playing from behind

Fatboy

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Feb 27, 2007
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I'm comming here humbly asking for advice, I been playing pool for $$$ since 83, seriously playing for $$$ every time posible since85 to 93 then (on and off for a few yrs). I'm not much of a tournemnt player not to hide my speed or lack of speed-I just dont like tournaments. I am however gonna play in the 1P tournament coming up in vegas to show support. If I win a single game i'll be happy.

Sorry I got side tracked, my point is I have always been a $$$ player. When i was short $$$ until 2001, I was small action, so small it went unnoticed, $100 sets was about as big ass it got, ad a $750 pot in a 3 ball game I didnt win-the shot of the century cost me that $750, I went flat that night about $150ish. I was nickle and dine action-it was the best I could come up with.

now moving forward 10-17 years I am well healed, not like I was 4 years ago, I lost over 80% of my net worth since then but, that gut check was good for me. And I still love action much as ever-not getting robbed. It makes me want to bet more and be in more action. Fat dogs dont hunt, well I aint fat anymore so I want to go hunting. Not $50-$100/1p practice pool, but reasonably big action. not $500,000 either. LOL.


What hasnt changed since 85 is one thing, I like to play for $$$$ by the game, not races, not ahead sets, just by the game, loser reserves the right to quit or a pre set time limit. this is my favorite way to bet $$$ on pool, or ring games(but thats a different topic).

Here is the problem I been in $1000/gm 8 ball with a poker player who can play some pool(i'm not bragging about the bet, its not that big but I want people to realize were not playing $50 practice pool), I could get hurt at that price especially because i'm always stuck and he quits even on me. He isnt banger, Id say he is a C player in Sacramento. I give him the hit and 4/5 pick every other game in 8 ball. I was giving the hit and 5 pick but lost everything I was up $4500 i think plus $5000 more. he was laying 6/5 on the $$$ line with 5 hit and the pick Since we switched 4/5 we broke ever the past 3 sessions playing for even $$$$, I couldn't beat 5 picks(they have been kinda short sessions). He rarely misses when he has a shot, he banks about 5 balls better than he plays(Broomback might be in trouble if this guy decided to learn to play banks) Geez for his speed Lord can he bank. He dosent realize how good he banks.

I always get stuck 2,3,4 games and then come out of my what ever and and drop into the zone and get out with good play, but i really dont see it, Cotton tells me about it afterwards-i'm in such a zone all I see one ball at a time now matter if easy or hard they all look the same to me, i just do what I have to to win. I have played a few monster Artie Safeties that would make artrie proud-they won me the game, i can think of 2 of them. Like I said Cotton has seen it and told me afterwards, I really dont remember what I did/do; I just know I have to win cause I dont want to lose. When we get even he pulls up. He is triple smart and a very good poker player/gambler I cant out manage him and will not lie, I like him and while we gamble I value his friendship and i have never cheated at pool to win. I need to be able to get in this zone when I'm up if I'm gonna book winners no matter who i'm playing. Thats why I dont like sets, i have to be down 2 sets before I remember how to play, so I break even again. Playing from behind has awalys come natural to me and yeah its important to do that to be a champion, it sure as heck aint worth 25 cents in action. Its a fast express ticket to the soup line-I like soup but not that soup.


This was the case in 85 when I was playing for $5/game, I'd get 3 games ahead and I wouldnt get weak-i just couldnt get that last nail in the cofin, I remember playing a guy $50/game on the 10" snooker table-we went across town the bet went up to $350/game, I needed to pot a easy 6, I missed, I was up $500ish, he came back and busted me I lost $400ish a $900 swing on a case 6 ball. this was in 89. I just missed, didnt jump, flinch, take my eye off the ball. I just missed. I had him stuck all night, the rail had tons bet for back then and where we were this was big action.


