Opinions needed...

newfosgatesucks

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Nov 23, 2006
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The lower pocket is yours. I am aware of the draw push through shot. However, I just do not like push shots. What are you guys opinions of this shot here? I want to hear about frozen and not frozen to blocking ball as well. I know not froze is a foul. But frozen, I still do not like the shot. Although it is a great shot, I just don't feel right to use it. I generally foul him back here, I feel more sportsman-like. In other words,"Nice freeze, buddy, You got me, but it will cost you this.." as opposed to,"Im in a rough spot, work with me on this a little, I know it is a push, but work with me". Thats how I feel. I'd rather give a ball up and leave him there than take a shot that lacks integrity...The diagram is only an example, not a game situation.
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BTdj4DAcN4EKgT3FCPy4GVrB4PYDx4QdGw3Rcpt4bVrB3bYFP3baLS4badd4kYDx4kAMm4kAMn3kBbj3kBbj3kCQx3kDWr3kDwA3kEMw3kEuD3kFjw3kWJb@[/CUETABLE]
 
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gulfportdoc

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It's not considered a "push shot" as long as you shoot down on the CB, and the CB does not follow the OB at the same speed. It's a good bank. Why not shoot it?

Doc
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Frozen ball shots

Frozen ball shots

If you were playing me and went to shoot this shot I wouldn't even get out of my chair to watch it as long as you were frozen to the object ball. You cannot hit the cueball twice if it is frozen and there is no other reason to watch the shot. Shoot with draw or center or top, I don't care. Of course, I seem to be a little bit odd when it comes to things like this. What are you supposed to do when someone leaves you like this? Just hand over your bankroll. There is nothing wrong with the shot in your diagram. It's just a shot like any other.
 

NH Steve

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Cowboy Dennis said:
If you were playing me and went to shoot this shot I wouldn't even get out of my chair to watch it as long as you were frozen to the object ball. You cannot hit the cueball twice if it is frozen and there is no other reason to watch the shot. Shoot with draw or center or top, I don't care. Of course, I seem to be a little bit odd when it comes to things like this. What are you supposed to do when someone leaves you like this? Just hand over your bankroll. There is nothing wrong with the shot in your diagram. It's just a shot like any other.
I agree. If it is frozen, I might make sure my opponent understands the rule first, but I sure like taking advantage of the opportunity instead of penalizing myself in the situation you show.
 

blackeee

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newfosgatesucks said:
The lower pocket is yours. I am aware of the draw push through shot. However, I just do not like push shots. What are you guys opinions of this shot here? I want to hear about frozen and not frozen to blocking ball as well. I know not froze is a foul. But frozen, I still do not like the shot. Although it is a great shot, I just don't feel right to use it. I generally foul him back here, I feel more sportsman-like. In other words,"Nice freeze, buddy, You got me, but it will cost you this.." as opposed to,"Im in a rough spot, work with me on this a little, I know it is a push, but work with me". Thats how I feel. I'd rather give a ball up and leave him there than take a shot that lacks integrity...The diagram is only an example, not a game situation.
[CUETABLE]http://CueTable.com/P/?@3BTdj4DAcN4EKgT3FCPy4GVrB4PYDx4QdGw3Rcpt4bVrB3bYFP3baLS4badd4kYDx4kAMm4kAMn3kBbj3kBbj3kCQx3kDWr3kDwA3kEMw3kEuD3kFjw3kWJb@[/CUETABLE]
I've always heard Grady say it's a legal shot. At the same time if you hit with follow, I don't see how you could help but double hitting the cue ball.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Nov 18, 2005
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blackeee said:
I've always heard Grady say it's a legal shot. At the same time if you hit with follow, I don't see how you could help but double hitting the cue ball.
THe score is very important what you do her. You can take a scratch and leave him straigt in on the two ball froze to the end rail he is on getting a one ball shot unless the ball you spot gives him a dead combanation. And all the balls are faceing your whole. Or maybe you can jack up and macey the bank and get position behind the balls. If you can shoot the shot with out fowling. But the score is a big factor. And leaving him straight in would be the easeast control shot that I see. And he cannot do to much damage from thier. THats all I see thats any good.
 

newfosgatesucks

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Thanks...

Thanks...

