Nice safety exchange at Carolina's 1P

NH Steve

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One of the many entertaining matches during the Carolina's Open 1P was local NC player Norris Brady vs Bustamante on the loser's side. Brady appeared to be a pretty experienced 1P player with a real nice touch with the cue ball. Whereas of course Francisco might be the very best ball-runner in the world today.

Anyway, I happened to get a photo during this match when this situation came up that I thought fellow One Pocket players might appreciate.

In the photo that's Brady's pocket right behind him, so it looks like he is seriously thinking about two-railing the 11-ball towards his pocket, and drawing the cue ball back against the little cluster near where he is now -- hoping not to make the 11 but rather to leave it close to his hole and put Bustamante in a little trouble by snookering him on it. He didn't shoot that shot -- mainly because I think the angle was a little off, in that he would have needed to cut the 11 to get the proper route on the 11-ball, and that meant he couldn't hold the cue ball safely locked onto the top of that 1-15 cluster.

The 6 was pretty much dead towards Bustamante's pocket "B". Brady's pocket is "A".

Here's the wei layout as best I can say. I believe the ball count was about even, and I believe this was the hill-hill match:

START(
%AV3X3%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7%OW5W9
%PX5Y9%QA5[7%RA7A7
)END
 

i'll_bust_you

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illustration

illustration

Hey steve your illustration would be a little clearer if you threw a few arrows in to show where balls were headed. I may be just alittle slow though to follow your written description...
 

NH Steve

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i'll_bust_you said:
Hey steve your illustration would be a little clearer if you threw a few arrows in to show where balls were headed. I may be just alittle slow though to follow your written description...
Okay, here is what I think Brady was considering:
START(
%AV3X3%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7%OW5W9
%PX5Y9%QA5[7%RA7A7%SX1W3%Ur2G5%V\0W0%_n3C8%`p9E1%as0F6%bF0Y1
%c]2K4%dl4C2
)END

But on further consideration he didn't play that shot, because it didn't look like he could bring the 11 near his hole and still hold the cue ball in a safe spot on top of the balls like "C".

I was trying to leave a little suspense on what he actually did shoot -- that''s why I haven't yet posted it :) I will, though -- but I was just curious if any of you all could come up with something...
 

hemicudas

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Short 2 rails

Short 2 rails

NH Steve said:
Okay, here is what I think Brady was considering:
START(
%AV3X3%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7%OW5W9
%PX5Y9%QA5[7%RA7A7%SX1W3%Ur2G5%V\0W0%_n3C8%`p9E1%as0F6%bF0Y1
%c]2K4%dl4C2
)END

But on further consideration he didn't play that shot, because it didn't look like he could bring the 11 near his hole and still hold the cue ball in a safe spot on top of the balls like "C".

I was trying to leave a little suspense on what he actually did shoot -- that''s why I haven't yet posted it :) I will, though -- but I was just curious if any of you all could come up with something...
Looks to me like he can shoot the 2 rail short into the 2 balls closest to the CB breaking them up and draw his ball to the side rail near Busta's pocket and freeze to the 7 ball on the bottom rail. Could be one of those, "Obstetrical" illusions???
 

jrhendy

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Alternative Shot

Alternative Shot

I think he would bank the 12 into the 1/15, break up the combination, send a ball towards his hole and kill the rock behind the one ball.
 

hemicudas

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????

????

jrhendy said:
I think he would bank the 12 into the 1/15, break up the combination, send a ball towards his hole and kill the rock behind the one ball.
John, do you and I have different WEI tables???? LOL. I don't believe the 12 ball is on the table. In the photo he is over the 11 ball as if to shoot it 2 rails toward his pocket. Or am I seeing things???
 

iusedtoberich

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The shot I saw is probably what jrhendy described, but the numbers he used didn't match up.

Bank the 15 into the 6. The 6 will carom off the 13 towards his hole. The 13 will go towards the cue ball starting point. The 15 could stop anywhere, depending on how thick or thin it hit the 6. The cue ball would freeze behind the 1. I think the only thing that could go wrong (besides not controllling the cue ball), is if the 13 hit the 1 or the cueball and let bustamante see a shot on his hole.

WEI below:

START(
%AV3X3%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7%OW5W9
%PX5Y9%QA5[7%RA7A7%WO9D0%XW2W0%YL3K3%ZO4C1%[D3Z2%\K6M0%]S6U0
%^M2M8
)END
 

hemicudas

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iusedtoberich said:
The shot I saw is probably what jrhendy described, but the numbers he used didn't match up.

Bank the 15 into the 6. The 6 will carom off the 13 towards his hole. The 13 will go towards the cue ball starting point. The 15 could stop anywhere, depending on how thick or thin it hit the 6. The cue ball would freeze behind the 1. I think the only thing that could go wrong (besides not controllling the cue ball), is if the 13 hit the 1 or the cueball and let bustamante see a shot on his hole.

