"PiggyBanks" vs. E. Strickland 2012 D.C.C.

John Brumback

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I'm not a physics major or anything but I know a couple of things about the laws of physics governing collisions between rotating spheres. Or at least I think I know, that's why I bought the physics books I do have, to learn the science of the game better.

I'll take a shot at answering your question about the bounce back. Of course, I stand to be corrected by the science guys who know much more than I do but I'll stick my neck out for chopping anyway:p

1. If the cueball & object ball are the same physical size and weigh the same amount, I don't believe there will be any bounce-back effect on that shot. What would cause the bounce-back?

2. If the cueball is heavier than the cueball but they are the same physical size I don't believe there would be any bounce-back either.

3. If the cueball is lighter than the object ball but they are the same physical size then the cueball could of course bounce-back slightly because it is hitting a heavier ball. I don't have any idea how much lighter the cueball would need to be to bounce-back as far as you made it bounce back but I would think it would have to be much lighter than the object ball, probably so light that you would never get any follow on it when needed.

Why don't you just admit that you hit that shot with a slight amount of backspin on it? It would be much easier than arguing with me:).

P.S. You do realize don't you that you are saying you can make a cueball come back towards you without using draw.

Cowboy "got things to do, see you later" Dennis
Well you see,pool balls have a minute amount of elastity therefore making a tiny bit of bounce-back iminent,sp?

And because even if I did use draw YOU DON"T WANT TO OR NEED TO!!!!! The best way to make that shot is to stun the cball through the object ball!!
No draw,draw WILL make the object ball go long,you do not want that.Why don't you Just addmit that your still hot about that time I got on your butt for you for telling some poor soul to shoot that shot with draw.You were wrong then and you are wrong now! Good day Sir! :mad::p John B.
 

Island Drive

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5 or the 3

5 or the 3

Duplicate post..................
 
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Island Drive

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5 or the 3

5 or the 3

5 cross side, reverse english, two or three rails depending on conditions or the 3ball two rails in the corner leaving whitey at least a couple diamonds up on the side rail.
I don't read any posts before I make my decisions, helps me learn quicker. Thanks for the tip on a sliding center ball english inside that creates a shorter angle than with draw.
 

fred bentivegna

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The only recorded tip by Eddie Taylor re banks, and I have heard it several times, the last time on Alf Taylor's Eddie Taylor DVD, is that you NEVER use draw to PINCH a ball. John B is right on this one. You skid the cue ball with english with a speed that allows the cue ball to acquire Center Axis with english at the exact instant that it contacts the object ball. So it is a Stop-Ball with english that makes the best pinch.

Beard
 

John Brumback

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The only recorded tip by Eddie Taylor re banks, and I have heard it several times, the last time on Alf Taylor's Eddie Taylor DVD, is that you NEVER use draw to PINCH a ball. John B is right on this one. You skid the cue ball with english with a speed that allows the cue ball to acquire Center Axis with english at the exact instant that it contacts the object ball. So it is a Stop-Ball with english that makes the best pinch.

Beard
Hey, what do mean "on this one" ??:eek::lol Thanks Fred and you nor I don't need anyone to tell us how to pinch a ball.

I'll bet he comes back with some lanebrain retort,hehe.John B.
 

Cary

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I suspect the "bounce back" is the result of the cue ball actually being very slightly airborne or off the cloth when the elasticity of the balls rebounds. I suspect John is getting some forward roll on the cue ball when he shoots this which then carries it forward when the cue comes back down. Obviously I could be wrong, but that's my guess.
 

John Brumback

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I suspect the "bounce back" is the result of the cue ball actually being very slightly airborne or off the cloth when the elasticity of the balls rebounds. I suspect John is getting some forward roll on the cue ball when he shoots this which then carries it forward when the cue comes back down. Obviously I could be wrong, but that's my guess.
Thank you!! I think:lol John B.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Well you see,pool balls have a minute amount of elastity therefore making a tiny bit of bounce-back iminent,sp?

And because even if I did use draw YOU DON"T WANT TO OR NEED TO!!!!! The best way to make that shot is to stun the cball through the object ball!!
No draw,draw WILL make the object ball go long,you do not want that.Why don't you Just addmit that your still hot about that time I got on your butt for you for telling some poor soul to shoot that shot with draw.You were wrong then and you are wrong now! Good day Sir! :mad::p John B.
Dear BounceBackBrumback,

First of all Catfish breath, let's get one thing straight before you get everybody around the world chiming in on your behalf: we are not and have never been discussing the best way to bank that ball cross-side. That was not the original discussion. Here's what I said in post #11

Cowboy Dennis said:
Dear Catfish Breath,

Since nobody else has given you very many ideas & theroys to consider, I will:

Idea & Theroy #1...Shooting a cross-side bank with inside english that doesn't NEED to be hit with inside english does not make the shot easier.

Idea & Theroy #2... Ponder this theory the next time you're down at the ole fishin' hole swinging on the tire.

Cowboy "can't make pockets bigger than they are" Dennis
You responded by telling me to watch the DVD you so generously sent me.