I just am having a hard time closing the deal in action, i'm not embarrassed to admit it I just want to fix it, hell I fixed other problems in my game so why not this?. Same today I get 3-4 games ahead, I had the poker player on case $$$ he was breaking down his cue I was up $5,000 and I slow rolled(for no good reason) the 8 and it stopped short of falling in-didnt hit the pocket facing just didnt have enough pace on the shot, He fought back to even that night, 99% of the time I'm gonna hit that 8 ball pocket speed and make it. I didnt lose I broke even, but I had him on his case $$$ 3 times that night and couldnt close it out with 3 chances. When I'm stuck I'm stuck 3 games I play much better and on my case $$$ I wont ever miss that 8, it was sickening. I felt like I lost $5,000. I'm not closing out my customers. Dave Knottingnham taught me alot about customers and closing them out at the right time, this game is too close to control like that, i have to play my best to win. But at my best I do have the best of it, I triede to raise the bet to $2000/game or $5,000; I said "Them more you play for the more fun it is". I really like him and I hope he dose raise the bet, he will I think after a few more sessions. he aint gonna go for 10 a game he is too smart. Its a big risk to me, I dont have $$$ like before and at $10K/game I could get hurt-but I'd still play, I love action. And he is a great guy to play. he is a gentleman like JA or SVB.

Somehow I need to get that "Eye of the Tiger" thing going when i'm up. Cause playing from behind will awalys get to break even and lose on a bad day. I been in lots of action lately, past 3 weeks and I have won 3 times lost 2 times and broke out even 4 times. 2 of the 3 werent real action I had way the best of it, so I only really only one time-and I did play great that night everything was working.


So after this book of a post, how do I become a good front runner??? Mike Seigal reminds me of a front runner, JA sure as hell is but I wont ask him, I really need learn to win, all i'm doing is not losing. I'm playing good pool not to lose, not good pool to win-and that makes me a loser. I'm comming with some big shots-nerves of steel-when I'm behind, Cotton has seen it all. he will vouch for me. But i cant pull those shots off when i'm up. and thats no good in the long run, under the heat I'm at my best, now and the same in 85. Sure I play better, i'm older, have a backache, bigger bank roll but the nature of my win/loss patterns is similar. Back then I would "go fishing" took what ever I won and played better players for lessons. But those days are gone.


Teach me to close-please. Thanks in advance.


thanks

Fatboy


Sorry for the long post but I wanted to share some of my past in the hopes of giving someone insight into what I can do. I dont mind putting this biz on the street because the poker player wants to play me only so I dont have to protect a Mark, he isnt a mark-he is a good friend and good action, thats shed light on a problem I have suff4ered from for years, playing good from behind and not playing worth 10 cents with a lead.
 
Last edited:

Artie Bodendorfer

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Nov 18, 2005
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4,271
Fatboy said:
I'm comming here humbly asking for advice, I been playing pool for $$$ since 83, seriously playing for $$$ every time posible since85 to 93 then (on and off for a few yrs). I'm not much of a tournemnt player not to hide my speed or lack of speed-I just dont like tournaments. I am however gonna play in the 1P tournament coming up in vegas to show support. If I win a single game i'll be happy.

Sorry I got side tracked, my point is I have always been a $$$ player. When i was short $$$ until 2001, I was small action, so small it went unnoticed, $100 sets was about as big ass it got, ad a $750 pot in a 3 ball game I didnt win-the shot of the century cost me that $750, I went flat that night about $150ish. I was nickle and dine action-it was the best I could come up with.

now moving forward 10 years I am well healed, not like I was 4 years ago, I lost over 80% of my net worth but, that gut check was good for me. And I still love action much as ever-not getting robbed.


What hasnt changed since 85 is one thing, I like to play for $$$$ by the game, not races, ahead sets, just by the game, loser reserves the right to quit or a pre set time limit. this is my favorite way to bet $$$ on pool, or ring games(but thats a different topic).

Here is the problem I been in $1000/gm 8 ball with a poker player who can play some pool(i'm not bragging about the bet, its not that big but I want people to realize were not playing $50 practice pool), I could get hurt at that price especially because i'm always stuck and he quits even on me. He isnt banger, Id say he is a C player in Sacramento. I give him the hit and 4/5 pick every other game in 8 ball. I was giving the hit and 5 pick but lost everything I was up $4500 i think plus $5000 more. he was laying 6/5 on the $$$ line with 5 hit and the pick Since we switched 4/5 we broke ever the past 3 sessions playing for even $$$$, I couldn't beat 5 picks(they have been kinda short sessions). He rarely misses when he has a shot, he banks about 5 balls better than he plays(Broomback might be in trouble if this guy decided to learn to play banks) Geez for his speed Lord can he bank. He dosent realize how good he banks.

