My Opinion

Cowboy Dennis

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After watching many hours of one-pocket on TAR the last few nights I'll offer my opinions of the top players I've seen. Bear in mind that giving up 16-4 or 18-4 doesn't make you forget the right shot.

1. Cliff Joyner won 2 sets out of three from Dave Peat(16-4) but he should've won the third set as well. He left Dave simple cross-corner banks and a straight-back to win the set. Cliff played average and shot the wrong shots poorly many times. That catches up to a player giving up that weight.

2. Corey Deuel(18-4 vs. Dave) plays good but in a pressure situation where the correct shot would be devastating, he often doesn't know what to do. He also shoots at his pocket when a safe is called for.

3. I didn't see the entire match that Gabe just won, only the last 5 games or so. Gabe has no clue how to play one-pocket. He missed with BIH at least three times that I recall and he scratched more than the guy he was playing. He'd shoot the wrong shot to play the wrong shapes and then miss the ball he played shapes on. He left easy cross-corner banks when it was easy not to. He's a good player but needs more seasoning at one-pocket.

I realize that these guys are playing after being up for 20 hrs. or more but that doesn't mean you forget the right shot.

The biggest thing I see from these guys giving up these huge spots is they seem to be trying to protect their backer's money. Instead of playing their game and doing what they know, they seem to change their game to suit the spot & the bet. Cornbread would've shown these guys how to have absolutely no respect at all for the backer's money and no respect for the weak player either. It's a shame that I haven't seen a top player yet just get up and run 10 balls, maybe I missed it if it did happen but I've seen many opportunities missed by Cliff, Corey, and Gabe. They all seem to be playing scared, even when they are winning.

Anyway, that's my take on these players.

Dennis
 

senor

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Cowboy Dennis said:
3. I didn't see the entire match that Gabe just won, only the last 5 games or so. Gabe has no clue how to play one-pocket. He missed with BIH at least three times that I recall and he scratched more than the guy he was playing. He'd shoot the wrong shot to play the wrong shapes and then miss the ball he played shapes on. He left easy cross-corner banks when it was easy not to. He's a good player but needs more seasoning at one-pocket.
I wish that Gabe showed up more often when I played him :rolleyes: He did a couple of times, but more often than not he was bizarro of what you described ;)
 

Cowboy Dennis

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senor said:
I wish that Gabe showed up more often when I played him :rolleyes: He did a couple of times, but more often than not he was bizarro of what you described ;)
senor,

I watched Dennis Orcullo play Bartram last night and he plays lights-out too. Have you ever played him? I don't know if he plays one-pocket but he sure plays good 10-ball. He is the only player I've ever seen who slip-strokes the cue the same way I do. On one shot he even double-slipped it. He doesn't do it on every shot but he does it. I think he missed 5 balls the entire set, and that's going to 31. He won 31-23.

Dennis
 

senor

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Cowboy Dennis said:
senor,

I watched Dennis Orcullo play Bartram last night and he plays lights-out too. Have you ever played him? I don't know if he plays one-pocket but he sure plays good 10-ball. He is the only player I've ever seen who slip-strokes the cue the same way I do. On one shot he even double-slipped it. He doesn't do it on every shot but he does it. I think he missed 5 balls the entire set, and that's going to 31. He won 31-23.

Dennis
No, Dennis came along after my time and I was fortunate that not too many Phillipinos came through Houston, except for some of their 'B' players :)
 

SJDinPHX

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Cowboy Dennis said:
I've seen many opportunities missed by Cliff, Corey, and Gabe. They all seem to be playing scared, even when they are winning.
As you well know, scared to win too much $$$, can come into play very often. As I said in the other post..."Some dogged it, some didn't."..for a variety of different reasons.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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SJDinPHX said:
As you well know, scared to win too much $$$, can come into play very often. As I said in the other post..."Some dogged it, some didn't."..for a variety of different reasons.
As Red would have told them, "I see a flaw in your game" :) . I guess I was spoiled being around him and I expect these guys to get up and know how to win or make a good showing at these games. It seems I'm asking too much. I'm not trying to sound like a monday morning Q-back but I've watched at least 20 hrs. of these guys and they disappoint. Oh well, that's why I don't bet on other players (except Lenny:D ).

