One Pocket rule change

wincardona

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 7, 2007
Messages
7,408
Hi Keith, No, you've got it right.
My sense of the use of the cube is that from game to game the cube will be offered quickly but rarely accepted. This will speed up games considerably and therefore matches.

Once a player has a significant lead in a game with a neutral table position the cube will be offered and in most cases will be declined. Games will fly by. Very few games will reach the stage where the score is close and the balls are up table an out of play. When that rare instance occurs when the cube is accepted, two or possibly four games will have been completed in the time it takes to play a single game! Can you imagine the flock of spectators converging on that table when they discover a single game now has the value of four games? :eek:

Tom
What you say, and how you envision it is fine, however, playing with the cube is not an easy thing to do..in terms of management. There's an art in handling the cube and winning gamblers send the cube well before "significant leads" But I do agree that playing with the cube would attract much more attention to certain matches at certain times.

Dr. Bill
 

Tom Wirth

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 5, 2004
Messages
2,619
What you say, and how you envision it is fine, however, playing with the cube is not an easy thing to do..in terms of management. There's an art in handling the cube and winning gamblers send the cube well before "significant leads" But I do agree that playing with the cube would attract much more attention to certain matches at certain times.

Dr. Bill
Bill,
You are correct. The art of handling the cube is difficult to manage. And many times the cube will be offered very quickly. I believe top players on occasion will tend to accept the cube readily as well even with more than a modest deficit knowing they now have control of the cube.

The strategy would be very interesting as well. What might two top players do, one with the break and the score 2 - 2 in a race to four? Would the strategy be to offer the cube on his first inning after the break should he break well? Would the second player accept knowing the set is over either way? Many scenarios come to mind.

And Keith, You also are correct in that we will see fewer end games played but not all. IMO it is the up table game that consumes the bulk of time played during matches. A shot clock won't fix that.

One of the ideas thrown around here has been to play a shortened version of the game using fewer balls. I have seen One Pocket played with a nine ball rack. The break is made by sending the cue ball two rails into the back two balls. This can be a very effective break. The corner ball frequently goes in the shooter's pocket. Talk about fast action, this is it!

These ideas may be flawed and may not last but I for one would love to see and play in a tournament based on either of these two ideas.

Tom
 

bstroud

Verified Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
1,426
Bill, isn't that a little extreme? Your suggestion on "break and run" has taken away all the strategy in the game.:eek: Talking about attacking the integrity of the game:mad: I can't wait till The Ghost (one pocket purist) gets at ya for this, better be careful when taking that trip to Chicago.:heh
:focus

Dr. Bill
Thanks for the advice Billy,

I'm just tossing out ideas that come to mind.

We all know tournament play is different and will never be successful on TV until it fits into some kind of time format so they can get their precious adds in.

I played on some two pocket tables in Joplin MO many years ago and they weren't as bad as you might think. Lots of new shots.

I like one pocket as it is but prefer the shooting side of it to the safety side.
I just like to run balls. The rest of the game is to give me the opportunity to do so.

Bill S.
 

Frank Almanza

Verified Member
Joined
Aug 31, 2005
Messages
2,402
I bet this thread is having some of the old time one pocket players turning over in their graves. Shame on us for our ideas.
 

Cowboy Dennis

Suspended
Joined
Dec 16, 2008
Messages
11,123
I really liked the 60 second shot clock in the Make It Happen One-Pocket. For tournament play it's a good idea without going overboard. I think I saw a couple of shot-clock violations too, Efren being the one I remember right now. He just lost track of the clock. There was also an extension available.

I think if all object balls were uptable (past the side pockets) the shot clock could be changed to 30 seconds. That would definitely speed up the end games.

If Corey Deuel can't find a way to lose a game he should win in 60 secs. he shouldn't be there anyway.

Dennis
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
These are the speed up rules I copyrighted years ago. They are often erroneously referred to as "Grady's Rules." The reason being Grady used a variation in one of his 1pkt tournaments after he asked me for my permission to use them.


1.__ Draw a balk line from diamond one on long rail to diamond one on short rail
on both sides of the table. This will be designated Balk Area 1.