I always get stuck 2,3,4 games and then come out of my what ever and and drop into the zone and get out with good play, but i really dont see it, Cotton tells me about it afterwards-i'm in such a zone all I see one ball at a time now matter if easy or hard they all look the same to me, i just do what I have to to win. I have played a few monster Artie Safeties that would make artrie proud-they won me the game, i can think of 2 of them. Like I said Cotton has seen it and told me afterwards, I really dont remember what I did/do; I just know I have to win cause I dont want to lose. When we get even he pulls up. He is triple smart and a very good poker player/gambler I cant out manage him and will not lie, I like him and while we gamble I value his friendship and i have never cheated at pool to win. I need to be able to get in this zone when I'm up if I'm gonna book winners no matter who i'm playing. Thats why I dont like sets, i have to be down 2 sets before I remember how to play, so I break even again. Playing from behind has awalys come natural to me and yeah its important to do that to be a champion, it sure as heck aint worth 25 cents in action. Its a fast express ticket to the soup line-I like soup but not that soup.


This was the case in 85 when I was playing for $5/game, I'd get 3 games ahead and I dont get weak, I just am having a hard time closing the deal. Same today I get 3-4 games ahead, I had him on case $$$ h4e was breaking down his cue I was up $5,000 and I slow rolled(for no good reason) and it stopped short of falling in, he fought back to even that night, 99% of the time I'm gonna hit that ball pocket speed and make it. I didnt lose I broke even, but I had him on his case $$$ 3 times that night and couldnt close it out. If I'm stuck 3 games I play much better and on my case $$$ I wont ever miss that 8, it was sickening.

Somehow I need to get that "Eye of the Tiger" thing going when i'm up. Cause playing from behind will awalys get to break even and lose on a bad day. I been in lots of action lately, past 3 weeks and I have won 3 times lost 2 times and broke out even 4 times. 2 of the 3 werent real action I had way the best of it, so I only really only one time-and I did play great that night everything was working.


So after this book of a post, how do I become a good front runner??? Mike Seigal reminds me of a front runner, JA sure as hell is but I wont ask him, I really need learn to win, all i'm doing is not losing. I'm playing good pool not to lose, not good pool to win-and that makes me a loser. I'm comming with some big shots-nerves of steel-when I'm behind, Cotton has seen it all. he will vouch for me. But i cant pull those shots off when i'm up. and thats no good in the long run, under the heat I'm at my best, now and the same in 85. Sure I play better, i'm older, have a backache, bigger bank roll but the nature of my win/loss patterns is similar. Back then I would "go fishing" took what ever I won and played better players for lessons. But those days are gone.


Teach me to close-please. Thanks in advance.


thanks

Fatboy
Your playing a different style when you are stuck then when you are ahead .

Subconcious you might feel guilty when you win. So you wnt win.

And you dont want too loose either so you make your shots. But if you make your game consistent weather you are winning or loosing then you wiil change.

Or if the person you are playing quits you always when he gets 3 games ahead what are you going too do. Keep loosing 3 games or play too win from the start.

You might not even be playing hard too win from the start. The only way too see that is If I see what you are doing and what you did.

The answers are in your playing. And maybe it makes you feel good coming from behind getting even.

But if you are playing youre game from the beginning that can not happen.

Being three games stuch usuauly only makes it worse. And Iys hard too come backbecause youre mind knowes you can only loose or tie.

But you are not playing your game in the begining thats why you get stuck. Andv if you tape youre next session you will see the answer.

Im a bumb in the park. I spent meny a days by Lincoln park om a bench thinking about my pool game and life.

And even all the perch I was going too catch. That is one off the greatest feelings I had sitting on the rocks or a bench in the park.

Watching people walk fish ride Bysicles. And thier would be some real beauties on the beach at Fullerton. And the Zoo was just a few blocks away.
 

Fatboy

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Your playing a different style when you are stuck then when you are ahead .

Subconcious you might feel guilty when you win. So you wnt win.

And you dont want too loose either so you make your shots. But if you make your game consistent weather you are winning or loosing then you wiil change.

that could be it, the subconscious thing, but I never feel bad when I do win and get paid.

This makes lots of sence to me, how do I get around that. Thats perhaps the reason, i will have to sleep on it. If I can get past that, then i'm good.