RBL
 

SJDinPHX

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Cowboy Dennis said:
As Red would have told them, "I see a flaw in your game" :) . I guess I was spoiled being around him and I expect these guys to get up and know how to win or make a good showing at these games. It seems I'm asking too much. I'm not trying to sound like a monday morning Q-back but I've watched at least 20 hrs. of these guys and they disappoint. Oh well, that's why I don't bet on other players (except Lenny:D ).

RBL
Have you been watching the Hagar/Bartrum match ? It's well into the 4th game, and both players, have shot the wrong shot, at least 40 times...Hagar cannot win if thats the extent of his moving.
 

senor

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SJDinPHX said:
Have you been watching the Hagar/Bartrum match ? It's well into the 4th game, and both players, have shot the wrong shot, at least 40 times...Hagar cannot win if thats the extent of his moving.
Yes, I have definitely seen JD play better.
 

androd

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SJDinPHX said:
Have you been watching the Hagar/Bartrum match ? It's well into the 4th game, and both players, have shot the wrong shot, at least 40 times...Hagar cannot win if thats the extent of his moving.
This game is way too slow for JD. All the stalling from Dip will really hurt his game.;)
Rod.
PS, All I could stand was a few moments of it.
 

Cowboy Dennis

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SJDinPHX said:
Have you been watching the Hagar/Bartrum match ? It's well into the 4th game, and both players, have shot the wrong shot, at least 40 times...Hagar cannot win if thats the extent of his moving.
I watched the first 2 or 3 games then I had to go tune up my snowblower for tonight (3-5 inches coming). Bartram did have to shoot what Dave told him to shoot. That was the game. Still, it wasn't too good.

RBL
 

lll

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androd said:
Rod.
PS, All I could stand was a few moments of it.
me too. if thats the action i understand why john cant get a game
 

Skin

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Cowboy Dennis said:
After watching many hours of one-pocket on TAR the last few nights I'll offer my opinions of the top players I've seen. Bear in mind that giving up 16-4 or 18-4 doesn't make you forget the right shot.

1. Cliff Joyner won 2 sets out of three from Dave Peat(16-4) but he should've won the third set as well. He left Dave simple cross-corner banks and a straight-back to win the set. Cliff played average and shot the wrong shots poorly many times. That catches up to a player giving up that weight.

2. Corey Deuel(18-4 vs. Dave) plays good but in a pressure situation where the correct shot would be devastating, he often doesn't know what to do. He also shoots at his pocket when a safe is called for.

3. I didn't see the entire match that Gabe just won, only the last 5 games or so. Gabe has no clue how to play one-pocket. He missed with BIH at least three times that I recall and he scratched more than the guy he was playing. He'd shoot the wrong shot to play the wrong shapes and then miss the ball he played shapes on. He left easy cross-corner banks when it was easy not to. He's a good player but needs more seasoning at one-pocket.

I realize that these guys are playing after being up for 20 hrs. or more but that doesn't mean you forget the right shot.

The biggest thing I see from these guys giving up these huge spots is they seem to be trying to protect their backer's money. Instead of playing their game and doing what they know, they seem to change their game to suit the spot & the bet. Cornbread would've shown these guys how to have absolutely no respect at all for the backer's money and no respect for the weak player either. It's a shame that I haven't seen a top player yet just get up and run 10 balls, maybe I missed it if it did happen but I've seen many opportunities missed by Cliff, Corey, and Gabe. They all seem to be playing scared, even when they are winning.

Anyway, that's my take on these players.

Dennis
Here's what I've noticed from these matches. The champions are not learning during the games how to play Dippy, although Joyner nearly got it right to the end. They are thinking that they are the ones who have to take chances and shoot at their hole when in fact it is Dippy's game to do that. All they need to do is smother Dippy and he will give up multiple balls at a time trying to get something close to his hole. The champions seemed to be looking for big runs when, in fact, they could easily get 3-5 balls at a time just by squeezing Dippy.

