Ochoa-Frost 2010 DCC finals

jtompilot

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Now hit that 3 and leave the qb close to the 7. That will put some heat on.
 

gulfportdoc

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And the Ochoa choice is...

And the Ochoa choice is...

Well you lads are just too good at spotting the shot which Ochoa took.:) He did shoot through the 3 ball then off the long rail to freeze on the 7.

It took me awhile to see the shot; and when I did, it seemed like a real risk with the kiss on the 3 coming off the rail. Cardone is right-- it's the best shot if one can shoot it as accurately as did Ochoa. I still think it took some ice water in his veins to pull the trigger on that one, but I showed it because the execution was near perfect, especially shooting off the head rail. ~Doc


Ochoa-Frost 3.jpg

Ochoa-Frost 4.jpg
 

NH Steve

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Ochoa-Frost 2010 DCC finals

Good one Doc -- thanks for digging this up
 

onepockethacker

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Obviously kicking at the 7 ball was the better option:rolleyes: ... NOT Dont worry Billy keep trying... you will start seeing the right shots..:D Following through the 3 ball was a ROUTINE shot and the blatantly obvious shot for most
 

Frank Almanza

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My quetion is what ball do you think went past first to avoid the kiss? I think it was the three ball.
 

Cory in dc

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My quetion is what ball do you think went past first to avoid the kiss? I think it was the three ball.
I agree: the 3 is gone and then the cue passes over the 3-ball line.

Next question: Sylver just left you frozen on the 7 you can't see the bottom of the 13 ball (whatever stripe is there at the bottom of the stack). WWYD??

 

jtompilot

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I agree: the 3 is gone and then the cue passes over the 3-ball line.

Next question: Sylver just left you frozen on the 7 you can't see the bottom of the 13 ball (whatever stripe is there at the bottom of the stack). WWYD??

The only thing I can think of is to Draw off the 6 to just under the 8 or into it. The 6 caroms off 10 and goes in hole:)
 

wincardona

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All I can say is he made a very good shot but ig wasn't as easy as he made it appear. He's a top player and that was a top player shot. Shots like that one are a lot easier to spot than to execute, I guess I'm just getting old and timid.

Dr.Bill
 

Cory in dc

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The only thing I can think of is to Draw off the 6 to just under the 8 or into it. The 6 caroms off 10 and goes in hole:)
You mean the 3? Looks mighty tight to get the cue to/under the 8 without nipping the stripe (the 11, I think). Of course, since you made the 3 off the 10, the sellout doesn't matter!

I'd probably decide that I'm hopelessly stuck and have to shoot my way out by banking the 15-ball. Gives me a maybe 30% chance to escape. All the safe attempts seem at least as tough or more.
 

wincardona

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Well you lads are just too good at spotting the shot which Ochoa took.:) He did shoot through the 3 ball then off the long rail to freeze on the 7.

It took me awhile to see the shot; and when I did, it seemed like a real risk with the kiss on the 3 coming off the rail. Cardone is right-- it's the best shot if one can shoot it as accurately as did Ochoa. I still think it took some ice water in his veins to pull the trigger on that one, but I showed it because the execution was near perfect, especially shooting off the head rail. ~Doc


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View attachment 8931
Thank you Art, I have been getting some PM'S about my shot choice in this thread, however, shot choice should be based on one's skill level. Like I mentioned, and you picked up, the soft kick on the 7ball was the right shot for a very high percentage of the players that play one pocket because of the simplicity of the hit in comparison to the difficult hit with shooting the 3ball option. Yes the 3ball option was the more effective shot providing it's struck well but there was even a more effective shot than the 3ball and that was the 11ball, the ball that is positioned to the left of the foot spot. Just jack up and drill it and then run out.:heh So, all the players that chose the 3ball are happy with the way Sylver executed the shot, I don't blame them. Now all they need to do when playing one pocket is to have "Sylver" shoot all their tough to execute hits...and then everything will be just fine.:lol:sorry

Dr. Bill
 

gulfportdoc

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My quetion is what ball do you think went past first to avoid the kiss? I think it was the three ball.
Yeah, Frank. The 3 ball caromed pretty quickly from the 8 off the rail, and passed in front of the CB by more than two ball widths. I had thought the kiss would have been much closer, but it really wasn't there. We all get much closer to a collision shooting relatively common pass-over cross-corners.

