Need ideas for 1P Shots in SloMo

stevelomako

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Messages
1,066
Due to being clubbed like a baby seal a few times, I have earned promises from a few decent one pocket players (like Cliff Joyner, for example) to capture a few key 1P shots in slow motion. As always, I will be sharing these with my forum buddies at no cost.

So, when I get some table time with these folks, are there particular shots you'd like to see in slow motion video?

Three rail soft kicks resulting in a foul will not be considered. :)

Long twist-back banks a la Cole Dickson are more what I had in mind.

I'm thinking of shots like hard-spinning a frozen ball off the center of the footrail diamond back into your pocket. Stuff like that.

Disclaimer: I realize that some of the shots that will look best in SloMo would be some of the most ridiculous shots to attempt in an actual game.

Thanks for your ideas.

-Blake

How about when two balls are on the spot and you have ball in hand and you play the shot to make them both (the top ball straight in your pocket and the bottom ball 2 rails in your pocket) by putting the cue ball a little off the center of the table and shoot the top ball dead in the face with draw.
 

stevelomako

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2004
Messages
1,066
How about when two balls are on the spot and you have ball in hand and you play the shot to make them both (the top ball straight in your pocket and the bottom ball 2 rails in your pocket) by putting the cue ball a little off the center of the table and shoot the top ball dead in the face with draw.
Maybe you can shoot the "Vernon Elliott bank" to show what's actually happening when the cue ball hits the object ball.
 

Island Drive

Verified Member
Joined
May 1, 2011
Messages
4,148
A Tit and a Rail

A Tit and a Rail

............anyone mention that old classic? Won three matches in my life with this shot.
 
Last edited:

Dudley

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 14, 2009
Messages
748
shot for SloMo

shot for SloMo

I would like to see a topside view with a better perspective of this shot here.

Dudley

[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkEgEj5H0X8[/ame]
 

Mkbtank

Verified Member
Joined
Apr 22, 2013
Messages
5,329
Need ideas for 1P Shots in SloMo

Thanks Dennis. I never saw this thread (before my time here)
 

Patrick Johnson

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
1,447
Hi Bill,
Check this video at about 3:29. I rubbed some chalk on the contact point of the OB to force it to skid for these shots.

Surely, I'm not the only one that can "hear" a skid. Do you know what I mean? In the video, you can see both the OB and CB hop a few times, which I believe is the cause of the "skid noise."

-Blake

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J2gcgqUt00w
Hey Blake, thanks for the dedication - pretty cool! Wish I'd known before.

Really like your stuff - thanks for sharing.

pj
chgo
 

SloMoHolic

Verified Member
Joined
May 15, 2013
Messages
112
Need ideas for 1P Shots in SloMo

Hey Blake, thanks for the dedication - pretty cool! Wish I'd known before.



Really like your stuff - thanks for sharing.



pj

chgo

You are most welcome, PJ. We (well, some of us) miss you on AZB. I've enjoyed your posts since the RSB days. Glad you finally got to see the dedication. :)

-Blake
 

Billy Jackets

Verified Member
Joined
Sep 3, 2011
Messages
1,551
I had the pleasure of watching Cliff play many times .
The 2 shots he made that always impressed me the most, were a one rail and 3 rail bank out of the corners, tighter than anyone else I ever watched play.
Even the great bankers!
Could you film that?
I would love to see how he gets the cueball out of the kiss???????
 

unoperro

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 25, 2012
Messages
1,624
Challenge accepted. I'll give this a shot!
A player told me Larry Liscotti would shoot this shot and make both balls.He
would use throw on 1st ball just like shooting the shot with draw.Player describing the shot, Robert Peacock from Texas, set it up and made front ball hung back ball. I never could use top and throw front ball near enough. If I used top and shot hard I could 1rail head ball into the bottom left pocket.


Dbl kiss as shown in other post is possible at nearly 45degree angle..backwards!If done right cb goes 2 rails back behind stack on shooters side! Execute that and you are seen as a BAD MAN!


Tried to quote show 2 balls on spot-crossing with top.
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
10,040
I too have many times seen Cliff J. shoot the "Okey-doke" shot the way it's illustrated here. He usually plays it flawlessly, always taking care of whitey, whether or not the 2nd ball goes two rails into the pocket.

I don't know how the head ball (on the spot) could be made in this layout, or in any layout where the CB goes 3 rails to safety. The ball needs heavy draw on the CB in order to transfer to follow on the OB.

~Doc
 

Patrick Johnson

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
1,447
I was thinking this too -- take out shots.

Another shot I have seen Cliff shoot is when there are two balls spotted up, and he shoots to force the head ball into his pocket while two-railing the back ball. Most people play this starting with the cue ball diagonally opposite from their own pocket (except a little closer to the center of the table), but Cliff also shoots it with the Cue ball starting on the other side of the head spot, something like this (taken from Willi Joplin diagram):

This shot is described by Bob Jewett as the "ten times fuller" technique. The idea is to aim the front spotted ball toward a point on the rail 1/10 the distance from the middle diamond to the corner pocket (1/5 diamond from the middle diamond).

