R. Martinez vs. E. Reyes 2014 D.C.C.

Cowboy Dennis

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Efren just broke and it's Rafael's shot. What would you do?

P.S. I called Pat Fleming and asked him if he could go back in his time machine and get some more views of this layout. He came through for me:p.


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Martinez Reyes 3.jpg

Martinez Reyes 4.jpg
 

Dudley

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This is the first thing I would look hard at...

Have to hit it strong with the right juice and power to get your rock to the stack--> but could possibly come out well.

The kiss on the rock is a def possibility though.

I avoid do nothing shots unless I have a big moving advantage against my opponent.

Dudley

MR2.jpg
 

daylate$short

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Combo

Combo

It looks to me like the 12 (on the spot) 5 ball combo is sitting pretty well. Stop the cue ball right there. I would NOT want to make the ball!

Martinez%20Reyes%204.jpg

Charlie
 

Frank Almanza

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Nothing fancy here. I would try to line up something in the stack to my hole while doing this.
nothing shot.jpg
 

NH Steve

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Efren just broke and it's Rafael's shot. What would you do?

P.S. I called Pat Fleming and asked him if he could go back in his time machine and get some more views of this layout. He came through for me:p.


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That is really neat that Pat helped you out (or maybe you are kidding, lol) -- but anyway Pat has to really appreciate all the exposure you (Dennis) and OnePocket.org have given Accustats over the last few years -- besides all the videos you have purchased, so if he did help you out, then I definitely understand why.
 

wincardona

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Nothing fancy here. I would try to line up something in the stack to my hole while doing this.
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First I would like to thank Dennis for getting the ideal angle for this and most shots..behind the cue ball.. This angle clears up a lot of stuff, like Charlies 12-5ball combo bank which would be a very good option if it cleared the 8ball, however, to me it looks like it doesn't. Shooting off the 2ball is risky if you try to move balls, unless you can stick whitey on the 11ball and gamble from that position. Franks shot to me looks to be a very viable option because of the other options being so "iffy" probably my choice as well as a few others unless I talk myself into shooting the 2ball and sticking on the 11ball moving balls.:eek:

Bill Incardona
 

Cowboy Dennis

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No reason to leave this up all day. Any sane person can see the several shots available.

Martinez shot the 2 ball 2-rails out of the corner and into the stack, drawing back the cueball to the siderail and then forward to Efren's pocket. I'm guessing he was playing the 2 ball in his pocket.

There's no point in showing all the ball movements in this layout.


rm's shot.jpg


He left it here for Efren:


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one pocket guy

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Do you guys think he was trying to do that , or was he trying to clear out the two balls by the other guys pocket?
 

straightback

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Do you guys think he was trying to do that , or was he trying to clear out the two balls by the other guys pocket?
Creative thinking to draw it and send it back over in front of Efren's hole - maybe he felt like following it might result in a kiss?
 

wincardona

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Creative thinking to draw it and send it back over in front of Efren's hole - maybe he felt like following it might result in a kiss?
Creative thinking to shoot a shot that offered no protection.:sorry

Imo this was a poorly thought out shot that much more often opens up the door for your opponent than it does for the shooter. Martinez showed very little regard for the cue ball, as you can see..and for that reason shots of this kind should be avoided at just about any expense. I call it "throwing your money in the air":sorry

Franks shot was a much better option.;)

Bill Incardona
 

androd

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Do you guys think he was trying to do that , or was he trying to clear out the two balls by the other guys pocket?
I believe he was wanting to hit at least one of the balls. The angle to draw the ball made hitting them very tough.
Rod.
P.S. If he missed them he still had a shot at something good happening, but Alas NOT.
 

wincardona

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Do you guys think he was trying to do that , or was he trying to clear out the two balls by the other guys pocket?
Good question.;)

If he was trying to play the 2ball off the stack he was ..imo..gambling too much in a shot that had very little control, however, I can see his thinking if he was playing the 2ball "two cushions" into the green ball, striking the green ball and only moving the green ball and the 2ball. This shot is a controlled shot that should move both balls safely away from the position referenced a high percentage of the time. However, shooting the 2ball two cushions into the stack is asking a little too much. :eek:

Bill Incardona
 

KindlyOleUncleDave

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From the Peanut Gallery:

From the Peanut Gallery:

The combination bank shot, 12-5 has no need of worry about going into any pocket other than Reyes' on a two rail and that would be iffy at best. The five will leave the first rail having been 'pushed' up-table by the movement of the 12. If shot too hard it might shorten to the point of clipping the 2 or 3 in crossing. Very few short rack rotation players see these aspects of physics; they seldom arise as one optionally ducks before they do. I have watched some of the champions over the years attempt shots from 180 degrees out (what I call contacting the wrong side of the first object ball in an execution train). And they are continually amazed, judging from the expressions on their faces in the moment, when they observe what happens: a miss.

My guess on Rafael's choice of shot would be wild supposition and perhaps not worth spit. While opening the stack for Reyes is never a good idea (unless you make your ball and have a fair run at getting out) perhaps he thought he could bend Einstein and get the 11 to carom in, however using a ball which has acquired angular momentum from contact with two rails would be a chancy way to do it. I would suspect he wished to move a ball out of Reyes' hole and get whitey over there low .

So there you have it.

I'm with Frank.
 

one pocket guy

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My thinking as well Dr. Bill. I hate those combination "clean out" shots unless I hide the cue ball. Too much goes wrong. That's why I never considered that in my first post. I felt the 13(or12?) 5 bank was the right shot. It looked like to me the 5 would catch just enough of the bottom of the stack (or pile as your good friend and compadre Danny D would say) to open a few up and head toward my hole, while freezing the great Efren on the top of the stack. If I'm wrong on my thinking please explain. Thanks in advance your accustats student ,Todd
 

wincardona

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My thinking as well Dr. Bill. I hate those combination "clean out" shots unless I hide the cue ball. Too much goes wrong. That's why I never considered that in my first post. I felt the 13(or12?) 5 bank was the right shot. It looked like to me the 5 would catch just enough of the bottom of the stack (or pile as your good friend and compadre Danny D would say) to open a few up and head toward my hole, while freezing the great Efren on the top of the stack. If I'm wrong on my thinking please explain. Thanks in advance your accustats student ,Todd
You're thinking right when you say that the combo bank 12-5 is a good option (providing the 5ball doesn't bank back into the stack and move the cue ball) it positions a ball near your pocket and locks your opponent up in the stack.

I didn't like the shot only because I felt that the 5ball was going to brush the 8ball and send the 5ball back into the stack and move the cue ball from it's secured position. If that can be avoided then that option becomes a very viable option and possibly the best one because it's effective and simple to execute.

Franks 11ball option doesn't get much done but it does buy a little time which would allow you on your next visit to the table to look at something better. I also see a counter move to Franks option that would be effective and not too difficult to execute..providing you're not frozen to the 6ball.:eek: For those that may be interested in hearing my counter move i'll explain.

Providing you're not frozen to the 6ball you will have the ability to "kick" two cushions to hit the "high side" of the 2ball and send it toward your side where many good things can happen. If you happen to miss the 2ball entirely you will then hit the stack and send balls toward your side sending the cue ball up table near the top right pocket. From there your opponent will be in trouble. This kick imo shoud be struck with a medium speed..not hard not soft..but hard enough to position the cue ball near the top rail. The target for this kick is huge because of the position of the 2ball in relation to the stack. :DTry it.:D

Bill Incardona
 
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