Playing the percentages

John Brumback

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androd said:
I think he may be talking about Bumping the table with some hefty part of his body and trying to unlevel or change the way the table rolls. I have in my younger days picked the table up and moved it a little, if it was a big advantage for my opponent. Rarely though. :)
Rod.
Would that be called...slight cheating or Is that lightl sharking or,well..? I might be mixed up.LOL I aint Invitin you 2 over to my house anytime soon.JK ya'll wouldn't really do that,would you?John B.
 

androd

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Not to you Skipper. ;)
Rod.
PS. I'm probably too weary to do that nowadays.
 

bstroud

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3RAILKICK said:
Bill-

I am pretty sure the 'bolded phrase' above is probably well understood by most that post here.

I am not familiar with what you will accomplish by 'bumping it hard' to improve how the table rolls. Are you shooting hard into the rails to return them to a natural springy-ness? Sorry-but I'm just kind of clueless about this stuff.

I know there is another 'bumping it hard' concept, but I don't think that's what you're talking about.

Thanks
I am talking about bumping the table hard with my hip. Enough to change the way it rolls. It doesn't take much to change the roll. Again, anything you can do to minimize a home court advantage is fair game. One of the best moves I ever saw was the toothpick trick.

Bill Stroud
 

bstroud

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wincardona said:
Billy I like your mindset but i'm talking about shots that vary in degree of difficulty. When to shoot as opposed to when not to shoot is the problem we all face, including yourself. Many times I have been down significantly in the score playing one pocket and a shot came up that I wouldn't consider shooting if the score was even, but if I make it I would get back in the game or possibly win the game. You must factor in the approx. odds of winning the game if you don't shoot the shot, then take a look at the degree of difficulty of the shot. If the shot carries a high degree of difficulty like a 25% success rate which would equate to 3/1 against making the shot and the degree of difficulty winning the game if you don't take the shot is 10% which equates to 10/1 then you should shoot the shot. That's an easy choice, but you will be confronted with tougher choices on when to and when not to shoot in the future, and it's up to us to figure when the right time is to shoot.:)

Billy I.
Billy,

I agree with you on the shot evaluation part but once you make a decision you must commit 100% to the shot and forget about the percentages.

Bill Stroud
 

fred bentivegna

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Toothpick or straight pin?

Toothpick or straight pin?

bstroud said:
I am talking about bumping the table hard with my hip. Enough to change the way it rolls. It doesn't take much to change the roll. Again, anything you can do to minimize a home court advantage is fair game. One of the best moves I ever saw was the toothpick trick.

Bill Stroud

George Walker was a southern boy, and owner of the big-time action bar, The Stardust Lounge on North Ave. in Chicago in the 60s. Winning in George's bar was no mean feat. George would do anything he could to beat you when you played in his bar. He would shark you, doctor up the chalk ( soak the chalk in chemicals and then bake it in an oven), put pins under the cloth by the pocket to divert a softly hit ball, tush-hog you, and if you drank anything, "Jar" you. Move the table if you went to the bathroom, but my favorite involved his wife Chris. George, had a country-girl wife. Her name was Chris, and she was one of the sexiest creatures alive. She wore mini-skirts when there was no such thing. She would be sitting in a chair, watching the game in her mini, sans panties. If you had a tough shot, and were facing her, at the moment you were delivering the stroke, her legs would open and she would flash you. It may have bothered some players, but I would actually play position to get hit with the flash.

There was a top player from Flint, MI named Harry "Poochie" Sexton. He had a pock-marked face, and was no raving beauty. He was credited with having an oversized love member, and he lived with George for awhile. It was rumored that he had gotten lucky with Chris. I was never more jealous of anybody in my whole life. Tragically, Chris was later murdered by George's lunatic brother, Lonnie.

Beard
 

bstroud

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Freddy,

Iknew George. He was one of a group of tush hogs from W. Virginia.
They were the most brutal people I have ever met.

First time I went into his bar he recognized me from somewhere and wanted to go in with me to beat his bartender. What a guy.