Another thing I noticed was how every one of them lost patience when the game score was tight near the end. Their game when they won was to get to within a couple of balls of what Dippy needed and grind on him hard. Instead, they changed strategies and became desperate, it seemed. He knocked them off easily at the end of the sets because of that. But, in my opinion, Joyner played the best strategy and had a big score until he flipped out at the end of the final set.

Last thing is that, rather than trying to rip Dippy's heart out and completely demoralize him as the match went on, they set themselves up to have that done to them. I believe Dippy even bragged on the chat how he broke Gabe's heart. I guarantee you that most of the sonsofbitches I played when I was young had that as a part of their strategy and I learned early to do unto them before they did unto me if I could. If the champions would have consistently let Dippy prove to himself that the only thing he could do against them was make mistakes, they would have owned his heart (and his bankroll). He was simply out there to prove he could do it to them, and by-and-large he turned out to be right.

All of this is just my opinion, of course. ;)

Skin
 
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Cowboy Dennis

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Skin said:
Here's what I've noticed from these matches. The champions are not learning during the games how to play Dippy, although Joyner nearly got it right to the end. They are thinking that they are the ones who have to take chances and shoot at their hole when in fact it is Dippy's game to do that. All they need to do is smother Dippy and he will give up multiple balls at a time trying to get something close to his hole. The champions seemed to be looking for big runs when, in fact, they could easily get 3-5 balls at a time just by squeezing Dippy.

Another thing I noticed was how every one of them lost patience when the game score was tight near the end. Their game when they won was to get to within a couple of balls of what Dippy needed and grind on him hard. Instead, they changed strategies and became desperate, it seemed. He knocked them off easily at the end of the sets because of that. But, in my opinion, Joyner played the best strategy and had a big score until he flipped out at the end of the final set.

Last thing is that, rather than trying to rip Dippy's heart out and completely demoralize him as the match went on, they set themselves up to have that done to them. I believe Dippy even bragged on the chat how he broke Gabe's heart. I guarantee you that most of the sonsofbitches I played when I was young had that as a part of their strategy and I learned early to do unto them before they did unto me if I could. If the champions would have consistently let Dippy prove to himself that the only thing he could do against them was make mistakes, they would have owned his heart (and his bankroll). He was simply out there to prove he could do it to them, and by-and-large he turned out to be right.

All of this is just my opinion, of course. ;)

Skin
Well, I'll be damned, I believe I agree with every point you made. That's a first.

RBL
 

Skin

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Well, I'll be damned, I believe I agree with every point you made. That's a first.

RBL
You're probably snowed in and drunk, too. That would explain it. LOL :D

Skin
 

Deeman

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Best analysis I've seen on here in a long time!

Good observations.

DeeMan
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Deeman said:
Best analysis I've seen on here in a long time!

Good observations.

DeeMan
Jeez Deeman, I hope you aren't referring to this post:
Skin said:
You're probably snowed in and drunk, too. That would explain it. LOL

Skin
I've just started on the path to the latter and by morning, I hear, I'll be well on the way to the former:D .

Dennis
 

Deeman

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Dennis,

now I'm not sure that I don't agree with that one as well! :)

I'm leaving DCC for the warmth of South Alabama in a few minutes. I'll send you a turbo for the snow blower but am hanging onto the Yukon Jack till I see my favorite babe magnet again! :)

Stay warm, but Scotch works just as well for that!

DeeMan
 

Big Jim

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Cowboy Dennis said:
After watching many hours of one-pocket on TAR the last few nights I'll offer my opinions of the top players I've seen. Bear in mind that giving up 16-4 or 18-4 doesn't make you forget the right shot.

1. Cliff Joyner won 2 sets out of three from Dave Peat(16-4) but he should've won the third set as well. He left Dave simple cross-corner banks and a straight-back to win the set. Cliff played average and shot the wrong shots poorly many times. That catches up to a player giving up that weight.

2. Corey Deuel(18-4 vs. Dave) plays good but in a pressure situation where the correct shot would be devastating, he often doesn't know what to do. He also shoots at his pocket when a safe is called for.

