Ok. Wwyd here?

LSJohn

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I agree with you that while possible, playing off the five as John suggests is risky, like all other options.

I do think that looking back at the original close up view posted, one can't make the seven and draw the CB without it coming out away from the bottom rail. Do you disagree? And do you not think from this close you couldn't more often than not jaw the seven and send it up table while definitely drawing the CB back along the bottom rail.

Maybe I'm all wet, but it sure looks to me that pocketing the seven requires an off center hit?
Me too on every point.
 

darmoose

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Me too on every point.
Thank you John.

All of the suggestions made so far have risk, no doubt. My calculation is that getting the CB on the bottom rail somewhere on the opponents side below the two carries the least risk, and if I jaw the seven and it gets only even a few inches up table I'm good.

As tough a spot as Mitch is in, this is a "hit em and hope"
 

WCRanger

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If I were confident I could double him up shooting the rail first shot on the 7ball that's the shot that I would shoot. If I didn't like that shot for any reason I would pocket the 7ball and draw back past the center of the foot rail and play from there. Trailing 5 balls to 2 balls is very surmountable for a reasonably good player with the balls in play, as they are here. Also, if you're able to position the cue ball where I suggested you're making it difficult for your opponent to follow with a shot and protect his 5ball, yes it can be done, but not easily.

Dr. Bill
Rail first into the 7 sounds like a great shot if you're confident enough to pull it off. I would only be worried about your opponent being able to get at and clear balls by your pocket. You've got so many threats on your side and I would do my best to protect them.
 

lll

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Rail first into the 7 sounds like a great shot if you're confident enough to pull it off. I would only be worried about your opponent being able to get at and clear balls by your pocket. You've got so many threats on your side and I would do my best to protect them.
how would you do that?????
 

lll

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if the alternatives with the 7 dont look good at the table
i might cross the 5 to my side and decide how far up table along his side rail or on the head cushion
looks like a good landing spot
View attachment 12813
Thin off the five and put the cue ball near the side pocket. The five will come out where he can't cut it and the banks are blocked.

Sometimes simple is the best.:D
This would be my choice if it could be done.. Hide the two ball while bringing the five out so that it could not be cut in. Also taking the kick away on the seven ball.

View attachment 12816
i may have drawn too many options with my lines but the gist is what john/frank suggest
........
hitting/making the 7 and drawing past the the center diamond if doable is still a better shot i think since the 7 is a more dangerous ball for me than the 5
jmho
 

wincardona

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I agree with you that while possible, playing off the five as John suggests is risky, like all other options.

I do think that looking back at the original close up view posted, one can't make the seven and draw the CB without it coming out away from the bottom rail. Do you disagree? And do you not think from this close you couldn't more often than not jaw the seven and send it up table while definitely drawing the CB back along the bottom rail.

Maybe I'm all wet, but it sure looks to me that pocketing the seven requires an off center hit?
I believe that pocketing the 7ball and drawing the cue ball back is not a problematic shot, if I thought that it was for the reasons you explained, then I would draw back with speed and double the pocket with the 7ball sending it away from the pocket. If the 7ball is far enough away from the rail then after doubling the corners it will leave on a angle that will send it away from the bottom rail by hitting the outside of the corner as opposed to the inside of the corners..either up the side rail or away from the bottom rail.


Dr. Bill
 
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onepockethacker

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i may have drawn too many options with my lines but the gist is what john/frank suggest
........
hitting/making the 7 and drawing past the the center diamond if doable is still a better shot i think since the 7 is a more dangerous ball for me than the 5
jmho
The chances of hitting that shot perfect(which is what it has to be hit) and not leave the cut on the 5, the bank on the 2 or the kick on the 7 are slim and none.. Now back to planet earth
 

jtompilot

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I believe that pocketing the 7ball and drawing the cue ball back is not a problematic shot, if I thought that it was for the reasons you explained, then I would draw back with speed and double the pocket with the 7ball sending it away from the pocket. If the 7ball is far enough away from the rail then after doubling the corners it will leave on a angle that will send it away from the bottom rail by hitting the outside of the corner as opposed to the inside of the corners..either up the side rail or away from the bottom rail.


Dr. Bill
I think making the 7 and drawing back to not leave the 2 ball bank is a bigger problem than you think with that angle. But playing if off the point you could probably freeze the QB to the 2 or below it
 

darmoose

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I believe that pocketing the 7ball and drawing the cue ball back is not a problematic shot, if I thought that it was for the reasons you explained, then I would draw back with speed and double the pocket with the 7ball sending it away from the pocket. If the 7ball is far enough away from the rail then after doubling the corners it will leave on a angle that will send it away from the bottom rail by hitting the outside of the corner as opposed to the inside of the corners..either up the side rail or away from the bottom rail.


