My Opinion On Opinions/Was Efren The Best Ever

fred bentivegna

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Depends on the conditions

Depends on the conditions

Artie Bodendorfer said:
Who would you take playing one pocket Ronnie Bugs or Efren. Going in a Bad nabor hood in a bad equipment pool room and the have to take a sick out of the rack. And Number two do you think Bugs would have played better with his own cue and how much? And if the bet thier own moneyb who would you pick?
It would depend on the conditions. I love Efren, he is one of the classiest players who ever lived, but my heart is with the guys I grew up with, Bugs, Ronnie and maybe even you. Cardone mentions that he played Bugs, Ronnie and Efren and thinks that gives him a superior opinion. But I played all three also. I'm like you, ability and talent go to Efren, heart goes to Ronnie and Bugs. Gamesmanship and sharking go to Ronnie. Bad playing conditions I would have to favor Bugs. I already mentioned that he gave Jersey Red 9 to 7 on a bad table. Creativity, I make it a draw. Bugs with the banks, Ronnie with the gamebreaker shot, and Efren, magical solutions with the cue ball.
Stamina, stretched out over a long period, in either one long session, or maybe playing a session every day for a month, I would give Artie the nod. If he had enough time, he'd figure a way to beat them. Two out of three for all the marbles: definitely Ronnie and Bugs, with only Cornbread more dangerous in a big,big money short session.

Here are some personal examples I experienced.
I played Ronnie at the Billiard Cafe with Larry Schwartz staking him, for $200 a game, and playing me 10 to 8. I beat Ronnie the first eleven games in a row and that didnt finish him off. How he got Schwartz to keep going I'll never know. He ended up getting six games back before I packed him in. He played me 10 to 8 again later in Hot Springs Ar, and ran 10 and out six games in row. One game he owed one and had to run eleven. He might have kept going and set a record but I quit after game six.

I was playing Efren at the Billiard Cafe, I had him stuck 6 games and he was betting his own money. One of his backers came in and he let the guy back him. I couldnt believe it. The privilege of having a backer meant that he would have to win 12 games back to get even, since he was now only playing for 1/2 the bet. The backer turned him into a new man and he won back 4 games in a row. Of course I quit 8 games winner.

the Beard

Right is right, I must also mention that the only time I played Bugs when he was betting his own money, was when we played even down in Bensingers and I beat him out of $400 at $30 a game. A week later he returned with backers and broke me playing me 9 to 8 and 2 out of 3 breaks.
 
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Cal

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Opinion On Opinions/Was Efren The Best Ever

Opinion On Opinions/Was Efren The Best Ever

Billy are you saying that Bugs could "ONLY PLAY IN TOUGH NEIGHBORHOODS"????????
 

One Pocket Ghost

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wincardona said:
it's much more accurate once you experience something (anything) when giving your opinion on it.


