question

wgcp

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Okay, this came up tonight at my house playing. My opponent followed the last ball on the table in my pocket and I now need one and he needs two...
How many of you would duck, and how many of you would shoot both balls at your hole off the spot shot? I will tell you what I did when we get some answers... I have a small wager on "The Doctors" response... or really any other pro...

B
 

jazznpool

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Okay, this came up tonight at my house playing. My opponent followed the last ball on the table in my pocket and I now need one and he needs two...
How many of you would duck, and how many of you would shoot both balls at your hole off the spot shot? I will tell you what I did when we get some answers... I have a small wager on "The Doctors" response... or really any other pro...

B
For hee haw I might play the force/bank on the 2 spotted balls. In a tournament or for dough I'm playing the standard safety with cueball on or close to the backrail close to my opponents pocket and the 2 balls on a more or less diagonal on my side of the table.

Martin
 

One pocket Smitty

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I agree with you for small money I play the back ball 2 rails, for bigger stakes, I play the cue on back rail.--Smitty
 

lll

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if you need 2 balls you play to make the front ball and bank the back ball
"if you are comfortable with and know the shot"
i beleive thats what Dr. bill would say
if you need one ball you play safe
thats my understanding of the "conventional wisdom"
ie aggressive when behind
conservative when ahead
im no pro so take my opinion fwiw
 

NH Steve

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I agree -- light action or needing two, shoot both balls. Tougher situation play safe. Maybe I would still shoot both balls if it had come up when I happened to have recently hit it a few times and was feeling real good about it -- confident with it.
 

wgcp

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answer

answer

I shot the shot to make both balls... I missed the front one to the end rail and made the back one two rails... the spot on the game is 10-6 and has made me realize just how weak my game is... right now I am stuck in this match, and we play at least once a week for any where from 5 to 8 hours a session...

I look at it as lessons, I agree for more money I would probably shoot the safe, even though I feel as though i can make one of the balls about 40% of the time...

Bille

p.s. what I am learning though is just how devastating that can be to an opponent when you come with a shot like that... because of some of the shots made against me... sometimes and I just can't get it out of my mind that you just have to shoot at your hole... but it has cost me and continues to make me learn anger management when I miss...:frus
 

gulfportdoc

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Cardone says to shoot the okey-doke shot every time, with very, very few exceptions, even though his percentage is low.;) Believe it or not, he actually made the shot a couple of times up in Tunica against SVB!!!:D This experience will have been sufficient for him to reinforce his opinion re this shot, and carry it to his grave....

But I'll be over later, and we can set up the various responses to the layout.:) But IMO the two main determining factors on that shot are: the condition of the equipment; and the talent of the opponent.

Doc
 

wincardona

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Cardone says to shoot the okey-doke shot every time, with very, very few exceptions, even though his percentage is low.;) Believe it or not, he actually made the shot a couple of times up in Tunica against SVB!!!:D This experience will have been sufficient for him to reinforce his opinion re this shot, and carry it to his grave....

But I'll be over later, and we can set up the various responses to the layout.:) But IMO the two main determining factors on that shot are: the condition of the equipment; and the talent of the opponent.

Doc
Stop it!!! I have practically dedicated an entire chapter on this situation, on when it's right to shoot this shot. I take you through score of game and ability of opponents, as a criterion to judge the situation.

When I played Shane in Tunica, I wasn't allowed to ...start off playing... the shot, in spite of needing only one ball.:heh

WHAT DOES THAT TELL YOU?

Dr. Bill
 

wgcp

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Didn't remember sitting in that room watching, but he did make you break safe... Makes a lot of sense now...

B
 

androd

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if you need 2 balls you play to make the front ball and bank the back ball
"if you are comfortable with and know the shot"
i beleive thats what Dr. bill would say
if you need one ball you play safe
thats my understanding of the "conventional wisdom"
ie aggressive when behind
conservative when ahead
im no pro so take my opinion fwiw
You're only going to need one in this situation.:)
Rod.
P.S At my level of play and gambling, I try to position the back ball where it'll be hard for my opponent not to leave a bank toward my pocket.
 

tonygreen

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This is a good thread for a poll, because in my opinion this is a shot that comes up ALL the time. I been shooting it since the late 80's and will continue to almost always shoot it.

There is one big caveat the table, depending upon where you are and what you are playing on.

In a humid place you will need a little extra juice or spin. Move to another room different table in a not so humid room and then the shot plays different (you can hit it almost fat).

cheers
 

wgcp

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Larry,
As we age and drink we forget stuff... However, a good 4 hours playing against Gulfport Doc... We broke even... He drank tea... I drank beer... funny how that works...
the shot never came up... I did have a nice couple of run outs though...

