Question, need help

John Brumback

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I'm making a speed chart,mainly for banks.So I can say "hit this shot with number 4 speed" and so on.My ? Is how many different numbers should there be on one chart,or scale? I'm thinking around 10.
Maybe just 5 or maybe 7.Maybe 40,I don't know.what do ya'll think? Ideas?
Thanks bankin dudes.John B.
 

sappo

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Speed Chart

Speed Chart

Hi John, Keith here. Ive been working on my own speed chart recently for long table banks. I dont play bank pool but i play alot of one pocket, therefore i dont use "very hard" speed banks. At least not yet. What ive come up with is 3 main speeds. They are : Pocket speed, Plus 1/2 speed and Plus 1 speed. I quantify these 3 speeds in the following way. Obviously pocket speed banks the ball to just roll into the pocket. Plus 1/2 speed has the speed where if i miss the bank the ball will roll back up the table 4 diamonds or 1/2 table. Plus 1 speed if missed will have the ball roll back up the table 8 diamonds or 1 full table length. Going foward I would move ahead to Plus 2 speed, which would if missed have the object ball roll up and back down the table or run 2 table lengths beyond the intended pocket.
i like classifing the speed this way because its easy to understand and its easy for others to understand exactly what your doing. I hope this helps. keith
 

Pelican

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I recall a speed drill Scott Lee showed us several years ago. He had 4 speeds. All start with the cueball one diamond from the head rail.

1. The poof shot. Cueball to wind up within one diamond of the foot rail.

2. Lag speed. Self explanatory, end up at head rail.

3. Medium speed. Head rail to foot rail and back to within one diamond of head rail.

4. Hard speed. Head rail to foot rail to head rail and back to within one diamond of foot rail.

One I had the hardest time with was the poof shot.

Like sappo said you could add variations by having the cueball fall within one diamond either side of the center pockets.

I think that by learning stroke control as it applies to speed using only the cueball it removes variances that inconsistant hits on an object ball would cause. For instance, if I tutored under JohnB (God, I wish I could) and he used a method like this to teach me speed of hit, then when a shot came up and he told me to use #4 speed, I would know that if he had taught me that #4 speed made the CB travel 'X' lengths of the table I would, hopefully, be able to shoot the shot with the correct speed of hit that I had learned. Does this make any sense? Heck, I'm old and I confuse easy.

Later, Pel
 
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blackeee

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John Brumback said:
I'm making a speed chart,mainly for banks.So I can say "hit this shot with number 4 speed" and so on.My ? Is how many different numbers should there be on one chart,or scale? I'm thinking around 10.
Maybe just 5 or maybe 7.Maybe 40,I don't know.what do ya'll think? Ideas?
Thanks bankin dudes.John B.
I don't think anybod here could give you any advice regarding banks John.;)
 

John Brumback

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Thanks guys

Thanks guys

Think I've got It.I'm going to use both of these combined.I have heard of both of these scales.Guess that's what I'll use then.Thanks again,John B.
 

onepocket926

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...only one speed....

...only one speed....

John Brumback said:
I'm making a speed chart,mainly for banks.So I can say "hit this shot with number 4 speed" and so on.My ? Is how many different numbers should there be on one chart,or scale? I'm thinking around 10.
Maybe just 5 or maybe 7.Maybe 40,I don't know.what do ya'll think? Ideas?
Thanks bankin dudes.John B.
...the only speed to hit any shot with.....is the speed it takes to make the object ball and get "whitey"...where ya want it to go.....every table is different....nap of the cloth...condition of the rails...humidity....English....and about 10,000 other variables .....:D
 

John Brumback

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onepocket926 said:
...the only speed to hit any shot with.....is the speed it takes to make the object ball and get "whitey"...where ya want it to go.....every table is different....nap of the cloth...condition of the rails...humidity....English....and about 10,000 other variables .....:D
Oh ok,Thanks.John B.
 

fred bentivegna

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Three speeds

Three speeds

I covered this speed thing pretty thoroughly in my books and DVDs. I hold that you can limit your speed options to three categories, (1)slow or easy,(2) firm or medium, and (3) hard. This simplifies things considerably. However, you must first consider speed to be relative to the situation. ie., rolling a cross side in at an easy pocket speed requires much less power that rolling a straight back in at an easy pocket speed because of the increase in distance. If you concede the relativity, than you can keep working with a three speed concept.