Back in 85-89 I booked 80% wnners, until I stepped up for lessions. If I didnt I could have probably got into the 90% range.

these days unless I'm stealing I'm at less than 50%, And that sucks. Sure there was less pressure on me to win because I have a bankroll now(whats left anyways), when i'm stuck I do play a different game-I awalys have, i need to get that game out from the gate. The guy I been playing did lose $4800 to me when I came out the gate strong, but since that first session and the adjusted spot(which is now correct). I know tonight I could have won 4-5K If I win the first 3 games and then just played good. I had chances to win the first 3 games. I got out of worse spots when I was stuck 3. So tonight its another $5,000 swing. This guy has so much $$$ he dosent care. He will play me this game for life, unless I'm up 12-20 then we miught have to go back to the 5 hit and pick, which I can still win. I have a good friend/customer. I'm not gonna take advantage of him. Cotton Ref's so its a fair game.
 

beatle

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you maybe have a bad game and cant win. only that he is a slow starter or doesnt want to drown you early on and finds himself stuck and then plays his way out.

from what you say i dont like your side of this.
 

Fatboy

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beatle said:
you maybe have a bad game and cant win. only that he is a slow starter or doesnt want to drown you early on and finds himself stuck and then plays his way out.

from what you say i dont like your side of this.

I dont like my side either, hence the post and question. I can be a big favorite and I'm always behind. It seems when I get in front I get lazy, my mind loses focus. I play bad against weaker players and better against good payer(except champions).

I suppose I get lazy when I get a lead, years ago I booked about winners 80% of the time unless I stepped up. now I just lose.


I played Artie the other day, nit bet, he wins every game if he wants to. It was a social thing. i owed 3 Artie had 2 were playing even 8/8, I fouled 8 times that rack, none were intentional,I got to 7 artie had 1. He said "How do you like it from here? I said your the 2-1 favorite, he came back I made 15 to his 8 and still lost. When Artie comes to play I rarely win a game. I was playing from behind that whole rack and played great to get back into the game, I needed 11 and artie needed 6. I still didnt win. Partly because he wasnt putting much effort into the game, he kept me inj a trap for ever but even he said you play good eing down so good. I shot at the $$ 3 times and the 4th was a combo I shouldnt miss. I wasnt nervous or scared to win, i just couldnt close out the game.

i need help, i dont come here and post much like AZ because i'm still wet behind the ears. Any thoughts.
 

petie

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Eric, it’s really interesting to me to hear you pour your heart out here. It takes a very big man to do this. I have seen Artie do it as well—a lot of character. I already knew you were of very high character when at DCC this year you told me and another guy the story of when the house man in a shady pool hall had saved your bacon after your partner had attracted a couple of muggers. The point of the story was to back up and to thoroughly give props to this player who was the house man in the story and who was there with us at DCC. I’m sorry I don’t remember his name. I’m sure you know who I’m talking about. You took at least 20 minutes to tell the story that essentially lionized the player/house man and obviously made him feel terrific. It was quite exceptional.

Now I’ll attempt to address the problem. I’m a shit on the wall kind of problem solver. You think of as many things as you can that could possibly contribute to the problem and remediate them. You might just get the job done. For years I have been a student of self-talk and subliminal motivation. Applied to this I would surmise that you have already written a script for yourself that you are trying to live up to that says you have to come from behind. Of course, you can re-write the script to say it’s OK to win running away. You do this by positive affirmations. You look at yourself in the mirror and say, “I’m a winner. I win from behind, I win going away, and I win in a see-saw match.” You can make up your won positive affirmations. The point is, you say what you are striving to be as if it were already true. You repeat it often. So much for the script.

I think you would profit by reading “The Zen Archer.” If you do, you will see why I recommend it. Until you do read it, try concentrating on making the ball and not on where you stand in the match.

One more thing and this might be the best help I can offer, get in touch with Eddie Robin who lives in Vegas and have him give you private coaching lessons if he will. He knows more about pool and how the mind works than anybody on the planet. If you don’t know how to reach him, private message me and I’ll give you his number.
 

jrhendy

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Closing It Out

Closing It Out

You are searching for the answer Eric, which is the right thing to do, but it can be elusive.

When I was a young man, all I wanted to be was a pool player. Fifty years ago I learned I did not have what it takes to make a living playing pool. I had Ritchie Florence stuck 18 games of $10 snooker and I wanted him to quit instead of bust him. He spotted a weakness, jacked the bet and busted me. I went out and got a job, which was the smartest thing I ever did.

