring it out, it was basically if I was frustrated with my break and and was looking at trying to throw a curve at my opponent. When I did it, I was using draw to flatten out the approach angle of the cue ball into the side of the stack.

I stick to the conventional break now because it seems to open the balls better for me.
 

straightback

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Yes Sir I did.

The "why don't the top pros use it" was IMHO an unnecessary jab.
It wasn't a jab - if between 99.99 and 100% of every single break at this year's Derby City Classic (300+ people) is from the side, it seems like one would inquire why that is. I was suggesting that as a counterpoint to the Detroit boys claiming it was so strong that you were disallowed from using it.

In response to this very topic, on Scott Frost's first video, he addresses this break and says that anyone who likes it to give him a call. So, he might be in your line.

Seriously, though, if you can hit it good, go for it. One thing I don't like is that since you're kicking, every table is different, and even the same table can play differently as the humidity changes. Well, that and the balls don't open up worth a flip most of the time...
 
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NH Steve

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I've seen 3 incarnations of this break.

One which freezes you to the side of the head ball.
One which freezes you to the second ball.
And one which hits the second ball and brings the last ball out just a little bit, but not enough to make it.

Guess I'll keep being the dummy who goes against the odds.

Form a line, make a game :)


Steve, do you ever go back to it in practice, to see if you can make it viable, or are you comfortable with the standard break?
I have not used that rail first break for quite a while...
 

chicagomike

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I think it's a nice break when it works out, but I don't see many players using it. I'm not sure about the history, but the standard break seems pretty effective and I think it's just what most people have practiced, we're taught, and learned to trust. I'm glad it works for you and you are confident with using it.

I'll get in line and test you a little at the Derby if you want to use it. I'll break the standard way just to see how things turn out and let you make a few $$ in the process if you can win with it.

Cheers,
Mike
 

androd

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When it first became popular, the rule was CB and another or two balls to the rail. That made it less effective. Surfer Rod used it playing on 4x8's very effectively.
They (whom ever) have now changed the rule to only one ball to the rail and it's much easier to handle.

I used to start at the line to the kitchen, on the rail and aim to bank the CB in my pocket (as if the rack wasn't there) then add reverse English, often worked very well but overall not as effective as my conventional break or Surfers kick.
Can be an advantage when getting weight. Opponent often has to kick first shot.
Rod.
 

u12armresl

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A line on me isn't tough. Ask John, Eric, heck even Junior beat me badly.

Ghost watched me for a few shots and when I asked him why he didn't watch more, he commented that I played awful and he didn't want to watch.


I think it's a nice break when it works out, but I don't see many players using it. I'm not sure about the history, but the standard break seems pretty effective and I think it's just what most people have practiced, we're taught, and learned to trust. I'm glad it works for you and you are confident with using it.

I'll get in line and test you a little at the Derby if you want to use it. I'll break the standard way just to see how things turn out and let you make a few $$ in the process if you can win with it.

Cheers,
Mike
 

chicagomike

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A line on me isn't tough. Ask John, Eric, heck even Junior beat me badly.

Ghost watched me for a few shots and when I asked him why he didn't watch more, he commented that I played awful and he didn't want to watch.
Ok...well I'll see you there. Doesn't matter to me if we do anything more than discuss one pocket among other stuff.
 

straightback

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Also, my apology to Straightback on the way I took his top player comment.
We are good, my friend. I have a heavy streak of sarcasm that might not ways translate, at least not without the use of those damn emoticons.

In retrospect, I could have been more open-minded. Duly noted. Back to your regularly scheduled program.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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A line on me isn't tough. Ask John, Eric, heck even Junior beat me badly.

Ghost watched me for a few shots and when I asked him why he didn't watch more, he commented that I played awful and he didn't want to watch.
I did not say you played awful - the Ghost is more polite than that - I said that you didn't play good enough for me to care to watch anymore...:heh...:D...:sorry

- Ghost
 

petie

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My suggestion would be to do like the rest of us have done. Try that break for a while and see how you like it. Cream will rise to the top.
 

u12armresl

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Thanks Petie.

I know one thing that makes that break difficult, and it will show at the DCC.

New balls, or polished balls, plus new cloth = corner ball sliding out on my break.

I'd love to set up 20 breaks and see where to hit it at, but that would take a ton off my stamina from back issues.

My suggestion would be to do like the rest of us have done. Try that break for a while and see how you like it. Cream will rise to the top.
 
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