Interesting, that's EXACTLY what I said when I started this thread, and I got slammed for it.....I don't think you'll get slammed though.....;)
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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SJDinPHX said:
You nailed it again Billy !
Number one we all no you change anything and everything changes. And the reason I picked those 3 games is because thats what the play at the DCC tournament. Banks One pocket and nineball. WE are not changing anything because that is the picture. And those are the games. If you want to change it to Snooker 3 cushion billiards and nineball. THier would be a different player. Harold Worst big time. But thats not what we are doing. And just because you grow up in that kind of inviorment that does not make you the best. And just because I was in lae vegas that does not mean I didnt no what was going on in pool. I seen Efren play in las vegas 4 or 5 times and I seen you play Efren at the crystal palace and you bet your own money. Or doesnt betting your own money afect a players game.Were he spoted you the 8 9 and the breack. And you were not playing your game. And it was not because of his good shooting. Because we no you can only win one game at a time giving you the breack. And Efren could not win just giving you the breack on a fast easy four and a half by nine were you could run 4 or 5 racks. And I think you played role out. Were shoot to hit the ball. Cue ball in hand he would have no chance beating you with the 8 and 9 and the breack. If you were in stroke. And played those rules but you didnt play cue ball in hand on a foul. And you always showed too much respect for his game instead of youre game. I think he hipmatised you. And as far as nine ball goes Buddy Hall was just as good and I liked the way Buddy Hall played better thats my opinion. And as far as the players going cross country the had very few good one pocket players. THe good players were gitting old and the young players like Gab Scott and Shannonwere kids. sO I would like to her from you who were those great players at that time that werent over the hill or young players just learning. The only ones I see are Cliff or maybe hopkins. But the field that I remember back then was very limited.THier wasant one great player in Chicago at that time was thier? But I would like to no who these great players were that he beat. It wasant Efrens faulte that the field was very week. And Ronnie Allen and BUgs spotted everyone the played to and a better class of players especialy in thier prime. And we make games according to what we see. Not after we play someone. And if we dont see someone play it is hard to handycap a game. We go by what we see thats how I make my games. You might do it by playing them. I make my games and handdy caps by what i see not playing them. What amazes me is that people no my stlye and how I played and dont no what I did. Efren is the one of the best at ececuting if not the best ever in life. And people think I play a squezze deffensive one pocket game. But that is not what I play. And I could have never beat those players playing only a squiezz defensive game. I ran lots of 8 and outs. And lots of players run 8 and out and cant telll you how the are going to run 8 and out. And I could not beat these players playing 3 and stop. I never played Efren and I never Played Ronnie. But I seen what the both did. And I like Ronnies game better then Efrens and Ronnie was more aggresive. And both players playing in thier prime Efren will make more mistakes. And I would have bet on Ronnie playing even both players in thier prime. And Efren shot worse percentage shots then Ronie. But Efren would execuite more of those shots then Ronnie. Because he had more skill and talant. But that those not make you win in the overall game. And Your stlye was perfect for Efren . Your Style played wright into what he liked. And different peoples style is good for one player. But no another. And when I seen you play Efren you did not play your game that you are capable of playing. And I hope you dont tell me you played your game. Because you will lose me and I am done with it. Ronnie and Bugs would have spotted all those players at that time too.And you have only played me one time. And you have only seen me play a few times. And you never seen me play anyone 5 or 6 games ahead. Were I could play y real game and not worry about someone quithing. And My win Percentage was 100% playing 5 and 6 games ahead. And you never seen none of those sessions. You were thier when I played Bugs once. And I dont even no if you watched the game. And you might have seen me play once in north shore. And Maybe once or 2 more. But you did not see me play once when I realy played a freeze out 5 or 6 games ahead. And Freddy never seen me play to much either. Because Freddy loved watching exciting one pocket games Like Ronnie Efren And Bugs. And Freddy didnt like watching me tourture people. Even though he new that was the real way to play to WIN. Winning is the name of the game. And betting your own money. Showes confedence and it showes you belive in yourself. And you can wright that down. Everyone has a hero. And I guess EFren is youres. But thats ok I liked a lot of players and if I would pick one it would be harold worst. And different players see different pictures. But very vew have answers and can explain it. And EFren is probable the best executionar in life. And thier will come some one thats better becuse the players keep gitting better and smarter. And when the new player steps in the old gets put aside. Everything is temparary. And if people dont understand what someone is doing when the are playing the will give thier opinion on what the see or think and that does not mean thats correct. And to realy be able to see whats going on. You have to get deeper into the game and analize it. I explain my shots and why. I dont her them other players explaining what the are doing or Why. Is it because the dont no what the are doing. Because when I ask the player to explain why the are doing what the are doing the look at me like am I crazy. And Efren was the pest player around in his time fram. NOt before and maybe not after. But he is great. And I understand to you he was the greatest and always will be. BUt remember everything changes. And you do have a good opinion and I respect that and you. But I do not think our opinions will change. And thats the way it is weather we excepte it or not. And its good that people have different opinions or it would be a duel boring world. Emagine if we all were the same and think the same. That would be brutel.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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lll said:
When you( Artie) were playing you were in the business of stopping things from happening, and you did that as good as any player. Reyes is in the business of making things happen, and he has been doing that much better than all the players, past and present. wincardona , that is an excellent observation and very eloquently stated.
Billy but it in a verynice way but I was in the buissness of winning. And nobody realy new what I was doing playing one pocket. And I would never wake anyone up. But Larry has a Idea what I did but it also took a certain control and execution. And it would be very hard for someone to do that not because the dont have the skill and the ability to do it.But I new how to do it and execute it. And that takes a special stoke and feel and you have to see that it can be done. Because lots of things do not look possable to other players. And the dont try to play that percise. And if you cannot see why the player shot the shot you will not understand it. and most players are not precise players. And just shoot without knowing why the shot it. Because the think its the wrght thing to do.
 

jay helfert

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I like most of the comments on this thread and pay particular attention to hwat Billy and Artie have to say. I did have the good fortune to see both Ronnie and Efren in their primes, many times. I played Ronnie a few times, getting 8-4 when I was at my best (which wasn't that good), and I've only practiced with Efren, although he offered me 11-5 at Hard Times. I wasn't ready to play at that time.