Bad as he was he didn't come close to a tush in Baltimore. Crowbar. He was so crazy he would kill people just for looking at him wrong. I was in Vinces one night and Crowbar came in and wanted to use the pay phone. A young kid was talking to his girlfriend and when he didn't get off Crowbar beat him to near death and then dragged him outside and laid him on the railrood tracks behind the bar. Someone went across the street and called the cops. The kid would be dead if they didn't.

Bill Stroud
 

wincardona

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bstroud said:
Billy,

I agree with you on the shot evaluation part but once you make a decision you must commit 100% to the shot and forget about the percentages.

Bill Stroud
Correcto, even though it's off topic it's certainly the way winners play.Players that commit 100% to every shot they shoot will win even when they have a bad game.:eek: I think.;)

Billy I.
 

petie

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fred bentivegna said:
George Walker was a southern boy, and owner of the big-time action bar, The Stardust Lounge on North Ave. in Chicago in the 60s. Winning in George's bar was no mean feat. George would do anything he could to beat you when you played in his bar. He would shark you, doctor up the chalk ( soak the chalk in chemicals and then bake it in an oven), put pins under the cloth by the pocket to divert a softly hit ball, tush-hog you, and if you drank anything, "Jar" you. Move the table if you went to the bathroom, but my favorite involved his wife Chris. George, had a country-girl wife. Her name was Chris, and she was one of the sexiest creatures alive. She wore mini-skirts when there was no such thing. She would be sitting in a chair, watching the game in her mini, sans panties. If you had a tough shot, and were facing her, at the moment you were delivering the stroke, her legs would open and she would flash you. It may have bothered some players, but I would actually play position to get hit with the flash.

There was a top player from Flint, MI named Harry "Poochie" Sexton. He had a pock-marked face, and was no raving beauty. He was credited with having an oversized love member, and he lived with George for awhile. It was rumored that he had gotten lucky with Chris. I was never more jealous of anybody in my whole life. Tragically, Chris was later murdered by George's lunatic brother, Lonnie.

Beard
I ran with Harry for a couple of years. The first time I ever saw him shake off his whiz it looked to me like one of these...
http://www.shootingshop.com/products/duck-call-1794.aspx
 

fred bentivegna

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Poochie and George Walker

Poochie and George Walker

Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
George Walker was a southern boy, and owner of the big-time action bar, The Stardust Lounge on North Ave. in Chicago in the 60s. Winning in George's bar was no mean feat. George would do anything he could to beat you when you played in his bar. He would shark you, doctor up the chalk ( soak the chalk in chemicals and then bake it in an oven), put pins under the cloth by the pocket to divert a softly hit ball, tush-hog you, and if you drank anything, "Jar" you. Move the table if you went to the bathroom, but my favorite involved his wife Chris. George, had a country-girl wife. Her name was Chris, and she was one of the sexiest creatures alive. She wore mini-skirts when there was no such thing. She would be sitting in a chair, watching the game in her mini, sans panties. If you had a tough shot, and were facing her, at the moment you were delivering the stroke, her legs would open and she would flash you. It may have bothered some players, but I would actually play position to get hit with the flash.

There was a top player from Flint, MI named Harry "Poochie" Sexton. He had a pock-marked face, and was no raving beauty. He was credited with having an oversized love member, and he lived with George for awhile. It was rumored that he had gotten lucky with Chris. I was never more jealous of anybody in my whole life. Tragically, Chris was later murdered by George's lunatic brother, Lonnie.

Beard


petie said:
I ran with Harry for a couple of years. The first time I ever saw him shake off his whiz it looked to me like one of these...
http://www.shootingshop.com/products/duck-call-1794.aspx
Now, before some old-timer emerges from the grave to dispute one of my pool "beats," I had better first make a confession. I have Harry "Poochie" Sexton on my "beat list," but he is the only guy that should have an asterisk in front of his name. I didn't actually come out ahead at the end of the session. I actually went broke -- but there were extenuating circumstances. Poochie and I were playing banks at the open-all-night, Star Bowl in Hammond IN. The infamous George Walker was staking Poochie. I was pounding on the Pooch man pretty good when the devious Walker sent out for coffee. He innocently asked me if I would like one. I had been up all night and I was dying for coffee but I of course refused, with a thank you, no.