Doc
 

wincardona

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Thank you Art, I have been getting some PM'S about my shot choice in this thread, however, shot choice should be based on one's skill level. Like I mentioned, and you picked up, the soft kick on the 7ball was the right shot for a very high percentage of the players that play one pocket because of the simplicity of the hit in comparison to the difficult hit with shooting the 3ball option. Yes the 3ball option was the more effective shot providing it's struck well but there was even a more effective shot than the 3ball and that was the 11ball, the ball that is positioned to the left of the foot spot. Just jack up and drill it and then run out.:heh So, all the players that chose the 3ball are happy with the way Sylver executed the shot, I don't blame them. Now all they need to do when playing one pocket is to have "Sylver" shoot all their tough to execute hits...and then everything will be just fine.:lol:sorry

Dr. Bill
One of the most crucial areas when playing one pocket, or for that matter when playing .."any game" is understanding what our capabilities are, and play within them. Some times we have to make concessions when choosing the second or even third "most effective" shot when playing but in doing so we will win a higher percentage of games because we understand what we don't figure to be able to do. (lesser of two evils) The first evil is understanding what shots are one's to avoid. The second evil is understanding the consequence we face when choosing another option. And then based off of our feel for the situation, we then choose an option. It's simply a "give and take" decision, and the more we play the better understanding we have of when to give..or take.

Yes, when avoiding shots that are effective but difficult, we "give" away the benefit of the shot. However, we "take" the assurance of not committing an error, and that's where many games are won and lost.

Dr. Bill
 
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gulfportdoc

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To me, the deciding factor on the shot choice in this layout was that the CB was practically frozen to the head rail. With the CB 1 or 2 feet off the rail, the 3-ball shot would be a lot less daunting. Ochoa stroked it beautifully, and got a good result. Of course, he's a pro.

BTW he hasn't "been in the news" much lately. Is he still playing professionally, or did he get smart?;)

Doc
 

wincardona

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Yeah, Frank. The 3 ball caromed pretty quickly from the 8 off the rail, and passed in front of the CB by more than two ball widths. I had thought the kiss would have been much closer, but it really wasn't there. We all get much closer to a collision shooting relatively common pass-over cross-corners.

Doc
Depending on the distance between the 3ball and 8ball and the angle going into the 3ball will give us a clear picture on the likeliness of a kiss happening. In this situation the 3ball was positioned closely to the 8ball, and the angle going into the 3ball suggested that the 8ball would leave quickly, as opposed to leaving slowly. This was due to the 3ball not "cutting" the 8ball too much as to slow the movement down with the 8ball. Once we have an understanding of the possibility of the kiss occurring, or not occurring, our decision with choosing the option is a much easier one. However, we still need to execute the shot well in order to control the cue ball to an area that it needs to end up in.

If the option with the 3ball was close to a kiss, then imo, the shot should be avoided, even for a top player because of the other complications with the shot. But if the kiss isn't a factor, then for a top player the shot is much more appealing, and one that figures to be chosen.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Yeah, Frank. The 3 ball caromed pretty quickly from the 8 off the rail, and passed in front of the CB by more than two ball widths. I had thought the kiss would have been much closer, but it really wasn't there. We all get much closer to a collision shooting relatively common pass-over cross-corners.

Doc
Depending on the distance between the 3ball and 8ball and the angle going into the 3ball will give us a clear picture on the likeliness of a kiss happening. In this situation the 3ball was positioned closely to the 8ball, and the angle going into the 3ball suggested that the 8ball would leave quickly, as opposed to leaving slowly. This was due to the 3ball not "cutting" the 8ball too much as to slow the movement down with the 8ball. Once we have an understanding of the possibility of the kiss occurring, or not occurring, our decision with choosing the option is a much easier one. However, we still need to execute the shot well in order to control the cue ball to an area that it needs to end up in.