I tend to agree with Artie, Ronnie had more game. What I mean by that, is that he was even more creative than Efren, and knew some things about playing the pack that no one else knows to this day. He kicked multiple rails like a wizard and could always hit the right side of the ball he was kicking at. This may sound like sacrilege to some, but even Ronnie's one rail kicking at One Pocket was superior. I'm talking about making balls and knocking balls toward his hole.

Ronnie played great under pressure, in fact he was always the guy applying the pressure. And the bigger the bet, the better he played. And there's more. Ronnie was a master of combinations and billiards. He just saw these shots as good as anyone ever. He could also cut a ball super thin with accuracy when necessary, and he rarely ever missed his out ball or an important shot with the money on the line.

Nobody ever was as skilled as Ronnie at moving multiple balls to his hole on one shot, and kicking into the pack and moving balls his way. He often escaped traps with a two or three rail kicks into the pack, made a ball and ran out. Not Efren, not anyone ever ran out from the spots Ronnie was in. He ran out from nowhere, and did it a zillion times. He didn't need a shot to start his run, he "created" one. Once he had any kind of shot, he could run eight or ten and out, and more often than not, he did. No one ever ran ten and out more frequently or repeatedly. His run-outs always featured one or two "circus" shots, but HE MADE THEM!

Okay now for the comparison. Efren plays better "tight" position in One Pocket than anyone, and he can get behind balls up table, also better than anyone ever. Once he gets behind the first ball, it's all over. Ronnie would be banking all these balls. Efren's cue ball is the best ever, and he can make any shot seemingly with ease. A thin cut shot is a hanger for him. Once the balls are open and he's shooting, the rack is over.

One more big thing, Ronnie has a big edge in the conversation department. He could intimidate his opponent and knew just what to say to create doubt. Ronnie just never made careless mistakes or missed balls he shouldn't have. He won't say it, but I will. R.A. was a better One Pocket player than Efren IMO. Not much better, and he couldn't have spotted him anything. I just think he was more skilled overall. I think Efren would have become flustered if he played Ronnie at his peak. There would be many shots he wouldn't understand (and probably practice later), and Ronnie's run-outs would leave him shaking his head. Like, how did he get out from there?

And there's more. Ronnie always knew how to break the balls so he would have a shot, if anything went in. You would rarely (if ever) see him get tied up around the balls. He was always moving balls toward his hole, and not one at a time either. Two, three, four balls going his way shot after shot. And if one went in, that rack was over.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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jay helfert said:
I like most of the comments on this thread and pay particular attention to hwat Billy and Artie have to say. I did have the good fortune to see both Ronnie and Efren in their primes, many times. I played Ronnie a few times, getting 8-4 when I was at my best (which wasn't that good), and I've only practiced with Efren, although he offered me 11-5 at Hard Times. I wasn't ready to play at that time.

I tend to agree with Artie, Ronnie had more game. What I mean by that, is that he was even more creative than Efren, and knew some things about playing the pack that no one else knows to this day. He kicked multiple rails like a wizard and could always hit the right side of the ball he was kicking at. This may sound like sacrilege to some, but even Ronnie's one rail kicking at One Pocket was superior. I'm talking about making balls and knocking balls toward his hole.

Ronnie played great under pressure, in fact he was always the guy applying the pressure. And the bigger the bet, the better he played. And there's more. Ronnie was a master of combinations and billiards. He just saw these shots as good as anyone ever. He could also cut a ball super thin with accuracy when necessary, and he rarely ever missed his out ball or an important shot with the money on the line.

Nobody ever was as skilled as Ronnie at moving multiple balls to his hole on one shot, and kicking into the pack and moving balls his way. He often escaped traps with a two or three rail kicks into the pack, made a ball and ran out. Not Efren, not anyone ever ran out from the spots Ronnie was in. He ran out from nowhere, and did it a zillion times. He didn't need a shot to start his run, he "created" one. Once he had any kind of shot, he could run eight or ten and out, and more often than not, he did. No one ever ran ten and out more frequently or repeatedly. His run-outs always featured one or two "circus" shots, but HE MADE THEM!

Okay now for the comparison. Efren plays better "tight" position in One Pocket than anyone, and he can get behind balls up table, also better than anyone ever. Once he gets behind the first ball, it's all over. Ronnie would be banking all these balls. Efren's cue ball is the best ever, and he can make any shot seemingly with ease. A thin cut shot is a hanger for him. Once the balls are open and he's shooting, the rack is over.