I knew all too well, George's reputation for "Jarring" players, but I had a strategic plan. When the coffee arrrived I would beg for some of his. George however, was a much better stategist than I, because he apparently had forseen my objection, and had anticipated a request from me when the batch arrived. He took a sip of his large coffee -- or so I thought -- and then he innocently asked me, "Ah caint drink this 'hole thing, Freedy. Ya wont half?" I smuggly agreed. He poured half of his coffee for me in a glass I had procured. I downed it all with gusto. But sure enough, he had doctored his own cup with scopopolomine (Jar) knowing I would weaken and take some of it.

The outcome? Predictable. The object balls became moving targets. I was seeing double and triple. I couldnt make a ball in the ocean. I lost back all that I was ahead and went bust. The worst thing about the Jar is that no matter how bad you're playing, you still feel good and cant quit as long as you have money to play.

So, to my way of thinking, since I was comfortably ahead before the Jar, I count it as a "win," and added Poochie into the "beat" list. With an asterisk now, of course.

Beard
 

vapros

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Freddie, I would bet the rent that you qualified for his beat list, as well, in the same session. Looks to me like a standoff, with no asterisk. You're stretching your credibility much too far. My own beat list could include a lot of people I would have beaten easily, except for all those shots they made. Long line of asterisks on mine.

As for you, Petie, for cryin' out loud that was a duck call in that picture! The possibilities for that on this forum are myriad, outrageous and hilarious. I would not touch this with a cue with a screw-on tip. :D :D

Brace yourself, SJD.
 

petie

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vapros said:
Freddie, I would bet the rent that you qualified for his beat list, as well, in the same session. Looks to me like a standoff, with no asterisk. You're stretching your credibility much too far. My own beat list could include a lot of people I would have beaten easily, except for all those shots they made. Long line of asterisks on mine.

As for you, Petie, for cryin' out loud that was a duck call in that picture! The possibilities for that on this forum are myriad, outrageous and hilarious. I would not touch this with a cue with a screw-on tip. :D :D

Brace yourself, SJD.
Ya, I didn't think of that until I had already posted it. I really did think of one of those type of duck calls. When you shake them, they get all wobbley and long at the end of the accordian tubing. I'm not sure what to do with the possibilities.
 

petie

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fred bentivegna said:
Originally Posted by fred bentivegna
George Walker was a southern boy, and owner of the big-time action bar, The Stardust Lounge on North Ave. in Chicago in the 60s. Winning in George's bar was no mean feat. George would do anything he could to beat you when you played in his bar. He would shark you, doctor up the chalk ( soak the chalk in chemicals and then bake it in an oven), put pins under the cloth by the pocket to divert a softly hit ball, tush-hog you, and if you drank anything, "Jar" you. Move the table if you went to the bathroom, but my favorite involved his wife Chris. George, had a country-girl wife. Her name was Chris, and she was one of the sexiest creatures alive. She wore mini-skirts when there was no such thing. She would be sitting in a chair, watching the game in her mini, sans panties. If you had a tough shot, and were facing her, at the moment you were delivering the stroke, her legs would open and she would flash you. It may have bothered some players, but I would actually play position to get hit with the flash.

There was a top player from Flint, MI named Harry "Poochie" Sexton. He had a pock-marked face, and was no raving beauty. He was credited with having an oversized love member, and he lived with George for awhile. It was rumored that he had gotten lucky with Chris. I was never more jealous of anybody in my whole life. Tragically, Chris was later murdered by George's lunatic brother, Lonnie.

Beard




Now, before some old-timer emerges from the grave to dispute one of my pool "beats," I had better first make a confession. I have Harry "Poochie" Sexton on my "beat list," but he is the only guy that should have an asterisk in front of his name. I didn't actually come out ahead at the end of the session. I actually went broke -- but there were extenuating circumstances. Poochie and I were playing banks at the open-all-night, Star Bowl in Hammond IN. The infamous George Walker was staking Poochie. I was pounding on the Pooch man pretty good when the devious Walker sent out for coffee. He innocently asked me if I would like one. I had been up all night and I was dying for coffee but I of course refused, with a thank you, no.

