N. Varner vs. E. Reyes 1999 D.C.C.

[Frank Almanza]

I think this was a trick WWYD. When I first looked at this I thought there was not enough twelve exposed to shoot at it. Of course if there was enough twelve a player like Varner would shoot at it. I probably would shoot at it too.

But then again maybe there was not enough twelve and that's the reason he over cut it. Sometimes those types of shots will play tricks on us. Was there enough ball or not?

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I think this was a trick WWYD. When I first looked at this I thought there was not enough twelve exposed to shoot at it. Of course if there was enough twelve a player like Varner would shoot at it. I probably would shoot at it too.

But then again maybe there was not enough twelve and that's the reason he over cut it. Sometimes those types of shots will play tricks on us. Was there enough ball or not?

Frank,

A "trick WWYD"? Six of the people who actually gave an opinion in this thread as to what they would shoot, as opposed to what they thought Varner or Schmidt or SVB or God would do, actually thought the 12 was a shootable shot. I'm not responsible for how people see these layouts. Sometimes guys are putting protractors and straightedges on their monitor to make a shot appear makeable and sometimes everyone just sees that a shot is possible. In none of the cases am I responsible for what people see or write.

Only two people questioned whether or not the 12 passed.

As to whether or not the 12 was a makeable shot; ask Varner, he's the one who shot it without much thought about it. I'd trust his judgement since he's the guy with the best view of the layout. He did take over 1 full minute to shoot the shot but he was mostly building up the courage to shoot it rather than wondering if it went. He didn't have a problem with the fact that the ball went.

P.S. The 1999 AccuStats productions were great for their time but they lacked the multiple cameras and various angled shots, including overheads, that we have today. The two views I posted in this thread were the only two available, trust that I'd have posted more pics if they were available.

P.Ps. After seeing that a couple guys weren't sure if the 12 passed, how could I say that it did? How would I know that without giving up that I knew Varner shot the 12?

P.P.Ps. Since you didn't reply in this thread till after the shot was shown (to my knowledge) I don't think you have a valid complaint anyway.

In closing let me say this; I'll not ever waste anyone's time here by posting "trick WWYD's" (whatever those are). I'd be wasting more of my time than yours.

Dennis

 

[Cowboy Dennis]

I just watched the scene where this layout came up and let me say this: the co-commentators gave Nick an 80/85% probability of making this shot. The more intelligent commentator said 80%, the other one said 85%.

All I know is that for me, shooting that 12 with the cueball even with the sidepocket is a tough shot. It would take a high bet or me being stuck good to make me shoot that shot.

Dennis

 

[NH Steve]

Rod, great minds think alike... Do you want the left half, or the right half, of the cookie? Jokes aside, I'm surprised Nicky missed the 12. The 15 must have been very close to the aim line on the 12-ball cut, thereby affecting his shot perception.

Doc

You guys can have that cookie -- I'm glad I gave Reyes the 7-ball

 

[gulfportdoc]

You guys can have that cookie -- I'm glad I gave Reyes the 7-ball

Turns out, Nick DID give him the 7-ball.... and six others as well!

Doc

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

Varner decided to cut the 12 in and he missed it badly. It was his last shot of the 5-game match and cleared the way for Effie to play in & win the finals match for his first of five DCC titles in One-Pocket. This match was one of the semi-finals.

<-------- And that outcome of Nick's, for those of you that are on here wanting to learn the correct way to play One Pocket, is a perfect example of why, if you are ever in that same type of situation, you are supposed to do this -------->

Considering the score, and the fact that the ball is too deep in the pocket for a sure-thing-controllable-dig-out, any normal human One Pocket player is supposed to make the guy's ball for him, rail first, leaving him froze on the foot rail - end of discussion......

- The :hehpinionated Gh:hehst

This is the LEAST debatable WWYD ever created by the "Lunatic"...If I my $$$ were involved with anyone, (even SVB, or God himself) and he even looked at any other shot than the Ghost's, (post # 6)...I would shoot him right between the eyes, because I would know I was in a trap... I don't think even Corey, would pass on making the ball in Effy's pocket.

The :hehpininated D:hehck

 

[tylerdurden]

I don't think that is a cinch stroke he hit that ball with, and I don't like it. At least it wasn't the way I'd cinch that ball. Imagine if it were a 9 ball playing 9 ball, how would he shoot it. Whatever the answer to that is, you must shoot it that way.