One more big thing, Ronnie has a big edge in the conversation department. He could intimidate his opponent and knew just what to say to create doubt. Ronnie just never made careless mistakes or missed balls he shouldn't have. He won't say it, but I will. R.A. was a better One Pocket player than Efren IMO. Not much better, and he couldn't have spotted him anything. I just think he was more skilled overall. I think Efren would have become flustered if he played Ronnie at his peak. There would be many shots he wouldn't understand (and probably practice later), and Ronnie's run-outs would leave him shaking his head. Like, how did he get out from there?

And there's more. Ronnie always knew how to break the balls so he would have a shot, if anything went in. You would rarely (if ever) see him get tied up around the balls. He was always moving balls toward his hole, and not one at a time either. Two, three, four balls going his way shot after shot. And if one went in, that rack was over.
I think Ronie would have beaten Efren more times in his prime than Efren would have beat Ronnie And I seen Ronnie play and I seen lots of taps on Efren And Ronnie to me was the better player. Efren was the better shooter. BUt I like the better player. BUt that is my opinion just like yours. And if Taylor Ronnie Efren and BUgs played a round robin. All being in thier prime you would see a different winner. And To pick one player out of all four players it would all be a guess and our own personal favorite. I give a 4 way draw.
 

gulfportdoc

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jay helfert said:
Ronnie just never made careless mistakes or missed balls he shouldn't have. He won't say it, but I will. R.A. was a better One Pocket player than Efren IMO.
Jay, that's a pretty accurate description of the comparison between RA and Efren in one-pocket. I don't think many will disagree that Efren has far and away the best 1P tournament record in recent history. Of course when Ronnie was playing, there were few tournaments after the Jansco era, or while Ronnie was still in his prime. In the gambling game, it's not so clear. I'd give the nod to RA.

Ronnie himself said that although Efren would probably have beat him, Efren would have been too tired to spend the dough. On several occasions I saw Ronnie gamble at 1P in his prime, and I've never seen anything like it to this day. His creativity, his run-out prowess, his agressiveness, and his banter made up a package that was unbeatable, and also utterly fascinating.

I don't know how Efren plays for the big cash. The only time I've watched him gamble was on the tape of Scott Frost beating him in Arizona a few months back. But in my opinion Efren in his prime would have been dominated by Ronnie in his time during any 1P gambling contest.

I don't believe Efren in his prime had to face the fierce line-up of one-pocket talent that Ronnie did in his prime. In tournaments there was Cliff and a few other good players, but most of the older 1P talent had started to fade away.

Both RA and Efren brought major innovations to pool. RA and his imitators took one-pocket to a new level with aggressiveness and accuracy: run-out 1P, if you will (e.g., Chohan and Frost are good examples of his legacy). In their primes, both players brought a stunning freshness to the game.

Doc
 

DaddysVisa

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gulfportdoc said:
Jay, that's a pretty accurate description of the comparison between RA and Efren in one-pocket. I don't think many will disagree that Efren has far and away the best 1P tournament record in recent history. Of course when Ronnie was playing, there were few tournaments after the Jansco era, or while Ronnie was still in his prime. In the gambling game, it's not so clear. I'd give the nod to RA.

Ronnie himself said that although Efren would probably have beat him, Efren would have been too tired to spend the dough. On several occasions I saw Ronnie gamble at 1P in his prime, and I've never seen anything like it to this day. His creativity, his run-out prowess, his agressiveness, and his banter made up a package that was unbeatable, and also utterly fascinating.

I don't know how Efren plays for the big cash. The only time I've watched him gamble was on the tape of Scott Frost beating him in Arizona a few months back. But in my opinion Efren in his prime would have been dominated by Ronnie in his time during any 1P gambling contest.
I don't believe Efren in his prime had to face the fierce line-up of one-pocket talent that Ronnie did in his prime. In tournaments there was Cliff and a few other good players, but most of the older 1P talent had started to fade away.

Both RA and Efren brought major innovations to pool. RA and his imitators took one-pocket to a new level with aggressiveness and accuracy: run-out 1P, if you will (e.g., Chohan and Frost are good examples of his legacy). In their primes, both players brought a stunning freshness to the game.