2.__ Draw another set of diagonal balk lines between the points of the back corner
pockets. This will be designated Balk Area 2.
a. ____When there are less than 8 balls on the table the balk area recedes to the
smaller space between the points of the corner pockets, designated Balk Area 2,
and we now spot only the balls that lie in that smaller space.

3. __When there are 8 balls or more on the table and they have all traveled past
the second diamond at the foot of the table, the 3 balls closest to the head
rail are to be spotted up except in cases where balls are in balk. Balls in balk
will always have precedence in the spotting order.
a. ____If a ball is pocketed in a non–scoring pocket by the outgoing player, it is
placed on the foot spot and that in itself constitutes a ball outside the balk
area and no other balls need to be spotted.
b.____ If more than 3 balls qualify to be spotted up, the order of preference is:
(1.) _____Any ball pocketed in a neutral pocket
(2.) _____All balls within Balk Area 2
(3.) _____All balls within Balk Area 1.
(4.) _____Balls closest to the back rail.
(5.) _____If balls are equally located the low numbered ball is spotted.
c. ____No more than 3 balls can be spotted altogether.
 

Attachments

Ken_4fun

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2011
Messages
233
I don't like it and I wont accept it.

You guys would take Ann Margret and try to dye her hair black....:frus
 

Attachments

bstroud

Verified Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
1,426
Freddy,

I like any rules as lone as people are gambling.

I think for tournament play less balls would make the game more attractive for more people.

We are a fast society now and peoples attention span grows shorter and shorter. It's the video games, I guess.

The 13 ball game seems like a good compromise. After all we could add another row of balls and make the game even slower.

Best,

Bill S.
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,324
I'm a purist as well, doesn't your suggestion attack the integrity of the game, somewhat? I'm not saying that I don't like your idea, it's a very subtle change that would be different and exciting.

Dr. Bill
Yes, but as I said already - it is the least objectionable/integrity soiling alteration, if a tournament venue insisted on some type of shortening of the game.

- Ghost
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,324
Tom, thanks for the quick response. I think the cube would change the game completely. There would not be many games where a players would come from behind. How many great games where a player is down 4 balls with all the balls uptable and he banks his way into a winner from a poor situation would never get to be seen? I would hate to be at a tounament where 2 great players are matched up and only get to see 1 game because the cube has been taken 2 or 3 times and a single game decides the set. I see stronger players putting immediate pressure on their weaker opponents by offerring the cube in the 2nd inning. I also see end of the "end game" as we know it today.

One pocket is the great game that it is because of its current rules. I say again if a player is playing SLOOW the tournament officials must take action with that specific player. Keith

Keith, I agree with all you said here 100%...the idea of using the cube in tournament play is ludicrous...

The place for the cube to be used is between two hardcore gamblers/one pocket players...in that spot, it is a very interesting, dynamic way to gamble.

- Ghost
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,324
It is in the early rounds that most of these SLOW players bog the brackets down.

We all know that SLOW play impacts a lot more than the two players in the long match.

I don't like messing with the tournament rules. I am not a purist, but I do believe that if it is not broke, don't fix it.

OnePocket.org rules do not address 'slow play' they leave it up to the 'general rules' category of the World Standardized Rules which state;

Under Section 6; FOULS

6.15 Slow Play
If the referee feels that a player is playing too slowly, he may advise that player to speed up his play. If the player does not speed up, the referee may impose a shot clock on that match that applies to both players. If the shooter exceeds the time limit specified for the tournament, a standard foul will be called and the incoming player is rewarded according to the rules applicable to the game being played. (Rule 6.16 Unsportsmanlike Conduct may also apply.)

If the tournament officials will take the time to enforce the rules as they should be the slow players just might speed up their play.

Changing the game because of 'slow play' is not (IMO) a good enough reason. Increasing the penalty(s) for slow play effects the culprits not the game.

Enforce the rules, and make 'Slow Play' violation more severe.

I agree with this.