If the option with the 3ball was close to a kiss, then imo, the shot should be avoided, even for a top player because of the other complications with the shot. But if the kiss isn't a factor, then for a top player the shot is much more appealing, and one that figures to be chosen.

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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Thank you Art, I have been getting some PM'S about my shot choice in this thread, however, shot choice should be based on one's skill level. Like I mentioned, and you picked up, the soft kick on the 7ball was the right shot for a very high percentage of the players that play one pocket because of the simplicity of the hit in comparison to the difficult hit with shooting the 3ball option. Yes the 3ball option was the more effective shot providing it's struck well but there was even a more effective shot than the 3ball and that was the 11ball, the ball that is positioned to the left of the foot spot. Just jack up and drill it and then run out.:heh So, all the players that chose the 3ball are happy with the way Sylver executed the shot, I don't blame them. Now all they need to do when playing one pocket is to have "Sylver" shoot all their tough to execute hits...and then everything will be just fine.:lol:sorry

Dr. Bill
One of the most crucial areas when playing one pocket, or for that matter when playing .."any game" is understanding what our capabilities are, and play within them. Some times we have to make concessions when choosing the second or even third "most effective" shot when playing but in doing so we will win a higher percentage of games because we understand what we don't figure to be able to do. (lesser of two evils) The first evil is understanding what shots are one's to avoid. The second evil is understanding the consequence we face when choosing another option. And then based off of our feel for the situation, we then choose an option. It's simply a "give and take" decision, and the more we play the better understanding we have of when to give..or take.

Whenever we avoid an effective but difficult shot to execute what we are "giving" is the benefit the shot carries. However, when we choose a safer option what we are "taking" is the assurance of ..not committing an error with the "passed option" Many more games are lost as opposed to won by those who don't understand this principle.

Dr. Bill
 
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jtompilot

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You mean the 3? Looks mighty tight to get the cue to/under the 8 without nipping the stripe (the 11, I think). Of course, since you made the 3 off the 10, the sellout doesn't matter!

I'd probably decide that I'm hopelessly stuck and have to shoot my way out by banking the 15-ball. Gives me a maybe 30% chance to escape. All the safe attempts seem at least as tough or more.
The 3 was just moved so I think the 6 is the ball. Yea the angle is tight.

I thought about the 15 but don't think there will be much after that.
 

wincardona

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Depending on the distance between the 3ball and 8ball and the angle going into the 3ball will give us a clear picture on the likeliness of a kiss happening. In this situation the 3ball was positioned closely to the 8ball, and the angle going into the 3ball suggested that the 8ball would leave quickly, as opposed to leaving slowly. This was due to the 3ball not "cutting" the 8ball too much as to slow the movement down with the 8ball. Once we have an understanding of the possibility of the kiss occurring, or not occurring, our decision with choosing the option is a much easier one. However, we still need to execute the shot well in order to control the cue ball to an area that it needs to end up in.

If the option with the 3ball was close to a kiss, then imo, the shot should be avoided, even for a top player because of the other complications with the shot. But if the kiss isn't a factor, then for a top player the shot is much more appealing, and one that figures to be chosen.

Dr. Bill
BRAIN FART Disregard everything I said about the kiss and my explanation of what could happen, I actually envisioned the 8ball positioned to the other side of the 3ball and the kiss happening with the 8ball.:confused: :frus

It actually all depends on how quickly the 3ball departs from the 8ball, the quicker the 3ball departs the less likely there will be a kiss.:sorry

Dr. Bill
 

jtompilot

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Dear Dr. Bill, if there is a standard 1P shot this is it.

You just have to apply the two balls on the spot shot. Doesn't everyone shoot this shot from behind the head string. Haven't we been talking about the spot shot from different angles and putting the QB on one side or the other or hitting it a little fuller from straighter on. It's the same shot for gods sake.

Any C player should be able to shoot it.
 
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