Beard
 

SactownTom

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George Fels wrote in one of his early pool books, that there were over 20 different and definable speeds.

Banking may have a lot less.

Lag speed from headstring and back to the rail is a definable speed for a distance of approximately 16 feet.

Break speed (for 8, 9 and 10) (hard for a pro is so different than hard for the amatures) amatures speed may be a very hard 16 mph and a pros low speed (but still hard, is 20 mph)

I like Fred's speed approach. Letting the player judge for themselves how the speed relates to the shot(s) and that a cross side pocket speed with the cue ball staying close to the rail being used for the bank and that of full table bank requiring pocket speed with the cue ball staying near the rail being used for the bank. Same result, different speeds but still in the 'slow and easy' speed category.
 

usblues

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Mercy

Mercy

Believe 926 comes close with less is more[words].Hard center-ball makes 80-90%of my banks,but Im a light-weight,cheers,B.Pardone,I mean its what I use 80-90% of the time.I damn sure dont make 80-90% of my banks or I'd be in tournaments,cheers
 
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John Brumback

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usblues said:
Believe 926 comes close with less is more[words].Hard center-ball makes 80-90%of my banks,but Im a light-weight,cheers,B.Pardone,I mean its what I use 80-90% of the time.I damn sure dont make 80-90% of my banks or I'd be in tournaments,cheers
That's a good way to hit most banks but I think that % Is a little high IMO.
Ba a bad ass If ya could make 80 or 90 % Uh?LOL John B.
 

usblues

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strawberry fields

strawberry fields

It is a little high Mr B.,but being a hippie,tie-dyed,Nam Vet I like to exaggerate as much as possible.I will say in all seriousness it was my extreme pleasure to play a world class cat for about 15 years about 20 hours a week.He was so strong I couldnt play him 9,8 ball etc. cause all I did was rack.All we played was banks or 1-P so I could shoot occasionally.He did use alot of hard centerball as I remember but of course it was fun to watch him throw shots also.I have a few of your tapes/DVD's and its a pleasure to watch you hit em,cheers,Bob
 

Pelican

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usblues said:
.I damn sure dont make 80-90% of my banks or I'd be in tournaments,cheers
Hey usblues, I wouldn't be in tournaments, I'd be makin' a good living on the road :D

Later, Pel
 

John Brumback

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usblues said:
It is a little high Mr B.,but being a hippie,tie-dyed,Nam Vet I like to exaggerate as much as possible.I will say in all seriousness it was my extreme pleasure to play a world class cat for about 15 years about 20 hours a week.He was so strong I couldnt play him 9,8 ball etc. cause all I did was rack.All we played was banks or 1-P so I could shoot occasionally.He did use alot of hard centerball as I remember but of course it was fun to watch him throw shots also.I have a few of your tapes/DVD's and its a pleasure to watch you hit em,cheers,Bob
Hey Hippie(I like hippies) Who would that cat be? Rat martin?
"World class cat" I like that.Thanks,John B.
 

usblues

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1987

1987

Hey John B.,if you remember the 1987 Steve Gumphrey Memorial Tournament down in Missisippi[sp] or Louisiana,there's a picture of all the players who were in it.My friend is in the back row towards the middle.I think Buddy H. or that real good bar box player from Louisiana won it.Hey Pelican you must be a younger fellow to pick the road over tournaments.More money,yes,but the hassles,oh man.......ah well,its all good.......cheers,B
 

Pelican

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Naw USBlues, I be an old phart. Just think that the road would be a LOT more fun. :D

Pel
 

usblues

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phart

phart

Ya Pel,your right about that,a young mans game though,I dont know how some of them geezers like us still keep on keepin on with the running around.More power to them.I wish I still had the juice but I done gave it all I had. Good talking with ya,B
 