- Ghost
 

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,324
Excellent points John. Corey is an exception, and you're right about his creativity, and about how long it takes him to figure things out. Matter of fact when we were up in N.J. at the "Make It Happen" one pocket tournament, Corey said to me that the shot clock hurt his game and that he shot shots that he wasn't happy with because the clock was running out on him. Coincidentally, that conversation took place directly after a match that he lost.:lol

Dr. Bill

I don't see this as 'sour grapes' by Corey whatsoever..I support what he said - because that shot clock was a fukkin bad joke of a rule.

- Gh:cool:st
 

fred bentivegna

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 2, 2005
Messages
6,690
Freddy,

I like any rules as lone as people are gambling.

I think for tournament play less balls would make the game more attractive for more people.

We are a fast society now and peoples attention span grows shorter and shorter. It's the video games, I guess.

The 13 ball game seems like a good compromise. After all we could add another row of balls and make the game even slower.

Best,

Bill S.
13 balls or 11 aint the worst idea I ever heard.

Beard
 

bstroud

Verified Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
1,426
Freddy,

For tournaments it could go 9 or 13 balls in the opening rounds and graduate to 15 as there were less players.

Not a bad idea for bank either.

Will have to try it.

Bill S.
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
8,971
Advocates of 11 or 13 balls -- wouldn't players who were inclined -- the same that are inclined today -- just start sending balls uptable earlier? I'm not sure this would have the intended consequences.

My opinion is simple -- leave the game rules alone and just settle on some easy to understand options like shot clock and/or shorter count and/or reduced balls in the kitchen -- but only in those situations where players have already been warned and are still dragging it... TD tools to enforce no slow play!
 

bstroud

Verified Member
Joined
May 29, 2010
Messages
1,426
Another idea would be a free (bonus? or 8) ball that could shot in any pocket so you could continue to run balls in your pocket?

It would be spotted after your inning.

Could make for a very interesting game as you would need to protect it all the time.

Bill S.
 

NH Steve

Administrator
Joined
Apr 25, 2004
Messages
8,971
Another idea would be a free (bonus? or 8) ball that could shot in any pocket so you could continue to run balls in your pocket?

It would be spotted after your inning.

Could make for a very interesting game as you would need to protect it all the time.

Bill S.
Sorry I don't know if that is a joke in reference to Bonus Ball or not, Bill, but it sounds like too radical an idea.

Speaking of radical ideas, how about this one -- every time you legally pocket a ball in your own pocket, you can also "pick" one from inside the headstring (except the last ball). That should speed things up a bit :D:D As I said before, I am only talking about options for the TD to speed up play when players have been warned but still continue to drag.

Of course, a shot clock simply eliminates the problem. The only problem with a shot clock is TD's would have to have them, and right now they often don't :D
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
9,966
That's what I like about you Art, you're easy to get along with.:D I thought Tom Wirth was the voice of reason. Just don't understand why when it comes to me, you're not so accommodating:frus

Dr. Bill
Billy, it's just that you offer such a cornucopia of items to tease.;) But I LOVE ya, bro! You're my HOMEBOY!!!

Are you coming to Mobile? Although I imagine that last fiasco kinda soured you.

Doc
 
Last edited:

One Pocket Ghost

Verified Member
Joined
May 25, 2004
Messages
9,324
The lag was huge in Vegas I thought, since so many games went hill-hill and whoever won the lag broke for the last game, often leaving their opponent in trouble that they never recovered from.

Re. that...I've always hated how winning the lag or the flip of a coin gives that player such a HUGE advantage in winning a short race - just as I've always hated the overtime rule in football that gives the flip winner a chance to win the game while the other team gets no chance - that rule is an abomination in my opinion...anyway, back to One Pocket...

I posted this up once before a few years ago, about how many years ago when I used to run the Chris's Billiards monthly One Pocket tournaments I negated that lag-winning advantage...the rule that I invented and instituted in those tournaments was this...

If the match went to hill-hill, the had to spot his opponent 9-8...however the second part to my rule was a slight nod to the lag/flip winner - he had the choice of spotting his opponent the 9-8, or relinquishing the break to his opponent and taking the 9-8 spot for himself instead, if he liked that better...

Everybody liked this rule, which as I said, made the hill-hill matches more fair.

- Ghost

PS, Although the lag-winner would still be profiting some with his lagging skills - since it's pretty much accepted, that the break is worth more than 9-8.
 
Top