I still have that weakness from time to time. There is nothing like coming from behind to get the cash, but when you play by the game you are more than likely just going to get even when you make a comeback. For larger $$ I will only play sets anymore. I get too lazy early playing by the game and feel like I am giving odds on the $$ because I won't quit and the other guy usually will if I come back from being stuck.

Wish I had a better answer, but I am still working at it after 55+ years of gambling at pool.

It sounds like you start of well early and fade in the stretch. IMO races are the way for you to go.
 

androd

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Fatboy said:
on case $$$ he was breaking down his cue I was up $5,000 and I slow rolled(for no good reason) the 8 and it stopped short of falling in-didnt hit the pocket facing just didnt have enough pace on the shot

. I dont mind putting this biz on the street because the poker player wants to play me only so I dont have to protect a Mark, he isnt a mark-he is a good friend and good action
Maybe you're trying to win the table cloth ? :confused:
When he started breaking down his cue, you shouldn't have shot. If he said go ahead and you missed, you should of said "I'm glad you're gonna quit, I ready to quit myself" and broke your cue down.

I always try to win all I can, but I treat everyone like they treat me.
I don't know how you knew it was his last game ?
If he's a good guy and a friend, you quiting should be no problem.:)
Rod.
 

Banks

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Your playing a different style when you are stuck then when you are ahead .

Subconcious you might feel guilty when you win. So you wnt win.

And you dont want too loose either so you make your shots. But if you make your game consistent weather you are winning or loosing then you wiil change.

Or if the person you are playing quits you always when he gets 3 games ahead what are you going too do. Keep loosing 3 games or play too win from the start.

You might not even be playing hard too win from the start. The only way too see that is If I see what you are doing and what you did.

The answers are in your playing. And maybe it makes you feel good coming from behind getting even.

But if you are playing youre game from the beginning that can not happen.

And even all the perch I was going too catch. That is one off the greatest feelings I had sitting on the rocks or a bench in the park.
Yeah, what Artie said.

I find when I play friends or even people I don't know, but still like, that I'll start slacking off(intentionally and not intentionally) when I've got them on the ropes. I think it is more that I like the game, so I'm not going for the jugular.

When I started playing a while back(all of 6 years ago), there were two things that helped me seal the deal in these situations.. First was to shoot the 8 with a leave on something else and second was to find(even make something up) something I didn't like or even hated about my opponent. I've been choking on the 8 a bit lately, too.. so I need to stop a second and take a bit of that advice again. Lucky for me, though, as I rarely get to play for anything.

By the way.. your writing/typing skills are much improved, nice job.

And Artie, I knew there was a reason I liked you.. if it weren't for pool, I'd be thinking of fishing all day long.. I don't care what I catch, just as long as I'm near the water.

Eric.. sounds like you subconsciously know you have the nuts in this game, as much as you aren't closing out. Go in for the kill next time and show yourself that you *can* do it and I'm sure it will come easier next time. After having played the guy enough, I doubt he'd stop playing you if you took it down well once.
 

cleary

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
Your playing a different style when you are stuck then when you are ahead .

Subconcious you might feel guilty when you win. So you wnt win.

And you dont want too loose either so you make your shots. But if you make your game consistent weather you are winning or loosing then you wiil change.

Or if the person you are playing quits you always when he gets 3 games ahead what are you going too do. Keep loosing 3 games or play too win from the start.

You might not even be playing hard too win from the start. The only way too see that is If I see what you are doing and what you did.

The answers are in your playing. And maybe it makes you feel good coming from behind getting even.

But if you are playing youre game from the beginning that can not happen.

Being three games stuch usuauly only makes it worse. And Iys hard too come backbecause youre mind knowes you can only loose or tie.

But you are not playing your game in the begining thats why you get stuck. Andv if you tape youre next session you will see the answer.

Im a bumb in the park. I spent meny a days by Lincoln park om a bench thinking about my pool game and life.

And even all the perch I was going too catch. That is one off the greatest feelings I had sitting on the rocks or a bench in the park.

Watching people walk fish ride Bysicles. And thier would be some real beauties on the beach at Fullerton. And the Zoo was just a few blocks away.
Some of the best advice I think I've ever read on a pool forum.
 

Fatboy

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678
we played again last night $1000/gm. I was behind and got even he pulled up. I think it was last night, He was here I'm pretty sure we played.