Warren

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Hey John B., Warren Carter here, my first post on here is in answer to your question on speed. I think most shots call for just a good solid stroke (average) to pocket balls cleanly. Easy shots are sometime powder puffed by average players who shoot to softly and allow an easy shot to roll off on some tables or to float wide. While others slam balls thinking they are confident of the shot only to see it come up short.
I have noticed that many players faced with a hard shot usually shoot hard for some reason. Hard shot, shoot hard, If it were only that easy. Ha ha!!!
I have seen many shots missed by shooting the ball at the wrong speed. So I agree with your thoughts that a guide would benefit players. But it's hard to tell someone the exact speed for their stroke or style.
Some guys even use the old swing stroke which over induces English on the ball. Such as Joe Coomer who use to use the swing stroke. For those who didn't know Joe he was a local from Versailles, Ky. Joe passed last year. RIP JOE. While other like you self use the closer to center cue ball idea for playing. Big variances in styles make for problems with a chart.
I do think making a speed chart is good, but very hard to make one chart that would help all players. My point being I think each player shoots differently and therefore They need to determine at what speed they shoot each shot. My reasoning is that not all players hit each shot the same(English wise), there fore what works for one player doesn't necessarily work for another. Speed defiantly is proportionate to English in most shots.
So you would have an equation of S+CE=MS or Speed + Correct English= Made Shot
As you know I am not a great pool player and don't profess to be. But I am a fair bank player and have enjoyed playing all my life. I love bank pool!!! And watching great players like yourself play the game.
It's guys like you who put a smile on my face when I see a fellow player I have personally played locally go to the DCC and kick ass.
Just my opinion John, your friend Warren.
 

John Brumback

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Warren said:
Hey John B., Warren Carter here, my first post on here is in answer to your question on speed. I think most shots call for just a good solid stroke (average) to pocket balls cleanly. Easy shots are sometime powder puffed by average players who shoot to softly and allow an easy shot to roll off on some tables or to float wide. While others slam balls thinking they are confident of the shot only to see it come up short.
I have noticed that many players faced with a hard shot usually shoot hard for some reason. Hard shot, shoot hard, If it were only that easy. Ha ha!!!
I have seen many shots missed by shooting the ball at the wrong speed. So I agree with your thoughts that a guide would benefit players. But it's hard to tell someone the exact speed for their stroke or style.
Some guys even use the old swing stroke which over induces English on the ball. Such as Joe Coomer who use to use the swing stroke. For those who didn't know Joe he was a local from Versailles, Ky. Joe passed last year. RIP JOE. While other like you self use the closer to center cue ball idea for playing. Big variances in styles make for problems with a chart.
I do think making a speed chart is good, but very hard to make one chart that would help all players. My point being I think each player shoots differently and therefore They need to determine at what speed they shoot each shot. My reasoning is that not all players hit each shot the same(English wise), there fore what works for one player doesn't necessarily work for another. Speed defiantly is proportionate to English in most shots.
So you would have an equation of S+CE=MS or Speed + Correct English= Made Shot
As you know I am not a great pool player and don't profess to be. But I am a fair bank player and have enjoyed playing all my life. I love bank pool!!! And watching great players like yourself play the game.
It's guys like you who put a smile on my face when I see a fellow player I have personally played locally go to the DCC and kick ass.
Just my opinion John, your friend Warren.
Howdy neighbor,Boy,Warren,I didn't know you were so smart! It's a wonder I won that set there a few years ago upstairs.LOL Good to have your smarts here and real good points you brought up to.Jump In and have fun.Glad your here.And thanks for the Info,It was very good,and right!!! Yes,speed Is key on most banks.Yes you do play good.thanks,WC,John B.
 

Warren

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John Brumback said:
Howdy neighbor,Boy,Warren,I didn't know you were so smart! It's a wonder I won that set there a few years ago upstairs.LOL Good to have your smarts here and real good points you brought up to.Jump In and have fun.Glad your here.And thanks for the Info,It was very good,and right!!! Yes,speed Is key on most banks.Yes you do play good.thanks,WC,John B.

Simp, Bless his soul, gave you a heads up on my abilities. Why I don't know. I thought he was a good friend, didn't figure him to tell you not to leave me a bank in a one pocket game. At least I made the banks you left me. I am not a one pocket player. Anyway win or loose I enjoyed playing you, and hope to again. Just not one pocket. I would enjoy some practice matches with you playing bank. I will come to your place to play anytime you need some one different to beat up on. I'm sure Casey and the guys get tired of racking for you. Anytime Warren
 
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