Guys, I realize the shot is considered legal, and a great shot. I just feel like I have done wrong if I use it in play. By the way I do kind of like Arties reply here, good move.

I guess what gets me is I am by nature a nine ball player, converting into Uno Pocketo, and I am so close to never playing 9 again. And in nineball, we all know, a stroke that allows PROLONGED CONTACT with the cueball is considered a foul.

I am seeing now the general consensus here is that it is fine. I am going to practice the variable angles this comes into play. Thanks guys.....
 

Cowboy Dennis

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"push-shot" bank

"push-shot" bank

Whether you need one ball or all five, there is not any reason in the world not to bank the 7 and play shapes to bank the 2 ball next. If you don't get on the 2 straight back, you can always send it to your hole two rails and ship the rock down table. Of course it's sometimes hard to see all the angles and such on these diagrams. The worst that can happen is you miss the 7 and give up a cross corner bank on it. But you are not supposed to miss that shot, most times.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Hitting the cueball twice

Hitting the cueball twice

blackeee said:
I've always heard Grady say it's a legal shot. At the same time if you hit with follow, I don't see how you could help but double hitting the cue ball.
Set it up as shown and hit it with follow. Just try to hit the cueball twice. It's moving away at the same speed as the 7. You must be quick. Not meaning to be a wiseguy but this is another thing that players like to argue about. At the risk of repeating myself: if you and I are playing for $1000.00 and you have this situation come up, as long as the balls are frozen I will not even watch the shot, except from my chair. But that's just me. I already know that almost everyone else in the world will tell you that you need to be careful on this shot. I have made shots like this playing Cornbread Red and the only thing he said was "good shot". And he did the same to me. Never a problem unless you are playing a nit.
 
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newfosgatesucks

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Now then...

Now then...

Now everyone has replied, let's say its not frozen. If you push through does it cost you a ball, or play it like it lays? Would this be the ever-so-rare case of a ball restore after shot, and if you moved several balls what would the ruling be? Moving many balls on a foul or with a hand/arm during stroke can be ruled loss of game in tournament play I assume???
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Push shots

Push shots

newfosgatesucks said:
Now everyone has replied, let's say its not frozen. If you push through does it cost you a ball, or play it like it lays? Would this be the ever-so-rare case of a ball restore after shot, and if you moved several balls what would the ruling be? Moving many balls on a foul or with a hand/arm during stroke can be ruled loss of game in tournament play I assume???
If the balls are not frozen but very close, it is very likely that you will hit the cueball twice on this shot. That is usually avoided by an astute opponent calling attention to the fact that the balls are not frozen and that you are about to double-hit the cueball if you proceed. Only a full masse' shot can prevent the double hit if you are too close to the object ball. If you insist on shooting this shot after being warned of the double-hit possibility, then you open yourself up to any argument by your opponent that you fouled on the shot.
 

newfosgatesucks

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push me...but dont hit me twice...

push me...but dont hit me twice...

I do understand the shot is a foul, if not froze, I was more curious about the ruling. If a player intentionally fouls here, and it disturbs other balls, what would happen then?
Just one more reason I avoid the shot even if froze. If I cant win by doing something else, I usually kick somewhere or relocate whitey to a good place unless taking an intentional behind the ball is stronger.






Cowboy Dennis said:
If the balls are not frozen but very close, it is very likely that you will hit the cueball twice on this shot. That is usually avoided by an astute opponent calling attention to the fact that the balls are not frozen and that you are about to double-hit the cueball if you proceed. Only a full masse' shot can prevent the double hit if you are too close to the object ball. If you insist on shooting this shot after being warned of the double-hit possibility, then you open yourself up to any argument by your opponent that you fouled on the shot.
 

gulfportdoc

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newfosgatesucks said:
I do understand the shot is a foul, if not froze, I was more curious about the ruling. If a player intentionally fouls here, and it disturbs other balls, what would happen then?
Section 6 in the 1P rules covers these situations:

http://www.onepocket.org/one_pocket_pool_rules.htm

The CB plays from where it rests. If other balls were disturbed by the player's hand or cuestick, they can be replaced or left alone at the option of the opponent.

I think it's interesting that, for this type of foul, any balls scored for the opponent stay scored, and not spotted.

Doc
 
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