I've heard the front spotted ball can be made in the corner from many angles (so long as it's aimed at the 1/10 spot) and with many kinds of CB spin, but it's by far easiest if the CB is lined up for a dead straight shot on the "1/10" line and hit with maximum draw (I try to draw the CB back to the head rail). Dirty balls help to transfer the draw to follow on the OB.

The slight angle on the first spotted ball shot naturally throws the second ball in the right direction for the up-and-back bank. A little sidespin can help increase the throw angle, but there's only so much ball/ball friction to go around so you give up some transferred follow on the first ball, and you usually need all you can get. Fortunately, (unless the balls are newly polished) the second ball is often thrown enough because of the angled "collision" without any help from sidespin.

[/nerdmode]

pj
chgo
 

gulfportdoc

Verified Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2004
Messages
10,040
This shot is described by Bob Jewett as the "ten times fuller" technique. The idea is to aim the front spotted ball toward a point on the rail 1/10 the distance from the middle diamond to the corner pocket (1/5 diamond from the middle diamond).

I've heard the front spotted ball can be made in the corner from many angles (so long as it's aimed at the 1/10 spot) and with many kinds of CB spin, but it's by far easiest if the CB is lined up for a dead straight shot on the "1/10" line and hit with maximum draw (I try to draw the CB back to the head rail). Dirty balls help to transfer the draw to follow on the OB.

The slight angle on the first spotted ball shot naturally throws the second ball in the right direction for the up-and-back bank. A little sidespin can help increase the throw angle, but there's only so much ball/ball friction to go around so you give up some transferred follow on the first ball, and you usually need all you can get. Fortunately, (unless the balls are newly polished) the second ball is often thrown enough because of the angled "collision" without any help from sidespin. pj chgo
"Ten times fuller". I'll have to remember that, and experiment with different ball positions.

I'm wondering if there's an ideal CB angle position to effect the maximum throw on the 2nd ball? It seems like it would be in the vicinity of a half-ball hit.

~Doc
 

Patrick Johnson

Verified Member
Joined
Jul 31, 2008
Messages
1,447
"Ten times fuller". I'll have to remember that, and experiment with different ball positions.

I'm wondering if there's an ideal CB angle position to effect the maximum throw on the 2nd ball? It seems like it would be in the vicinity of a half-ball hit.

~Doc
Your instinct is good. Bob (and other billiards scientists like "Dr. Dave" Alciatore, Ron Shepard, Mike Page, etc.) also say that maximum throw occurs with a sliding CB (or a frozen combo) with no sidespin at a half-ball hit. That's too much angle for the "ten times fuller" shot, but fortunately maximum throw isn't needed for this shot.

Side note: the same friction that produces throw also spins the OB - more throw = more transferred sidespin. So on a bank shot like this you get the double whammy of throwing the OB at an angle into the rail plus the transferred spin increasing the angle off the rail.

pj
chgo
 

WhatWouldWojoDo

Verified Member
Joined
Mar 12, 2013
Messages
145
Idea's

Idea's

3 or more ball clearance shots. 3 balls on their side, you play the first ball off 1/2 of the 2nd ball, then the 2nd ball plays off the 3rd ball and moves all 3 toward your side

Efren Reyes shot - object ball is frozen to the foot rail near opponents pocket (1/2 diamond away) and cue ball is lined up straight to shoot that ball into opponents pocket. He banks the ball off the footrail, off the point and toward his pocket.

How about the collision of the carom banks. Play an object ball off another ball and bank it toward your hole

The 2 balls frozen to the spot in line, cue ball in the kitchen. Shoot it to play both balls toward your hole (diagram was in this discussion somewhere).

More take outs, different angles and the ball not so deep.
 

straightback

Verified Member
Joined
Feb 16, 2014
Messages
1,851
Efren Reyes shot - object ball is frozen to the foot rail near opponents pocket (1/2 diamond away) and cue ball is lined up straight to shoot that ball into opponents pocket. He banks the ball off the footrail, off the point and toward his pocket.
This is a really cool shot. Efren might do it with the most grace, but Cliff is the person I really associate with this shot. For anyone that has the ability to post these shots up, Efren did it against Billy Palmer in 2004 at the Derby. (I think they played twice - it's the first match, which is a pretty good match. While you're at it, include Billy's carom shot where he gives Efren a hanging ball and simultaneously makes a ball in his pocket.)

I have alot of videos but I do not know how to capture screen shots or short video segments. Can someone point me to a tutorial? CaliRed? Someone else with some proficiency in these matters?
 

androd

Verified Member
Joined
Dec 10, 2008
Messages
7,252
This is a really cool shot. Efren might do it with the most grace, but Cliff is the person I really associate with this shot. For anyone that has the ability to post these shots up, Efren did it against Billy Palmer in 2004 at the Derby. (I think they played twice - it's the first match, which is a pretty good match. While you're at it, include Billy's carom shot where he gives Efren a hanging ball and simultaneously makes a ball in his pocket.)

I have alot of videos but I do not know how to capture screen shots or short video segments. Can someone point me to a tutorial? CaliRed? Someone else with some proficiency in these matters?
Look in the sticky "How to index" good info on screenshots and greenshot.
Rod.
P.S. I don't watch pool so I've nothing to post from.
From an old post of yours. :)
 
Top