I'm giving up a pile of weight, but even if I wasnt giving up that much weight-I'd still be behind. Its just how I've been running. The best size isnt a issue-if it was I'd admit it. I'd probably get tight at $25,000/gm for a hour or two then get used to it. Thats about the only gift I have ever had in pool, $$$ dosent make the pockets smaller after a couple hours at the most. Nor does playing champions that dosent make me weak. other than that i have zero talent for pool.

I'l gonna play him again on 4" pockets and see how that effects the stronger player. Were about within 1 or 2 games from being even, I won more before we raised the bet to a dime, I'm $5K loser in the 5 or 6 times we played. But not 5 games loser so its a real tight match. It will be interesting to see how the tight pockets effect the game. It will answere some of those questions on pocket size favoring players when big spots are given up.


I know one thing for sure, being in $1000/gm action everyday is real good for your game. Who ever said "Action dosent make you a better player" I disagree with-except Ralf he got there with out action, he is one hell of a player. But for me I need action to improve.

thanks


And yeah it takes a few stones to put all your biz in the street like I did, but I have nothing to hide. I have awalys been honest on all forums, and never exaggerate, BS, etc. Life is what it is.


Best to everyone

Eric
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Fatboy said:
we played again last night $1000/gm. I was behind and got even he pulled up. I think it was last night, He was here I'm pretty sure we played.

I'm giving up a pile of weight, but even if I wasnt giving up that much weight-I'd still be behind. Its just how I've been running. The best size isnt a issue-if it was I'd admit it. I'd probably get tight at $25,000/gm for a hour or two then get used to it. Thats about the only gift I have ever had in pool, $$$ dosent make the pockets smaller after a couple hours at the most. Nor does playing champions that dosent make me weak. other than that i have zero talent for pool.

I'l gonna play him again on 4" pockets and see how that effects the stronger player. Were about within 1 or 2 games from being even, I won more before we raised the bet to a dime, I'm $5K loser in the 5 or 6 times we played. But not 5 games loser so its a real tight match. It will be interesting to see how the tight pockets effect the game. It will answere some of those questions on pocket size favoring players when big spots are given up.


I know one thing for sure, being in $1000/gm action everyday is real good for your game. Who ever said "Action dosent make you a better player" I disagree with-except Ralf he got there with out action, he is one hell of a player. But for me I need action to improve.

thanks


And yeah it takes a few stones to put all your biz in the street like I did, but I have nothing to hide. I have awalys been honest on all forums, and never exaggerate, BS, etc. Life is what it is.


Best to everyone

Eric

Real good post You are a person that has too have value on the game without any value being on the game you dont feei like it matterers if you win or loose.

And you dont have a solid reason to win or loose. Without value on the game you are playing for fun.

And nobody realy know who the winner will be because thier is no value on the game.

Do not let this interferr with learning.

Learning has nothing too do with value. Its about learning what you need to do and howe too do it correctly.

And I was showeing someone something in a middle off a game and he was learning.

And I went wright too what he needed too learn and showe him what he has too learn.

And I went wright too the shot and moved the balls.

It didnt matter about the game.

I went wright too what he had too learn and that will realy help his game.

And If I would not have done that a very important shot would not have been learned.

And if you are gambling you cannot do that.

You either gambele or you learn.

At the end off both sessions I tell you wight down what you learned by gambling.

And wright down what you learned by your learning session.

Witch one do you think you will be able to wright down were you learned the most.

Its not even close. You learn more from a learning lession then a gambling lession.

And your learning lessions will help your gambling lessions.



Her is my answer too your qouistion.

PLay a freeze out 4 games ahead. And you can play for x amount off time or tell you finish the ession.

But youre mind will think different and you will play different.

ANd you can even play 3 games ahead in the freeze out.

And one other reason could be why you start slow.

IS if you are not warmed up good enough at the start off the game.

Can make a big difference. And I see it with great players.

Coming into a game cold or tiered does not help you.

And your mind should be on playing the game 100% or dont play.

You are not doing youself any favores by playing when you no you realy dont want too play.

It takes all the enjoyment and fun out off the game.

Your not just thier because off the action.

You are thier because you realy love too play.

And you want too feel good about howe you played.

Self satisfaction ie one off the strongest motavators we have.

Keep playing and with time your qouistion will all be answered.

Dont beat yopurself up. Be good to yourself.

Who likes you more then yourself?
 