Doc
"Dominated" is an awfully strong word to use. I find it hard to believe anyone could "dominate" Efren in his prime, not after he had a chance to learn the game. In your opinion could RA give Efren weight? I've seen pretty much every Efren DVD there is and he runs 8, 9, 10 balls consistently....and sometimes from nowhere. I've seen a half a dozen 8-and-outs he has run where the last shot their opponents made got applause. That's pretty strong.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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DaddysVisa said:
"Dominated" is an awfully strong word to use. I find it hard to believe anyone could "dominate" Efren in his prime, not after he had a chance to learn the game. In your opinion could RA give Efren weight? I've seen pretty much every Efren DVD there is and he runs 8, 9, 10 balls consistently....and sometimes from nowhere. I've seen a half a dozen 8-and-outs he has run where the last shot their opponents made got applause. That's pretty strong.
I can only sayone thing any off the 5 players could have won on any given day.Nobody could dominate playing 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7 and further more any ggod player could win in that kind of ession.But one player could dominate 6 games ahead because the best player will win. But in a short session anyone can win.Just like in nine ball a race to 3 or 5 any one can win. But if you play 8 games ahead its a different ballgame.
 

gbru

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Artie Bodendorfer said:
I can only sayone thing any off the 5 players could have won on any given day.Nobody could dominate playing 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7 and further more any ggod player could win in that kind of ession.But one player could dominate 6 games ahead because the best player will win. But in a short session anyone can win.Just like in nine ball a race to 3 or 5 any one can win. But if you play 8 games ahead its a different ballgame.
Artie

You keep saying nobody could dominate in a short race of 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7.............But Efren did!

I didn't see Ronnie and Bugs and the other old timers in their prime ( I know there were some great players), but I know they didn't dominate for 5 years in a row like Efren did in a tournament. They won a lot of games and matches but none of them took the top one pocket honors in a field of 400 players 5 years in a row in the # 1 event in the world.

You and Doc and Jay and others can contend that Efren didn't have the field of players that were around 30 years ago and you may be right. But there were some excellent players at Derby City that had to be defeated 5 years in a row to gain the top honors . And to repeat, Efren did it in very short races. You are a gambler and you know something about odds. The odds of that are astromomical! Wouldn't you say?

I truly wish I could have seen Ronnie play in his prime. Maybe some where there are some old movie films. He must have really been something the way everybody keeps talking about him.

george:confused:
 

Bobby

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gbru said:
Artie

You keep saying nobody could dominate in a short race of 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7.............But Efren did!

I didn't see Ronnie and Bugs and the other old timers in their prime ( I know there were some great players), but I know they didn't dominate for 5 years in a row like Efren did in a tournament. They won a lot of games and matches but none of them took the top one pocket honors in a field of 400 players 5 years in a row in the # 1 event in the world.

You and Doc and Jay and others can contend that Efren didn't have the field of players that were around 30 years ago and you may be right. But there were some excellent players at Derby City that had to be defeated 5 years in a row to gain the top honors . And to repeat, Efren did it in very short races. You are a gambler and you know something about odds. The odds of that are astromomical! Wouldn't you say?

I truly wish I could have seen Ronnie play in his prime. Maybe some where there are some old movie films. He must have really been something the way everybody keeps talking about him.

george:confused:



Sorry to nitpick, but Efren won the DCC one pocket division 4 years in a row not 5. He won from 2004 to 2007, although he does have 5 titles in all having won it in 1999 also.
 

DaddysVisa

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Bobby said:
Sorry to nitpick, but Efren won the DCC one pocket division 4 years in a row not 5. He won from 2004 to 2007, although he does have 5 titles in all having won it in 1999 also.
But I think he won it every year he entered it aside from 2008, where he lost both by a series of uncharacteristic missed shots by himself combined with maybe the greatest 8-and out ever caught on tape by Alex Pagulayan when Alex needed all 8 balls left on the table to win hill-hill. So my recollection is that he won it the first 5 times he entered the event, but someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong.
 

Bobby

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DaddysVisa said:
But I think he won it every year he entered it aside from 2008, where he lost both by a series of uncharacteristic missed shots by himself combined with maybe the greatest 8-and out ever caught on tape by Alex Pagulayan when Alex needed all 8 balls left on the table to win hill-hill. So my recollection is that he won it the first 5 times he entered the event, but someone will surely correct me if I'm wrong.


You may be right about him winning it the first 5 times he played in it, I don't recall if he played from 2000-2003.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

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gbru said:
Artie

You keep saying nobody could dominate in a short race of 3 out of 5 or 4 out of 7.............But Efren did!

I didn't see Ronnie and Bugs and the other old timers in their prime ( I know there were some great players), but I know they didn't dominate for 5 years in a row like Efren did in a tournament. They won a lot of games and matches but none of them took the top one pocket honors in a field of 400 players 5 years in a row in the # 1 event in the world.