Bille
 

One Pocket Ghost

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The playing level of the opponent has been mentioned a few times in the thread as one of the decision factors....but what is probably the most important criteria hasn't been mentioned...

The skill level/make percentage for this shot, of the shooter...for example, I consider myself just average at shooting this two-way shot...but a friend of mine who is a very good One Pocket player, is deadly on this shot - he shoots super-straight so he always hits the front ball perfectly, and he has a great, smooth, powerful stroke, and effortlessly draws the rock 3/4ths of the way back to the bottom rail (his being filipino probably accounts for this skill set :heh) - I would say he either makes one of the balls or leaves one in front of his pocket 90% of the time...consequently, regardless of the bet/importance of the game, he should be choosing to shoot this shot much more readily than I should choose to shoot it.

- Ghost
 

wincardona

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You're only going to need one in this situation.:)
Rod.
P.S At my level of play and gambling, I try to position the back ball where it'll be hard for my opponent not to leave a bank toward my pocket.
Rodney, when two players are playing one another, and they're both good players, Imo it would be in the best interest of the shooter to play the shot. Obviously, the player must feel comfortable playing the shot, or he shouldn't play it. (under ..'just about..' any circumstances) Playing this shot is like playing any other pool shot. You need to develop a feel for the shot in case you need to play it.

I would play the shot against any player who is my speed or higher. Now if I were to play a lesser player whom I could give a couple of balls to, and I needed one ball I would, then play the conservative shot and just out manage him.

Also, tightness of the pockets also has a bearing on the decision. On 4" pockets I would lean "more" on playing the conservative shot, but not necessarily. I like the shot and hit it very good a high percentage of the time, which inspirits me to play the shot more often than I should.

Dr. Bill
 
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1 HOLE NUT

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Time to fill in some blanks!

Time to fill in some blanks!

I'm the other player in Mr. Bille's story and I feel I need to fill in some gaps he left out, so we can get some (yes or no) answers on this EXACT situation. As he said the spot is 10/6, for a small amount per game where I'm ahead alot of games already total, and on the night I was up 6 games when this came up.

He needs 2 I need 1, he puts a ball in his hole, the other ball is in his other corner pocket, this is where I made the wrong shot, I shot his ball in and followed it in, when I should have tried to titty him, or just left him straight and long, and out moved him on the last ball. So now we both need 2, and he plays the 2 balls shot, well he misses both and leaves me a cross bank toward my hole where I make a ball but don't get a out shot so I play safe, at this point, I was thinking that he seen how dangerous that shot can be if you are not accurate with it both with the two balls and the cue ball.

After a couple of innings and some good play by Mr. Bille to get the game to his advantage where HE NEEDS 1 NOW AND I NEED 2, he choses to play the shot again, and he makes the bank ball. I told him that it was the wrong shot, and right when I said it I was so mad that I made the bad shot early in the game to cause this, but I still as though I'm right. We have been playing for about 7 months or so, and we are pushing each other to elevate our one pocket games so when he does something that I think was not smart in my DONKEY opinion, I try to tell him why, then he tries to justify why he thinks it was a good shot, he said and I quote " I feel like I can make a ball 75% of the time so I have to shot it."BULLSHIT, he may know his table, but I'm giving him 10/6(WINNING), and I can't make it 75%, That is where he gets his 40% from because I told him that was more realistic. I am trying to make him a better one pocket player, and when he finally soaks in what I tell him he shows improvement.

I told Mr. Bille to post the situation on here and that 99.5% of pros in the TOTALLY EXACT situation would play the safe shot. I think after almost losing the game on the same shot earlier in the game when you get a ball count advantage you play the 99% more accurate safe shot. I feel like I can ALMOST let Mr. Bille shoot at his hole on the first shot of 1 or 2 ball one pocket, I don't think Shane, and BI are 10/6 apart on one pocket skill level.

So with the rest of the story please give us a yes or no poll on what you would do.
 

tylerdurden

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This is a great topic, it does come up a bunch and has been covered, but I feel I have been playing this wrong all my life now. I have played too conservative from this spot, and my feeling is (at this point) it has cost me some games. I do like to squeeze, but when the guy really had no chance then he sees you do the little bunt safety I think it gives him some heart to get back into the game.... thinking about and watching 2 balls fly toward my hole is no fun for him however. I'm a convert, and I probably don't say/do that enough is the truth.
 

Dudley

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As stated by Billy I and Ghost,

Choosing this shot really depends on how well you can hit it. If you are guessing than it's not worth the risk of selling out... However, if you know you should hit it well--> swing at it.

I practiced the shot a little the other day and was getting the head ball to roll right in the hole. So my confidence is up. I'm shooting it. :D

Dudley
 
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