Fatboy

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Feb 27, 2007
Messages
678
androd said:
Maybe you're trying to win the table cloth ? :confused:
When he started breaking down his cue, you shouldn't have shot. If he said go ahead and you missed, you should of said "I'm glad you're gonna quit, I ready to quit myself" and broke your cue down.

I always try to win all I can, but I treat everyone like they treat me.
I don't know how you knew it was his last game ?
If he's a good guy and a friend, you quiting should be no problem.:)
Rod.
if he was a player i would have done that, he isnt and dosent know the ediquite and i dont want to lose a customer.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,271
Fatboy said:
if he was a player i would have done that, he isnt and dosent know the ediquite and i dont want to lose a customer.
Let me ask you a qouistion. What do you think makes you loose a coustomer.

If beating him looses you your coustomer. Then he was never a coustomer too start with.

You will give youre answer too my qouistion and then I will give you the answer.

I no what a coustomer is. And if you have too loose too keep a coustomer.

Then you have taken his place and you have become the coustomer.
 

Fatboy

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Messages
678
Artie Bodendorfer said:
Let me ask you a qouistion. What do you think makes you loose a coustomer.

If beating him looses you your coustomer. Then he was never a coustomer too start with.

You will give youre answer too my qouistion and then I will give you the answer.

I no what a coustomer is. And if you have too loose too keep a coustomer.

Then you have taken his place and you have become the coustomer.
Short answere next post down



Long answere:


Artie, You have to understand, this guy is from Germany, he moved here 4 years ago. His english is 90% but he knows the German way of playing pool, In the past couple years I spent 7 months there-I was just there this past Dec for a month and played everywhere(private clubs, video poker casinos, pool rooms). Their way of doing things there is different than here in America. He is a poker player and a winning poker player. He didnt have a clue about the rules, the way things work etc. with pool. Sometime ago in the past he played because he never picks the wrong balls off, rarely misses the 8 ball, and because he is a seasoned gambler the $$$ isnt putting any lead in his stroke.

Artie you and I both know keep your customer happy, we watched together what should have been a 50K-100K score that end up being nothing. WHY? because they didnt keep their customer happy.


This German guy I'm playing is leery about us moving on him because he dosent know the whole thing. So to keep his confidence level high-I have played square the whole time. I dont need to win on a technicality. I have played him 5-6 times so far I took yesterday off and went shooting guns instead. I can beat the guy playing square, I dont need to teach him everything I know about pool(dont kick a sleeping dog, or wake up a dummy-he aint dumb but I sure aint gonna teach him everything, I know). I'm just gonna play honset pool and that will be enough to win, it mite take longer and thats cool I like being in action anyways. I need him to be confident that he aint getting fvcked, so when I explain something that does come up I give him a solid logical reason. We havent had one argument and never will. He is cool and corrects his mistakes, he was braking 2" in front of the line-I put a end to that. He is reat to play and a great guy, never stands in front of the shot, dosent make noise etc. I wish everyone I played carried themselfs like he does. He is like Bartrum in that way,


You know the Golden rule "Awalys keep your customer happy" And I have done that. I dont need to cheat, get technical, or anything to beat him. I know him If I tell him that breaking down your cue is a forfeit he will never play again, I have had the 8 ball in the jaws or real easy 15 times and he says "Its good"-if you said that I'd grab the rock and start a new game. I asked him one time after he said "Its good" If I had to shoot it, it wasnt a hanger. his reply word 4 word "I must see you shoot the 8 ball every time", so when he says "its good" I just keep shooting. He isnt trying anything funny on me, its him complementing me because he only says it when I'm running out a tough out. He never says ""Its good" If I have 4 stop and goes.


So After I figured that out I let it go its just him, Sure I could not shoot the 8 and piss him off. The last thing I want is to piss him off, besides I like the guy. We will be playing lots more.


and here is whats gonna be interesting were going from 4 5/8"+ pockets to the 4" pockets Glen cut on my Diamond. Thats gonna answer some points raised in the threads talking about pocket size and who does it favor. He hasnt played enough to be scared of 4" pockets, I have to run out damn near every game to win. I'm curious about how thats gonna shake out.
 
Last edited:

Fatboy

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Feb 27, 2007
Messages
678
Artie Bodendorfer said:
Let me ask you a qouistion. What do you think makes you loose a coustomer.

