Question About Spot

Fast Lenny

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What would you guys say the hit and the pick is worth or the hit and 2 picks? I gave up this spot recently and also received it and was curious to what it equaled. I would take a guess and say 9-7 is close for the hit and the pick and 9-6 for the hit and 2 picks. Also if you give this spot does the player rotate pockets each break and if they make a ball on the break do they keep shooting? Curious as to what you think. :)
 

sappo

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Big Weight

Big Weight

Lenny, ive given the hit and pick and felt it was about equal to 9-7. never gave or received hit and 2 picks but i think its certainly worth more than just 1 additional ball over the hit and pick. Its a double spot in a way just your opponent gets the exta ball but now he also gets to take away some of your position with the 2nd pick. so my feelings iit woth more than 9-6. As far as from what side your opponent breaks from, that should be decide before the match. Sappo
 

Fast Lenny

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sappo said:
Lenny, ive given the hit and pick and felt it was about equal to 9-7. never gave or received hit and 2 picks but i think its certainly worth more than just 1 additional ball over the hit and pick. Its a double spot in a way just your opponent gets the exta ball but now he also gets to take away some of your position with the 2nd pick. so my feelings iit woth more than 9-6. As far as from what side your opponent breaks from, that should be decide before the match. Sappo
Thanks and I was curious about if the guy makes a ball on the break if he should still keep shooting or not, perhaps that should be spoken on beforehand. :confused:
 

wincardona

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Fast Lenny said:
What would you guys say the hit and the pick is worth or the hit and 2 picks? I gave up this spot recently and also received it and was curious to what it equaled. I would take a guess and say 9-7 is close for the hit and the pick and 9-6 for the hit and 2 picks. Also if you give this spot does the player rotate pockets each break and if they make a ball on the break do they keep shooting? Curious as to what you think. :)
The hit and the pick is worth between 10/7-- 11/7 imo.

The answer to your question about, should the breaker make a ball on the break and keep shooting. Of course he keeps shooting, but the more important question should be, does he pick his ball, or balls before or after he shoots? That rule should be established before the game starts. I have played it both ways, and there isn't any clearly understood way.

Should the breaker switch pockets every other break? He should, but once again that rule also should be made before the game begins.

Billy I.
 

Fast Lenny

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wincardona said:
The hit and the pick is worth between 10/7-- 11/7 imo.

The answer to your question about, should the breaker make a ball on the break and keep shooting. Of course he keeps shooting, but the more important question should be, does he pick his ball, or balls before or after he shoots? That rule should be established before the game starts. I have played it both ways, and there isn't any clearly understood way.

Should the breaker switch pockets every other break? He should, but once again that rule also should be made before the game begins.

Billy I.
Thanks Billy. I got this spot recently and when I told the guy he said "You break and take 2 balls off the table and then its my shot." . I made a ball on the break and was going to keep shooting but he said what that its his shot after I break so I did not argue it as it was our agreement. I will be careful next time to get all the stuff right before hand because it is a big difference as I made a ball 3-4 times in about 8 hours or so.

I also kept breaking to the same side because we did not talk about switching pockets which helped me. Would the kick break (sucker break) be a good break to use for this spot if your freezing the rock on the stack and not playing where you make a ball on the break and keep shooting? I would think it would be because if you sell out the corner ball you can remove it but your opponent is frozen with balls scattered by your pocket.
 

fred bentivegna

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Common way to play it

Common way to play it

Hit and the pick was invented and played exclusively in Chicago for years. Billy I's 10-7 11-7 is about right, but you can also compare it to 8 to 6 and the break, whereby hit & pick is actually a little stronger.

Whenever you get the break, it was common knowledge when I played, that you had to switch pockets every game. Breaking to the same side was considered extra spot. If you made a ball on the break you would keep shooting, but you would be required to pick your ball at the END of your inning, not before. Again, picking before you shoot after making one on the break, could be negotiated, but it would also be considered extra spot.

The best break is the usual, conventional one. That gives you the best chance to make one on the break. The only thing you might do differently would be to break a little harder than normal, knowing that you could pick up the corner ball if it rolls in front of your oppo's pocket.

Playing on a soft pocket table, or one with a big pocket bias, it's a monster spot. At one point in my career I gave up giving out that spot entirely.
Playing out of a defensive position all the time makes it very difficult to break your oppo down. No matter how heroic or disheartening your last win might have been, your oppo always has a reason to recover because he is always getting an opportunity to go back on offense off of a strong break.

Beard
 

fred bentivegna

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Not proportional

Not proportional

Fast Lenny said:
So what would you say the hit and 2 picks is equal to? :)
It doesnt necessarily go up proportionately. 10 to 6 and the break is probably close. 11 to 6 break apiece is pretty close also. (You are getting 11 to 6 and the break every other game)

Beard
 

73DRVR

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One Hit & The Pick

One Hit & The Pick

Hi Lenny,
As a rule that spot is very difficult to put in to perspective. I find that it is usually utilized by top players only. These players are able to assimilate it in to their opponents game. Frost gave Billy "one hit and the pick" at the Derby 3 years ago at a time when Scott could give Billy 9-6 and 'get there'. Billy is no mug and books losses less frequently than most players. He felt comfortable with "one hit and the pick". It depends on how good the opponent consistently breaks and how astute they are at picking the right ball. The spot might be worth 9-7 against one player, 9-8 against another, 9-6 against somebody else. The top players consider it a sophisticated spot and it should only be utilized be people who's knowledge can put it in to perspective. I for one am not able to assimilate it for gambling off the rail and would not touch it. Ask Scott and see what he says I am willing to bet he will say 9-7 but remember that number is 'elastic'. By the time you add 2 or 3 picks in to the equation you are in to a nebulous area. My advice to you is leave it alone and stick with what you understand fully, especially when the cheese is on the line. Regards Geoff.
 

73DRVR

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One Hit & The Pick

One Hit & The Pick

Hi Lenny,
That's a sophisticated spot and I for one won't touch it for gambling off the rail. The top players use it the most and are the best at assimilating it in to their opponents game. It could be worth 9-7 to one player and 9-8 to somebody else and 9-6 to yet another player. It all depends on how good that player consistently breaks and how astute they are at picking the right ball. I remember at the DCC three years ago Scott gave Billy one hit and the pick at a time when Scott could give Billy 9-6. Billy is no mug and books losses less frequently than other players! Yet he felt happy with 'one hit and the pick'. By the time you add 2 or 3 picks you are in to a nebulous area and you better know what you are doing! Scott is probably the best in the world at handicapping his own game. Ask Scott the next time you see him, I bet he says 9-7 but remember that number is elastic. The old adage "a little knowledge is dangerous" applies with 'one hit and the pick' my advice is leave it for the top players. Regards Geoff
 
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