You and Doc and Jay and others can contend that Efren didn't have the field of players that were around 30 years ago and you may be right. But there were some excellent players at Derby City that had to be defeated 5 years in a row to gain the top honors . And to repeat, Efren did it in very short races. You are a gambler and you know something about odds. The odds of that are astromomical! Wouldn't you say?

I truly wish I could have seen Ronnie play in his prime. Maybe some where there are some old movie films. He must have really been something the way everybody keeps talking about him.

george:confused:
Number one I am talking about Efren Ronnie Bugs Taylor Harold Worst Jersy Red Edie Kelly And Players like that Not the Players he played Ronnie Bugs Taylor Would have dominated that Field also. And if Efren would have had these players in his field he would not have dominated. Even Players like Shorty Squarrl Norma hitch cock and even Whimpy and Corn bread they copuld have all one. And thier would no have been one player dominating that field. And its great what efren did and it was a great accompishment. How meny Tournaments did he win that he got in at the Derby City? And He played in 60% or more tournaments then any of these players. And to show you what happines in tournaments does not mean the best player wins more tournaments. Shorty won more one pocket tournaments then any player in Johson City but he also played in the most tournaments. And Bugs never even played in a tournament in Johson City. That I no off. But Ronnie Bugs And Taylor were all atleast a ball better then Shorty. Shorty was a great player but you see the tournaments dont realy prove who the best player is. And the way you can tell when the gamble with each other 10 or 15 times. Then you can get a good Idea who was the best. And even then its hard because one player mite be a better game macker. But Even Shorty if he would have played Efren One POcket 3 cushion Billiards and snooker Shorty would be the Favoeite. And playing Nine ball one pocket and straight pool that would be closer. BUt The Botom line is The were all great. And like I said anyone of those players could win. And HArold Worst was the greatest all around player in life. PLaying Nine ball or One pocket # cushion Billiards and Snooker. But Efrens glory and fame would not have been as strong if he would have played against those players. And Tv and all the big tournaments gave him big exposure. And AS far as I am concerned and what I seen them both playing. Parica is in the same class as Efren. BUt he does not get the same exposure and he bets his own money. And I give him more respect for that then Efren. How would Efren have played wioth his own money I dont no. But I no it would have changed Maybe even a lot. BUt Parica is just as good as Efren. And nobody wants to talk about Parica beatting Efren more times playing nine ball then Efren beat him. And Nine ball is EFrens best game. And when the played each other banks or one pocket I dont no who won themost times. But Parica will bet his own money playing Efren if he has to. Will Efren bet his own money playing Parica if he has to. And thier is no dought that Parica has way more GAMBLE then EFren. BUt nobody wants to breack it down and tell it like it realy is. Because people want tyhier hero to be number one. And the older people will take Babe Ruth were todays people will take Barry bonds. But the ruiened his credability. And when he was in dead strock you could take your Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron and Micky Mantle and Megwier and Samie sosa. I never seen anyone . MOre intimdating . And such a eye and the control he had was in a class by himself. BUt the blaim it on drugs who kaowes what all thes oyher players took. The didnt even git tested. But barry Bonds is my choice at the plate needing a home run. And he walked all over the slugging percentage. And his percentage for beong on base.But people dont see the real picture and its all about how people build you up. But these are some of the greatest players in life. And remember anyone of those players could have won. And some of those players didnt play much in tournaments. And when the did a lot off them were out of thier prime. And thats my story and I am sticking to it. And the next generation can bring smarter and better player. BUt for today this is what ie ie and was.
 