3. I didn't see the entire match that Gabe just won, only the last 5 games or so. Gabe has no clue how to play one-pocket. He missed with BIH at least three times that I recall and he scratched more than the guy he was playing. He'd shoot the wrong shot to play the wrong shapes and then miss the ball he played shapes on. He left easy cross-corner banks when it was easy not to. He's a good player but needs more seasoning at one-pocket.

I realize that these guys are playing after being up for 20 hrs. or more but that doesn't mean you forget the right shot.

The biggest thing I see from these guys giving up these huge spots is they seem to be trying to protect their backer's money. Instead of playing their game and doing what they know, they seem to change their game to suit the spot & the bet. Cornbread would've shown these guys how to have absolutely no respect at all for the backer's money and no respect for the weak player either. It's a shame that I haven't seen a top player yet just get up and run 10 balls, maybe I missed it if it did happen but I've seen many opportunities missed by Cliff, Corey, and Gabe. They all seem to be playing scared, even when they are winning.

Anyway, that's my take on these players.

Dennis
If Gabe owens can't play one pocket how did he win the DCC one pocket championship about 3 years ago?
Jim
 

Cowboy Dennis

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Big Jim said:
If Gabe owens can't play one pocket how did he win the DCC one pocket championship about 3 years ago?
Jim
Big Jim,

First, to answer your question: I didn't see Gabe play in the DCC one-pocket 3 or so years ago so I can't possibly have an opinion as to how he won it.

Second, I did note in my opinion that I had only seen 5 games that he played and I based my opinion on that, it may not be and probably isn't a fair assessment of his game but I did stipulate that it was based on the 5 games that I saw only.

Cowboy Dennis said:
3. I didn't see the entire match that Gabe just won, only the last 5 games or so. Gabe has no clue how to play one-pocket. He missed with BIH at least three times that I recall and he scratched more than the guy he was playing. He'd shoot the wrong shot to play the wrong shapes and then miss the ball he played shapes on. He left easy cross-corner banks when it was easy not to. He's a good player but needs more seasoning at one-pocket.
Gabe missed with BIH, he scratched the cueball in a pocket more than the guy he was playing and he chose the wrong safeties and left easy banks when it was simple not to. Those aren't the classic traits of a top one-pocket player.

Although this quote from Dave Peat is slightly out of context, Gabe is the player mentioned by name as the one he'd rather play than Frost or another aggressive player.

Viffer said:
scotts style is the last i want to play against!!!!! his agression and ball running dont suit me well, plus he knows to much, id much rather play gabe or someone less agressive!!!!
I interpret "aggressive" to also include "knowledgeable" even though Dave didn't say it.

Perhaps you have an opinion you'd like to share on why you think Dave would like to play Gabe if Gabe is such a good one-pocket player?

Dennis
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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Cowboy Dennis said:
Big Jim,

First, to answer your question: I didn't see Gabe play in the DCC one-pocket 3 or so years ago so I can't possibly have an opinion as to how he won it.

Second, I did note in my opinion that I had only seen 5 games that he played and I based my opinion on that, it may not be and probably isn't a fair assessment of his game but I did stipulate that it was based on the 5 games that I saw only.



Gabe missed with BIH, he scratched the cueball in a pocket more than the guy he was playing and he chose the wrong safeties and left easy banks when it was simple not to. Those aren't the classic traits of a top one-pocket player.

Although this quote from Dave Peat is slightly out of context, Gabe is the player mentioned by name as the one he'd rather play than Frost or another aggressive player.



I interpret "aggressive" to also include "knowledgeable" even though Dave didn't say it.

Perhaps you have an opinion you'd like to share on why you think Dave would like to play Gabe if Gabe is such a good one-pocket player?

Dennis

I hope I am not Hijacking a post. BUt I always wanted to play great shooters over movers playing one pocket. Because the

SHOOTERS MAKE MORE MISTAKES THEN MOVERS> AND THAT SHOULD GIVE YOU MORE CHANCES TO WIN.

Weather that is correct or not. And a lote off great shooters shoot fast because they are rythem players. And if the are un rythem and gear they shoot lights out.
 
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