WEI below:

START(
%AV3X3%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7%OW5W9
%PX5Y9%QA5[7%RA7A7%WO9D0%XW2W0%YL3K3%ZO4C1%[D3Z2%\K6M0%]S6U0
%^M2M8
)END
That is the first shot I saw, Iusetoberich, but in both the WEI and photo it appears that the 1 and 15 balls are frozen and if he banked the 15 the 1 would move toward his hole leaving an open shot for Buste.
 

hemicudas

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I got the shot............ Iusetoberich is right but you play the combination on the 1 ball throwing it toward the hole with top right (outside) english. The 15 ball goes one rail breaking up the dead combo in Buste's pocket and he places the CB frozen to the 9 ball. TADA!!!!!! The 1 ball might even go in the pocket. Assuming the 1 and 15 are frozen.
 
Last edited:

NH Steve

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I like iusedtoberich's idea -- not sure why Brady didn't do that. With the 6 being dead in Busta's hole, that makes it near dead as a carom into Brady's hole :)

Anyway, what Norris Brady did was to take a scratch, soft kicking to try to bump Busta's dead combo up. But... he rolled a little inside the combo and passed it, on first glance leaving a tasty sell-out on the combination for Bustamante. Until, Norris nonchalantly spotted up his penalty ball for taking the scratch -- which blocked the cue ball :)

START(
%AV3X3%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7%OW5W9
%PX5Y9%QA5[7%RA7A7%SJ6M6%UT7[3%VW6Z3%YD0U6%ZT2[2%]O4P3%^C6T9
)END

Bustamante would have been happy to sleep that scratch! Leaving this:
START(
%AV3X3%BO0O5%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7
%OW5W9%PP6O6%QA5[7%RA7A7%SJ6M6
)END

Anyway, now it was Busta's turn to scratch his head. Not seeing any other great option before him, Bustamante smartly realized that Norris Brady had not liked where he was stuck for the last shot, so he took a scratch and rolled the cue right back to the same spot -- really working over Brady behind that same little cluster!

START(
%AV3X3%BO0O5%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7
%OW5W9%PP6O6%QA5[7%RA7A7%SJ6M6%YW0Z3%ZV0[1%]U3Z3%^P9P9
)END

Now with Brady already on a scratch, and possibly needing to take another one to escape, Brady made a beautiful kick off the seven ball to play safe:

START(
%AV3X3%BO0O5%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7
%OW5W9%PX1Y2%QA5[7%RA7A7%WD6J0%XE4L8%YU6Z9%ZW1Y7%]F2N1%^T0Z7
)END

Brady ended up actually catching a rail with the seven so it didn't cost him a ball. Unfortunately for him, a few safeties later he let a cross corner bank leak out and Bustamante made it and got out!!
 

hemicudas

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NH Steve said:
I like iusedtoberich's idea -- not sure why Brady didn't do that. With the 6 being dead in Busta's hole, that makes it near dead as a carom into Brady's hole :)

Anyway, what Norris Brady did was to take a scratch, soft kicking to try to bump Busta's dead combo up. But... he rolled a little inside the combo and passed it, on first glance leaving a tasty sell-out on the combination for Bustamante. Until, Norris nonchalantly spotted up his penalty ball for taking the scratch -- which blocked the cue ball :)

START(
%AV3X3%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7%OW5W9
%PX5Y9%QA5[7%RA7A7%SJ6M6%UT7[3%VW6Z3%YD0U6%ZT2[2%]O4P3%^C6T9
)END

Bustamante would have been happy to sleep that scratch! Leaving this:
START(
%AV3X3%BO0O5%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7
%OW5W9%PP6O6%QA5[7%RA7A7%SJ6M6
)END

Anyway, now it was Busta's turn to scratch his head. Not seeing any other great option before him, Bustamante smartly realized that Norris Brady had not liked where he was stuck for the last shot, so he took a scratch and rolled the cue right back to the same spot -- really working over Brady behind that same little cluster!

START(
%AV3X3%BO0O5%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7
%OW5W9%PP6O6%QA5[7%RA7A7%SJ6M6%YW0Z3%ZV0[1%]U3Z3%^P9P9
)END

Now with Brady already on a scratch, and possibly needing to take another one to escape, Brady made a beautiful kick off the seven ball to play safe:

START(
%AV3X3%BO0O5%CP3L4%FK7L5%GD2M5%H\1N8%Ir0M4%K[0W8%ML8M7%NZ5N7
%OW5W9%PX1Y2%QA5[7%RA7A7%WD6J0%XE4L8%YU6Z9%ZW1Y7%]F2N1%^T0Z7
)END

Brady ended up actually catching a rail with the seven so it didn't cost him a ball. Unfortunately for him, a few safeties later he let a cross corner bank leak out and Bustamante made it and got out!!
You didn't mention whether the 1 and 15 ball were frozen, Steve. If they were I must lag the 1 ball and play safe up table.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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3 Choices

3 Choices

hemicudas said:
I got the shot............ Iusetoberich is right but you play the combination on the 1 ball throwing it toward the hole with top right (outside) english. The 15 ball goes one rail breaking up the dead combo in Buste's pocket and he places the CB frozen to the 9 ball. TADA!!!!!! The 1 ball might even go in the pocket. Assuming the 1 and 15 are frozen.