I knew all too well, George's reputation for "Jarring" players, but I had a strategic plan. When the coffee arrrived I would beg for some of his. George however, was a much better stategist than I, because he apparently had forseen my objection, and had anticipated a request from me when the batch arrived. He took a sip of his large coffee -- or so I thought -- and then he innocently asked me, "Ah caint drink this 'hole thing, Freedy. Ya wont half?" I smuggly agreed. He poured half of his coffee for me in a glass I had procured. I downed it all with gusto. But sure enough, he had doctored his own cup with scopopolomine (Jar) knowing I would weaken and take some of it.

The outcome? Predictable. The object balls became moving targets. I was seeing double and triple. I couldnt make a ball in the ocean. I lost back all that I was ahead and went bust. The worst thing about the Jar is that no matter how bad you're playing, you still feel good and cant quit as long as you have money to play.

So, to my way of thinking, since I was comfortably ahead before the Jar, I count it as a "win," and added Poochie into the "beat" list. With an asterisk now, of course.

Beard
Harry was famous for his 9 ball game but he could bank. He once ran 20 some after running 100 in straight pool. He had already won the money and just continued shooting all banks for a rack and a half or so.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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fred bentivegna said:
Now, before some old-timer emerges from the grave to dispute one of my pool "beats," I had better first make a confession. I have Harry "Poochie" Sexton on my "beat list," but he is the only guy that should have an asterisk in front of his name. I didn't actually come out ahead at the end of the session. I actually went broke -- but there were extenuating circumstances. Poochie and I were playing banks at the open-all-night, Star Bowl in Hammond IN.


Beard
Well since you posted your "Poochie" beat story I'm going to post mine. It's much less interesting but it's all I have:p .

I beat him twice to knock him out of a local, monthly 9-Ball tourney. I played good and he made a couple of mistakes and it just went my way. The next night or two found us in the same poolroom and I asked him to play some more (He never asked anyone to play that I recall). He asked what kind of weight I wanted and I told him I'd play him even since I beat him even but I would only play for $20 per set. He agreed and we started playing. I think he won the first set 7-1, the second 7-3 and the third 7-1. I was having a great time watching him break (hurt my ears) and runout:) .

I knew I was paying him to play me and it was fun. After the third set I told him that I didn't mind losing more money but it would be nice if he'd adjust a little. He had only missed a couple of balls in three sets and I still figured to keep losing but I didn't care. He got that hangdog look and kind of looked down at the floor and said "I might be able to give you the last two". I started laughing and said "Do you think?". I asked for the wild 8 and he refused and we never played again.

That's how Harry got on my beat list but it's also how I got on his:D .

Dennis
 

Fast Lenny

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I think the score is important along with percentages. One thing I know is that a low percentage shot that will lose me the game is just idiotic, but a low percentage shot that can win me the game especially if I am behind is something I cannot pass up.

I see people take on low percentage shots where they lose the game if they miss it with no real gain if they make it other than that one ball. I think in my mind, I can get 1 ball here or 2 but I am giving up 4-5 balls, I do not like that math and will pass on it unless my back is to the wall, sometimes the safe shot is just as difficult as pocketing the ball.

There are times I might take on a tough cut but it has natural shape or something to that affect on the honey hole where there are several balls waiting for me, I try to give it my all on the shot, even if I miss I know it was the right shot. I guess you just gotta know when to go and when to pass. Its kind of like when you have a ball hanging but will only get that one ball, you trap the guy up protecting that ball waiting for a more opportune time to utilize that ball to win the game or take a solid lead.
 
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Jimmy B

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Well since you posted your "Poochie" beat story I'm going to post mine. It's much less interesting but it's all I have:p .

I beat him twice to knock him out of a local, monthly 9-Ball tourney. I played good and he made a couple of mistakes and it just went my way. The next night or two found us in the same poolroom and I asked him to play some more (He never asked anyone to play that I recall). He asked what kind of weight I wanted and I told him I'd play him even since I beat him even but I would only play for $20 per set. He agreed and we started playing. I think he won the first set 7-1, the second 7-3 and the third 7-1. I was having a great time watching him break (hurt my ears) and runout:) .