Skin

Verified Member
Joined
Sep 11, 2008
Messages
2,149
Artie Bodendorfer said:
Number one I am talking about Efren Ronnie Bugs Taylor Harold Worst Jersy Red Edie Kelly And Players like that Not the Players he played Ronnie Bugs Taylor Would have dominated that Field also. And if Efren would have had these players in his field he would not have dominated. Even Players like Shorty Squarrl Norma hitch cock and even Whimpy and Corn bread they copuld have all one. And thier would no have been one player dominating that field. And its great what efren did and it was a great accompishment. How meny Tournaments did he win that he got in at the Derby City? And He played in 60% or more tournaments then any of these players. And to show you what happines in tournaments does not mean the best player wins more tournaments. Shorty won more one pocket tournaments then any player in Johson City but he also played in the most tournaments. And Bugs never even played in a tournament in Johson City. That I no off. But Ronnie Bugs And Taylor were all atleast a ball better then Shorty. Shorty was a great player but you see the tournaments dont realy prove who the best player is. And the way you can tell when the gamble with each other 10 or 15 times. Then you can get a good Idea who was the best. And even then its hard because one player mite be a better game macker. But Even Shorty if he would have played Efren One POcket 3 cushion Billiards and snooker Shorty would be the Favoeite. And playing Nine ball one pocket and straight pool that would be closer. BUt The Botom line is The were all great. And like I said anyone of those players could win. And HArold Worst was the greatest all around player in life. PLaying Nine ball or One pocket # cushion Billiards and Snooker. But Efrens glory and fame would not have been as strong if he would have played against those players. And Tv and all the big tournaments gave him big exposure. And AS far as I am concerned and what I seen them both playing. Parica is in the same class as Efren. BUt he does not get the same exposure and he bets his own money. And I give him more respect for that then Efren. How would Efren have played wioth his own money I dont no. But I no it would have changed Maybe even a lot. BUt Parica is just as good as Efren. And nobody wants to talk about Parica beatting Efren more times playing nine ball then Efren beat him. And Nine ball is EFrens best game. And when the played each other banks or one pocket I dont no who won themost times. But Parica will bet his own money playing Efren if he has to. Will Efren bet his own money playing Parica if he has to. And thier is no dought that Parica has way more GAMBLE then EFren. BUt nobody wants to breack it down and tell it like it realy is. Because people want tyhier hero to be number one. And the older people will take Babe Ruth were todays people will take Barry bonds. But the ruiened his credability. And when he was in dead strock you could take your Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron and Micky Mantle and Megwier and Samie sosa. I never seen anyone . MOre intimdating . And such a eye and the control he had was in a class by himself. BUt the blaim it on drugs who kaowes what all thes oyher players took. The didnt even git tested. But barry Bonds is my choice at the plate needing a home run. And he walked all over the slugging percentage. And his percentage for beong on base.But people dont see the real picture and its all about how people build you up. But these are some of the greatest players in life. And remember anyone of those players could have won. And some of those players didnt play much in tournaments. And when the did a lot off them were out of thier prime. And thats my story and I am sticking to it. And the next generation can bring smarter and better player. BUt for today this is what ie ie and was.
Sorry, Artie, but Roger Maris was the greatest home run hitter of all time. He broke the Babe's record when even his own team's fans were rooting against him and while his hair was falling out in clumps because of the stress. Nobody else has done that, but he did it like a true champion. And he was a real stand-up guy with all of the character you could have in life, unlike the others.

I would bet on him any day against any other, even Mantle and Mays, and that is what makes bets as you have pointed out. Different opinions and some will bet on their favorite no matter what.

Skin
 
Last edited:

Bobby

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
24
Artie Bodendorfer said:
Number one I am talking about Efren Ronnie Bugs Taylor Harold Worst Jersy Red Edie Kelly And Players like that Not the Players he played Ronnie Bugs Taylor Would have dominated that Field also. And if Efren would have had these players in his field he would not have dominated. Even Players like Shorty Squarrl Norma hitch cock and even Whimpy and Corn bread they copuld have all one. And thier would no have been one player dominating that field. And its great what efren did and it was a great accompishment. How meny Tournaments did he win that he got in at the Derby City? And He played in 60% or more tournaments then any of these players. And to show you what happines in tournaments does not mean the best player wins more tournaments. Shorty won more one pocket tournaments then any player in Johson City but he also played in the most tournaments. And Bugs never even played in a tournament in Johson City. That I no off. But Ronnie Bugs And Taylor were all atleast a ball better then Shorty. Shorty was a great player but you see the tournaments dont realy prove who the best player is. And the way you can tell when the gamble with each other 10 or 15 times. Then you can get a good Idea who was the best. And even then its hard because one player mite be a better game macker. But Even Shorty if he would have played Efren One POcket 3 cushion Billiards and snooker Shorty would be the Favoeite. And playing Nine ball one pocket and straight pool that would be closer. BUt The Botom line is The were all great. And like I said anyone of those players could win. And HArold Worst was the greatest all around player in life. PLaying Nine ball or One pocket # cushion Billiards and Snooker. But Efrens glory and fame would not have been as strong if he would have played against those players. And Tv and all the big tournaments gave him big exposure. And AS far as I am concerned and what I seen them both playing. Parica is in the same class as Efren. BUt he does not get the same exposure and he bets his own money. And I give him more respect for that then Efren. How would Efren have played wioth his own money I dont no. But I no it would have changed Maybe even a lot. BUt Parica is just as good as Efren. And nobody wants to talk about Parica beatting Efren more times playing nine ball then Efren beat him. And Nine ball is EFrens best game. And when the played each other banks or one pocket I dont no who won themost times. But Parica will bet his own money playing Efren if he has to. Will Efren bet his own money playing Parica if he has to. And thier is no dought that Parica has way more GAMBLE then EFren. BUt nobody wants to breack it down and tell it like it realy is. Because people want tyhier hero to be number one. And the older people will take Babe Ruth were todays people will take Barry bonds. But the ruiened his credability. And when he was in dead strock you could take your Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron and Micky Mantle and Megwier and Samie sosa. I never seen anyone . MOre intimdating . And such a eye and the control he had was in a class by himself. BUt the blaim it on drugs who kaowes what all thes oyher players took. The didnt even git tested. But barry Bonds is my choice at the plate needing a home run. And he walked all over the slugging percentage. And his percentage for beong on base.But people dont see the real picture and its all about how people build you up. But these are some of the greatest players in life. And remember anyone of those players could have won. And some of those players didnt play much in tournaments. And when the did a lot off them were out of thier prime. And thats my story and I am sticking to it. And the next generation can bring smarter and better player. BUt for today this is what ie ie and was.