I responded to that with this:
Cowboy Dennis said:
I did watch it but had trouble getting past the 1st shot. The cross-side where you advise the secret is to not hit with draw at all but to use center-right. I have a question CFB: How does the cueball get to here on the shot if you don't use any draw? Center-right would make the cueball either go forward or parallel to the rail not come back away from it. No?
Do you see the problem CFB? I'm referring to you telling people to use inside to make pockets bigger and you respond by telling me to watch the DVD. We are not discussing the best way to make that cross-side bank.

Now let me be so bold as to directly quote you from your Bank Pool DVD, this is at 3:05 of the DVD:
CatfishBreath said:
...If you put draw on this shot you'll never make it...
And yet, in your post above you say:
CatfishBreath said:
And because even if I did use draw YOU DON"T WANT TO OR NEED TO!!!!!
I'm very confused John, which is it? That bank can't be made with draw at all or maybe sometimes it can but it's not the best way to hit it?

Jeez, if it can be made with a touch of draw then I guess I was right in that post I made months ago.

But if it can't be made with draw as you say in your DVD then I guess you have to fall back on the "bounce-back" theory. That's not very palatable is it? Trying to explain how a cueball comes back so far as it hits a ball almost equal to it in size & weight isn't your long suit is it?

Again, for your information, this is what I am discussing here as long as you don't veer off-course again:D

Idea & Theroy #1...Shooting a cross-side bank with inside english that doesn't NEED to be hit with inside english does not make the shot easier.

This is the topic John.

Dennis
 

Cowboy Dennis

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The only recorded tip by Eddie Taylor re banks, and I have heard it several times, the last time on Alf Taylor's Eddie Taylor DVD, is that you NEVER use draw to PINCH a ball. John B is right on this one. You skid the cue ball with english with a speed that allows the cue ball to acquire Center Axis with english at the exact instant that it contacts the object ball. So it is a Stop-Ball with english that makes the best pinch.

Beard
Freddy,

If you reread post #16 you'll see that I am not talking about the best way or how to make that bank cross-side. I'm talking about JB's use of draw on that shot in his DVD even though he says it can't be made with draw.

Dennis
 

wgcp

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Dennis,
Don't know about physics... but Freddie's book explains how harder hits actually increase the time of the ball on an object ball... as in each ball compresses at impact point... I ain't real book smart but that does mean a rebound is occuring... you know just like that each action has an equal and opposite reaction... somebody really smart said that one...guess that means you can draw a ball without bottom...

B
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Dennis,
Don't know about physics......guess that means you can draw a ball without bottom...

B
Nice leap of logic Bille:p.

I guess I was wrong again but since I don't have a table handy at home could you please set up a shot for us and shoot it? Thanks a lot. Please set up the balls dead-nuts straight into the corner pocket (as shown) and then, without using draw (striking above center with a level cue), shoot the 9 straight in the corner and let us all know just how far you can draw the cueball back towards you . If you get it past the blue line I will send you $1000. Thanks a lot:).


Bille's Experiment.jpg
 

wgcp

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I knew better...
jump cue high ball comes down without english and rolls backward... just saying...
B:frus
 
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lll

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Nice leap of logic Bille:p.

I guess I was wrong again but since I don't have a table handy at home could you please set up a shot for us and shoot it? Thanks a lot. Please set up the balls dead-nuts straight into the corner pocket (as shown) and then, without using draw (striking above center with a level cue), shoot the 9 straight in the corner and let us all know just how far you can draw the cueball back towards you . If you get it past the blue line I will send you $1000. Thanks a lot:).


View attachment 6120
thats not a bank shot:p
just sayin:D
 

Cowboy Dennis

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I knew better...

B:frus
No...you didn't:).

Bille, I know about collisions between billiard balls and one thing you're neglecting to consider is that a ball in motion (cueball) possesses much energy and is only going to "bounce-back" a negligible, almost immeasureable amount for our discussion. You probably would never see it on a pooltable without a high-speed camera filming it.

JB hit the shot with draw and won't admit it, that's all. No need for all the other comments to be made concerning elastic collisions, rebounding, bounce-back or anything else.

Dennis
 

wgcp

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put two balls down hit above center and the cue comes back because of the mass of two to one... of course I know I will lose this argument...

B
 

Cowboy Dennis

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put two balls down hit above center and the cue comes back because of the mass of two to one... of course I know I will lose this argument...

B
Yeah, or you could just throw it into a brick wall:sorry:lol.
 

John Brumback

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No...you didn't:).

Bille, I know about collisions between billiard balls and one thing you're neglecting to consider is that a ball in motion (cueball) possesses much energy and is only going to "bounce-back" a negligible, almost immeasureable amount for our discussion. You probably would never see it on a pooltable without a high-speed camera filming it.

JB hit the shot with draw and won't admit it, that's all. No need for all the other comments to be made concerning elastic collisions, rebounding, bounce-back or anything else.

Dennis
Darn it I was going to say get you a high speed camera and see for yourself.
"you would probably never see it on a pool table without a high speed camera"????? well there ya go!!.Did I not say minute? that means a little.John B.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Darn it I was going to say get you a high speed camera and see for yourself.
"you would probably never see it on a pool table without a high speed camera"????? well there ya go!!.Did I not say minute? that means a little.John B.
Why don't you stop jerking around already and admit you hit the ball with draw in your DVD? Odd thing is you pulled that bank up shorter than the one before it that you didn't hit with draw:eek:.

RBL
 
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