Dr. Bill
Thanks for the response, Dr. Bill. Not trying to overwork this, but since Hacker likes to have you do the math (which I think You do exquisitely), what odds would you make on your doubling the pocket with the seven, and sending it up table, while pulling the CB back along the bottom rail, (noting that if you played this shot the score also stays 4-2.

Not getting to shoot a shot like this hardly ever, I just wonder what a pro thinks the odds are??:D
 

lll

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The chances of hitting that shot perfect(which is what it has to be hit) and not leave the cut on the 5, the bank on the 2 or the kick on the 7 are slim and none.. Now back to planet earth
i guess we are not doing anything with the 5....:frus
 

Frank Almanza

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That shot looks ultra dodgy to me...too thick you catch a kiss...too thin, lose the cue ball....and can you create enough speed to get the 5 ball away from the rail.....seems like a lot can go wrong.
You're right about it being a touchy shot. However another way to get the same results it to hit the five ball almost full and just a speck on the right side of center and drive it straight ahead while gently spinning the cue ball toward the side pocket. I just tried it a couple of times and it worked just fine.
 

LSJohn

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You're right about it being a touchy shot. However another way to get the same results it to hit the five ball almost full and just a speck on the right side of center and drive it straight ahead while gently spinning the cue ball toward the side pocket. I just tried it a couple of times and it worked just fine.
If I were playin' the 5, that's definitely my way to do it, and it's a pretty good choice IMO.
 

WCRanger

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how would you do that?????
I understand with the cue so close to the rail that you would be jacked up a bit but you should be able to come off of the 5 with a bit of left to send the cue into the side rail and down to the bottom rail right next to the 7. If you send the 5 far enough away, your opponent is either feathering the seven and playing cue ball somewhere up table, or kicking and possibly taking a foul. Maybe it's not possible (I won't be able to try it out until Saturday because of work) but I sure would take a look at it. My main goal being to get the 5 out of play for my opponent. I don't like a ball there that cuts in from anywhere north of the foot spot. If that option isn't feasible, I would go for Billy's shot and rail first the 7 to double up on the two preventing the return bank. But, I'm also pretty new to the game and don't totally understand the concepts yet.
 

koldcash

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You're right about it being a touchy shot. However another way to get the same results it to hit the five ball almost full and just a speck on the right side of center and drive it straight ahead while gently spinning the cue ball toward the side pocket. I just tried it a couple of times and it worked just fine.
I like this a lot better....slither up by the side with the spin and a fuller hit....just get that cue ball up where he is doubled up on the 2 by the 4 ball....yes I like it.
 

wincardona

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You're right about it being a touchy shot. However another way to get the same results it to hit the five ball almost full and just a speck on the right side of center and drive it straight ahead while gently spinning the cue ball toward the side pocket. I just tried it a couple of times and it worked just fine.
Frank, from the angle I see it doesn't look like you can follow through the 5ball to get where you need to go and stay close to the side rail, if the 5ball was further up on the side rail then the angle wouldn't be as steep and you could then follow through it. That's the way I see it.

Dr. Bill
 

onepockethacker

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For those XBOX players that like coming off the 5 ball...:lol:lol You guys have to land the cue ball on a dime to not either leave the FREE 2 ball bank or the FREE 1 rail 7 ball kick.. that is of course if you don't double kiss the 5 or hit it too thin and leave a back cut on the 5 ball to a HUGE pocket.. To go up the side rail you have to hit the 5 ball right of center!!
 

onepockethacker

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The double the tit option Billy suggested can definitely work but depending on the pockets you can end up tripling the tit and the 7 ball come right back at you so its a gamble but you are in a bad spot so its viable.
 

onepockethacker

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If making the 7 ball and drawing back looks tougher at the table than in this pic.... I would jack up move the 5 ball and try and draw behind the 7 ball. Even if I dont totally hook him from seeing the 2 ball Im going to bump the 7 ball away from the pocket which makes banking the 2 ball into not so automatic and if he decides to swing at the 4 ball bank he will not have such a huge pocket... If I hook him I become a favorite to win
 

darmoose

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The double the tit option Billy suggested can definitely work but depending on the pockets you can end up tripling the tit and the 7 ball come right back at you so its a gamble but you are in a bad spot so its viable.
Hey.....Hacker.....that ain't Billy's shot. I'm the only one advocating that shot, and it may be the least risky of the bunch. I'll ask you what I asked Dr Bill. What are the odds of you pulling that shot off, if you shot it Mr Math??
 

onepockethacker

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Hey.....Hacker.....that ain't Billy's shot. I'm the only one advocating that shot, and it may be the least risky of the bunch. I'll ask you what I asked Dr Bill. What are the odds of you pulling that shot off, if you shot it Mr Math??
It all depends on the pocket literally. Some pockets the ball will go up the side rail others it will come back at you. Do you really want to find out in this situation which one will happen?
 
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