I knew I was paying him to play me and it was fun. After the third set I told him that I didn't mind losing more money but it would be nice if he'd adjust a little. He had only missed a couple of balls in three sets and I still figured to keep losing but I didn't care. He got that hangdog look and kind of looked down at the floor and said "I might be able to give you the last two". I started laughing and said "Do you think?". I asked for the wild 8 and he refused and we never played again.

That's how Harry got on my beat list but it's also how I got on his:D .

Dennis


That's a good story. Most people would have talked about beating him in the tournament and then left off about the three sets and the scores in the other sets, or they would have said that he beat me a set later 7-6 or something like that. I admire that. It has the ring of total truth to it, and if Harry refused to give you the eight, that says a lot about how well you could play nine ball.........
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Jimmy B said:
That's a good story. Most people would have talked about beating him in the tournament and then left off about the three sets and the scores in the other sets, or they would have said that he beat me a set later 7-6 or something like that. I admire that. It has the ring of total truth to it, and if Harry refused to give you the eight, that says a lot about how well you could play nine ball.........
JB,

He would've beat me anyway I think but I was going to donate as long as he kept playing. I just wanted to have a %25 chance of winning 4 or 5 games in a set, that's all. I still figured to lose.

Harry was a very nice guy to be around and he was kind of quiet too. I think at the time we played he had just gone through chemo for some type of cancer that he had. I believe he had a cross-hatch pattern on his face from going through the treatments.

Dennis
 

SJDinPHX

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Jimmy B said:
That's a good story. Most people would have talked about beating him in the tournament and then left off about the three sets and the scores in the other sets, or they would have said that he beat me a set later 7-6 or something like that. I admire that. It has the ring of total truth to it, and if Harry refused to give you the eight, that says a lot about how well you could play nine ball.........
All well and good Jimmy, but sly old RBL is omiting the part where Harry actually gave him "the five out and the break" and still toasted him...Now how good do you think he plays/played ???.:p :p :p

(I wasn't there, but Cornbread told me about it...ask him).:eek:
 

cleary

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I normally look at two different percentages. Pocketing percentage and sellout percentage. Most important, to me, is the sellout percentage. I'll take a very low percentage shot if the sell out percentage is low. But will not take a high percentage shot (75-85%) if the sellout percentage is higher unless the score is in my favor. Playing from behind, to me, all of the percentages are low. Playing in the lead, all the percentages seem high. I'll take slightly more risks when I'm up by a few balls or only need one or two balls.

Someone I play regularly, that gives me 10-6, always leaves me long. He knows more often than not, I'll shoot at my hole. Thing is, a lot of times I'll pocket the ball but almost never end up selling out. He still leaves me long because he thinks thats what he should do, but very rarely does it work out in his favor.
 

fred bentivegna

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Mister Mxyzptlk style

Mister Mxyzptlk style

cleary said:
I normally look at two different percentages. Pocketing percentage and sellout percentage. Most important, to me, is the sellout percentage. I'll take a very low percentage shot if the sell out percentage is low. But will not take a high percentage shot (75-85%) if the sellout percentage is higher unless the score is in my favor. Playing from behind, to me, all of the percentages are low. Playing in the lead, all the percentages seem high. I'll take slightly more risks when I'm up by a few balls or only need one or two balls.

Someone I play regularly, that gives me 10-6, always leaves me long. He knows more often than not, I'll shoot at my hole. Thing is, a lot of times I'll pocket the ball but almost never end up selling out. He still leaves me long because he thinks thats what he should do, but very rarely does it work out in his favor.

You have perfectly described how Mister Mxyzptlk, Superman's arch-enemy, plays Onepocket in the fifth dimension. Shoot when youre ahead. Duck when you are behind. Leaving someone long is no good. Unfortunately, Mister Mxyzptlk cant beat today's SJD in this dimension -- and that is bad.

Beard
 

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fred bentivegna

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Poochie

Poochie

Cowboy Dennis said:
JB,

He would've beat me anyway I think but I was going to donate as long as he kept playing. I just wanted to have a %25 chance of winning 4 or 5 games in a set, that's all. I still figured to lose.

Harry was a very nice guy to be around and he was kind of quiet too. I think at the time we played he had just gone through chemo for some type of cancer that he had. I believe he had a cross-hatch pattern on his face from going through the treatments.

Dennis

Poochie pics.

Beard
 

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