 

[iusedtoberich]

I don't feel so bad now about being color blind... In this thread it seems no one could figure out which ball was which

 

[SJDinPHX]

I don't feel so bad now about being color blind... In this thread it seems no one could figure out which ball was which

The gentlemen who posts these things, likes to wait until everybody has been made to look foolish, before he numbers the balls... He is a real jerk, and a complete idiot !.. Sometimes he doesn't even mention whose shot it is..:frus

I can see it's time for this:

View attachment 8238

 

[Island Drive]

I don't think that is a cinch stroke he hit that ball with, and I don't like it. At least it wasn't the way I'd cinch that ball. Imagine if it were a 9 ball playing 9 ball, how would he shoot it. Whatever the answer to that is, you must shoot it that way.

Natural rolling ball, like a Hov Around, gets ya where wanna go. Just hope Freddie doesn't start singing, if he does all bets are Off.

 

[squeezeplay]

SP,

What would you shoot if you were in an even game with an evenly matched opponent?

Good line of thinking though.

Dennis

Even opponent? Score 5-2 me? No question...make the opponents ball and knuckle down and grind out a win.

 

[tylerdurden]

Natural rolling ball, like a Hov Around, gets ya where wanna go. Just hope Freddie doesn't start singing, if he does all bets are Off.

Do yo shoot a 9 ball like that? I think different players cinch balls differently, but this is one i'm hitting with low left if I am cinching it. Rolling this my make % goes down enough to not consider it, esp when I have to worry about the point, or even going in the side.

 

[wincardona]

Do yo shoot a 9 ball like that? I think different players cinch balls differently, but this is one i'm hitting with low left if I am cinching it. Rolling this my make % goes down enough to not consider it, esp when I have to worry about the point, or even going in the side.

I would like to offer my opinion on shooting shots that are difficult but shootable, and also on how I look at the best way to cinch balls.

Take this shot as an example. Many of the players that voiced their opinion opted to play the 7ball as opposed to shooting the 12ball, which would be clearly the right shot for them. However, I also believe that there are players (top players) that would of shot the 12ball for reasons different than the players that opted to shoot the 7ball. Of course we all have to respect the score but the score carries a different value.... in terms of the advantage it represents for the players competing. A 5 to 2 lead between two B players is much larger than between two A players. And when you're talking about ..upper echelon players then... thats when it really gets confusing for many people to interpret why a player would shoot certain shots. I believed that the 12ball was a very viable option for Varner with the score the way it was..playing Reyes. However, for a player like me I would of opted to pocket the 7ball and played from there, against anyone. I f I were to shoot the 12ball..for whatever reason, I would of shot it like Varner did, with a natural ball (near center axis) Tyler said that he would of shot it with ..low left..to cinch the ball which to me is a more difficult way to cinch certain shots. I believe that shots that carry the distance that this shot carries and also the angle (fairly steep) you will be more accurate hitting the cue ball near center axis...(less deflection ..masse...and throwing object ball) Hitting shots with low left..or low right with a stroke are usually shots that are going into a large pocket, or shots that require that type of english to control the cue ball. However, there are exceptions to when I opt to use low right or low left english as opposed to using a more center ball hit and they are usually when the distance of the shot is shortened to where I can comfortably judge the amount of deflection and turn that I will get on the object ball. The shorter the distance the more accurate you will be when using low english shots that require a little speed. Anyways, thats how I view it and it works well for me.

One Pocket Ghost
Verified Member

Join Date: May 2004
Location: ghost town
Posts: 4,077

Considering the score, and the fact that the ball is too deep in the pocket for a sure-thing-controllable-dig-out, any normal human One Pocket player is supposed to make the guy's ball for him, rail first, leaving him froze on the head rail - end of discussion......(without a doubt)

Now if a guy in this scenario shot as straight as Shane or John Schmidt, and wanted to shoot the 10 ball instead (presuming he could see enough of the 10 ball to make it) - that would be permissible - barely (I agree)- but it would still be the second best choice...(maybe not..for some)

- The pinionated Ghst
__________________

#35
05-09-2013, 04:31 PM

Tom Wirth
Verified Member

Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 255

Considering that I just had the luxury of pocketing six balls I now have a more comfortable feel at the table. With this shot on the twelve (should it be in a position where it can go) I would be more inclined to take the shot. Would I go so far as to apply inside english to bump the eleven? Probably not but I might have to consider it. I would probably play it as Billy suggested and cinch the ball coming up for a possible shot on the one. If I come up with a good angle for the one, so be it. I will then have to make another decision to shoot or play safe. Primary goal; make whatever I'm shooting at.