First off I have to say (imnsho) that the two consecutive inning shot choices by Norris Brady were very bad - extremely risky when other options were available.

Hemi, this choice of yours is a great offensive choice - as long as you can control whitey while shooting with the firm stroke that this shot will require.

The second excellent offensive shot is the one that jrhendy stated.

And lastly, to choose the option of taking a scratch like Norris Brady did, I would have lagged the cueball off of the bottom rail and back to the opposite short rail next to busta's pocket - leaving busta too much angle on the nineball to be able to bank it without letting whitey get away from him.
 
Last edited:

hemicudas

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One Pocket Ghost said:
First off I have to say (imnsho) that the two consecutive inning shot choices by Norris Brady were very bad - extremely risky when other options were available.

Hemi, this choice of yours is a great offensive choice - as long as you can control whitey while shooting with the firm stroke that this shot will require.

The second excellent offensive shot is the one that jrhendy stated.

And lastly, to choose the option of taking a scratch like Norris Brady did, I would have lagged the cueball off of the bottom rail and back to the opposite short rail next to busta's pocket - leaving busta too much angle on the nineball to be able to bank it without letting whitey get away from him.
I see a couple of other outs too, Ghost but I believe every shot/move to be dictated by whether the 1 and 15 are frozen. In the WEI diagram it looks possible to play the combination on the 1 ball and leave the CB frozen in the center to the top rail. Though in the photo it looks like the 3 ball would still be available for Buste. Damn I love this game.
 

One Pocket Ghost

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hemicudas said:
Damn I love this game.

Bill, I love it too - if you like to think, ( not to mention out-think your opponent ) how can you not love it...Like Steve's example here shows, there can be more complex strategy to discuss and options to consider in one inning of One Pocket, than in 10 racks of 9 ball.
 

hemicudas

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One Pocket Ghost said:
Bill, I love it too - if you like to think, ( not to mention out-think your opponent ) how can you not love it...Like Steve's example here shows, there can be more complex strategy to discuss and options to consider in one inning of One Pocket, than in 10 racks of 9 ball.
Ain't it the truth, Ghost. The only thing that comes close is golf on the snooker table and you only have to play your guy safe on one ball there.
 

jrhendy

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The Final Result

The Final Result

In my opinion, when you are playing a guy who can run balls like Bustamonte, you have to take your chance when you get it. He might have lost the game a few shots earlier, but he had a chance to win it with a very tough shot. From the layout of the balls, the hole he was in could only get deeper. I would rather go down swinging (and often do) than safe myself out of the game. IMHO you are never going to beat a better player by going behind the log. Go for your hole.
 

hemicudas

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jrhendy said:
In my opinion, when you are playing a guy who can run balls like Bustamonte, you have to take your chance when you get it. He might have lost the game a few shots earlier, but he had a chance to win it with a very tough shot. From the layout of the balls, the hole he was in could only get deeper. I would rather go down swinging (and often do) than safe myself out of the game. IMHO you are never going to beat a better player by going behind the log. Go for your hole.
Exactly what I think, John. Of course I have more experience playing better shot makers than you. They all shoot straighter than me.
 

NH Steve

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hemicudas said:
I see a couple of other outs too, Ghost but I believe every shot/move to be dictated by whether the 1 and 15 are frozen. In the WEI diagram it looks possible to play the combination on the 1 ball and leave the CB frozen in the center to the top rail. Though in the photo it looks like the 3 ball would still be available for Buste. Damn I love this game.
My wei work might be a wee bit off, but the photograph I posted, was shot of the original situation (which I then tried to convert to the wei).

How many of you guys ever think of playing a safety by taking a scratch and rolling the cue ball to the foot spot to end up with whitey locked up on your about-to-be-spotted penalty ball? I don't think I have -- yet :) One of the things I found neat about the spotted ball safety was the little roller-coaster of human nature -- at first looking like Brady sold out, then when the ball spotted it turned into a good safe. I know Busta got a little ironic chuckle about it at the time.

The other thing I liked was Busta putting Brady right back where he had been -- knowing that Brady hadn't liked it there.
 

piggybank04

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That idea of rolling the rock to the foot spot never occured to me.....a very simple,yet ,potentially crushing situation......
 

vapros

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Safety

Safety

:rolleyes: If he is going to take a scratch and play safe, the shot he made is mighty delicate, counting on the spotted ball to protect him. If he is going to two-rail it, why not bring it up behind the 6-13, leaving it in the back part of the triangle? Or just one-rail the rock into the corner by Bustamante's pocket? It looks quite possible in the diagram, but tougher in the photo.
 
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