If beating him looses you your coustomer. Then he was never a coustomer too start with.

You will give youre answer too my qouistion and then I will give you the answer.

I no what a coustomer is. And if you have too loose too keep a coustomer.

Then you have taken his place and you have become the coustomer.

short answere:

If i win in a way he dosent understand he is gone, He will lose all day and night if I win by playing good.

If I try and win on some technical thing he is gone,


So I have a solid customer as long as I dont pull any moves, thats how all Germans are, and thats why I get along so well with Germans and love it there. I like how Germans think as a general rule. There are good and bad everywhere. but there is no bullshit tollarated in Germany or with Germans. I'm much the same way, as you are,


Respectfully
Fatboy


Ps hope you feel better todday
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,271
Fatboy said:
short answere:

If i win in a way he dosent understand he is gone, He will lose all day and night if I win by playing good.

If I try and win on some technical thing he is gone,


So I have a solid customer as long as I dont pull any moves, thats how all Germans are, and thats why I get along so well with Germans and love it there. I like how Germans think as a general rule. There are good and bad everywhere. but there is no bullshit tollarated in Germany or with Germans. I'm much the same way, as you are,


Respectfully
Fatboy


Ps hope you feel better todday

The all belive in atoratie and desipline that why one idiot got them all too followe them.

And if he would have won the world would be history thier would be no world.

The followed a mad man. And they did the crulest thing ever done too man kind.

And nobody had enough heart or balls too stop him. THey can be glade he didnt get the atomick bomb first.

And ypu wouldnt have too worry about watching basket ball it would never have happened.

He would have blown up one country at a time. And the finaly would have been taken his father land with him.

He was one real disturbed person. And always be aware off a goverment having too much power.

Thier can be other adolfs lerking around.
 

Ken_4fun

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Feb 2, 2011
Messages
233
jrhendy said:
You are searching for the answer Eric, which is the right thing to do, but it can be elusive.

When I was a young man, all I wanted to be was a pool player. Fifty years ago I learned I did not have what it takes to make a living playing pool. I had Ritchie Florence stuck 18 games of $10 snooker and I wanted him to quit instead of bust him. He spotted a weakness, jacked the bet and busted me. I went out and got a job, which was the smartest thing I ever did.

I still have that weakness from time to time. There is nothing like coming from behind to get the cash, but when you play by the game you are more than likely just going to get even when you make a comeback. For larger $$ I will only play sets anymore. I get too lazy early playing by the game and feel like I am giving odds on the $$ because I won't quit and the other guy usually will if I come back from being stuck.

Wish I had a better answer, but I am still working at it after 55+ years of gambling at pool.

It sounds like you start of well early and fade in the stretch. IMO races are the way for you to go.


I too, hate playing races and rather play by the game. Really pi$$es me off to race to X and I am X-1 and lose.

If I win, rather be by the game, and if I lose I would rather be by the game.

Just me,

Ken
 

Banks

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Messages
386
I have nearly nothing on the gambling history, so I'm just kinda putting this out there to chew on.

How much has he played pool? How proficient is he in his shot selection and execution? In other words, while working towards that big pie in the sky, will you still be able to cover any improvements he makes in his game during the wait? Giving people a heavy spread like that while they improve could just turn into donating, I'd think.

I know the money could be pocket change or at least what you'd be willing to hand over gambling, but are you also risking being bled out only to be up $10k after all the time you put in?

It seems you've got yourself into a bit of a squeeze..
1) You're giving up a heavy spot that you have to outrun.
2) He consistently quits even or ahead.
3) If you crush him, you risk losing him.
4) If he has the capacity to improve, you could just as easily be on the hard end of things.

That said, the best I've done playing has been when I wasn't trying to win much(or even gamble), but they were practically throwing their $$ at me. Maybe if you just went into it like practice or just to have a good time with friendly competition, his wallet may open up a little. Remember, those Europeans are more social.. dinner isn't just dinner, it's an evening of socializing. Perhaps that kind of thing may loosen his pockets..
 

Banks

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Dec 7, 2010
Messages
386
Ken_4fun said:
I too, hate playing races and rather play by the game. Really pi$$es me off to race to X and I am X-1 and lose.

If I win, rather be by the game, and if I lose I would rather be by the game.

Just me,

Ken
At the same time, it just plain sucks to play for hours only to be up 1 game's worth of money.
 
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