If I had not just shot six balls but still had a five to one lead, I would be more apt to pocket the seven and not take a chance on picking up one ball in a situation where I could very well loose the game should I miss. For me this is one of those spots where the right shot is measured by the little man deep inside. (perfectly reasoned)

Tom

Varner would of been much more inclined to play the 7ball if the score was 6 to 2, and for sure with the score at 7 to 2. However with the score at 5 to 2 it was a tougher decision that only he could know what was right for him, at that time.

Dr. Bill

 

[Island Drive]

I would like to offer my opinion on shooting shots that are difficult but shootable, and also on how I look at the best way to cinch balls.

Take this shot as an example. Many of the players that voiced their opinion opted to play the 7ball as opposed to shooting the 12ball, which would be clearly the right shot for them. However, I also believe that there are players (top players) that would of shot the 12ball for reasons different than the players that opted to shoot the 7ball. Of course we all have to respect the score but the score carries a different value.... in terms of the advantage it represents for the players competing. A 5 to 2 lead between two B players is much larger than between two A players. And when you're talking about ..upper echelon players then... thats when it really gets confusing for many people to interpret why a player would shoot certain shots. I believed that the 12ball was a very viable option for Varner with the score the way it was..playing Reyes. However, for a player like me I would of opted to pocket the 7ball and played from there, against anyone. I f I were to shoot the 12ball..for whatever reason, I would of shot it like Varner did, with a natural ball (near center axis) Tyler said that he would of shot it with ..low left..to cinch the ball which to me is a more difficult way to cinch certain shots. I believe that shots that carry the distance that this shot carries and also the angle (fairly steep) you will be more accurate hitting the cue ball near center axis...(less deflection ..masse...and throwing object ball) Hitting shots with low left..or low right with a stroke are usually shots that are going into a large pocket, or shots that require that type of english to control the cue ball. However, there are exceptions to when I opt to use low right or low left english as opposed to using a more center ball hit and they are usually when the distance of the shot is shortened to where I can comfortably judge the amount of deflection and turn that I will get on the object ball. The shorter the distance the more accurate you will be when using low english shots that require a little speed. Anyways, thats how I view it and it works well for me.




#35
05-09-2013, 04:31 PM

Varner would of been much more inclined to play the 7ball if the score was 6 to 2, and for sure with the score at 7 to 2. However with the score at 5 to 2 it was a tougher decision that only he could know what was right for him, at that time.

Dr. Bill

Yep, I can see em givin' that scratchin' my head side to side as he rises off the shot.

 

[wincardona]

Yep, I can see em givin' that scratchin' my head side to side as he rises off the shot.

Yes, I guess it was the wrong time.

Dr. Bill

 

[Island Drive]

Yes, I guess it was the wrong time.

Dr. Bill

If it was Sigel, he would of confirmed it with es' Yes man after that....he'd start waving around his hands :help: to the crowd.

 

[One Pocket Ghost]

...and if it was Ronnie (Allen) missing that 12 ball...he would have turned to the crowd, with an academy award worthy look of disbelief on his face, and said - "can you believe how bad that ball rolled off"...lol

...and if it was Efren...he would have given that silly smile that means - "I miss shot".

…and if it was Rafael Martinez…he would have immediately walked away from the table with absolutely no change of expression.

- Ghost

 

[tylerdurden]

Well, maybe the 12 ball is a little closer the the end rail than it appears? If it gets a little thin, sure, I agree the center ball hit ups my percentage.

I'd like to say though, imprint this shot on your brain and next time you are watching top flight 9 ball player hit it (if it is a 9 ball), see how they hit it. I know you guys already know that though..... but maybe I just see this one differently, as I say, it could be a tad thinner from the angle we have. Cus if the ob gets close to that rail, as I say rolling it is much better for me too, but it seems to be in the rack area. People would cinch the 13 with low left no doubt, correct. But not the 12? I guess it is in that borderline area. These things look different actually at the table, it is hard to tell sometimes.

I personally bet the reason be missed this ball was he was trying to hit before the side with white. That takes a little left, and when rolling it with high it'll definitely move on over for the over cut he got.

If I would have missed this ball I would walk back to the chair just like Rafael Martinez by the way, except that there would be little red men inside my stomach screaming at the top of their lungs.

 

[wincardona]

A champion and a friend has passed.

A champion and a friend has passed.

Bernie Schwartz passed today at 6:30 pm. Bernie was my rival but a better friend, he was the best 9ball player in the world...all through the 70's.

Bill Incardona

 

[Island Drive]

Bernie Schwartz passed today at 6:30 pm. Bernie was my rival but a better friend, he was the best 9ball player in the world...all through the 70's.

Bill Incardona

He will be missed. A friend who wishes the best to his family and loved ones, his smile was relentless, and a straight up guy.