Artie, how would Harold Worst and Luther Lassiter have matched up in an all-around contest? Say, 200 point game in straight pool, race to 9 in one pocket and a race to 20 in 9 ball? I've heard a couple of players say thet swear lassiter was the best all-around player but I've also heard that Harold Worst was fearsome, they say nobody wanted any part of him.
 

Artie Bodendorfer

Verified Member
Joined
Nov 18, 2005
Messages
4,271
Bobby said:
Artie, how would Harold Worst and Luther Lassiter have matched up in an all-around contest? Say, 200 point game in straight pool, race to 9 in one pocket and a race to 20 in 9 ball? I've heard a couple of players say thet swear lassiter was the best all-around player but I've also heard that Harold Worst was fearsome, they say nobody wanted any part of him.
At those 3 games I would take 6 to 5 and you could take your pick. But playing Nine ball 3 cuhion billiards and snooker Harold worst would be stealing. Nobody in the world would have a chace at those 3 games Harold Worst would be in a class by himself. And he would have robed Efren. Ans Harold Worest played Good enough nine ball to wi at all three games. He was my favorite. And he could shoot and even all those great players like Taylor Bugs and Ronnie the all feard him and for the cook degra he bet his owne money. Does any one want to top him with any of the Phillapins or Chinnese or English or Germans. Warold worst was all by himself number ONE And he was a intellagent classy man. And he won the all around at the star dust the last two years of his life. With Cancer. And he is the most talanted player I ever seen. World champion class player in all games. Even Straight pool And he would have been the best in one pocket. If you dont belive me ask that little rascal Ronnie. NO player ever got the respect that hard worst got from the top players. He could make the balls talk.Nobody is close to him. And if he would have been around in todays world. He would have been another Tiger Woods. And he would have played 7 or 8 games world class. And thier is no depating. Harold Worst was like Joe Louis or Suger Ray Robinson. And He had enough balls for 20 people. He is the best ever in life. AB.AB.
 

Bobby

Member
Joined
Jan 25, 2006
Messages
24
Artie Bodendorfer said:
At those 3 games I would take 6 to 5 and you could take your pick. But playing Nine ball 3 cuhion billiards and snooker Harold worst would be stealing. Nobody in the world would have a chace at those 3 games Harold Worst would be in a class by himself. And he would have robed Efren. Ans Harold Worest played Good enough nine ball to wi at all three games. He was my favorite. And he could shoot and even all those great players like Taylor Bugs and Ronnie the all feard him and for the cook degra he bet his owne money. Does any one want to top him with any of the Phillapins or Chinnese or English or Germans. Warold worst was all by himself number ONE And he was a intellagent classy man. And he won the all around at the star dust the last two years of his life. With Cancer. And he is the most talanted player I ever seen. World champion class player in all games. Even Straight pool And he would have been the best in one pocket. If you dont belive me ask that little rascal Ronnie. NO player ever got the respect that hard worst got from the top players. He could make the balls talk.Nobody is close to him. And if he would have been around in todays world. He would have been another Tiger Woods. And he would have played 7 or 8 games world class. And thier is no depating. Harold Worst was like Joe Louis or Suger Ray Robinson. And He had enough balls for 20 people. He is the best ever in life. AB.AB.


Oh I believe you Artie, you're the second pro player I've asked that question to, the other was Johnny Ervolino...he used to rave about Harold Worst. Johnny was pretty stingy when it came to praising other players, in fact besides Worst, he only praised Ralph Greenleaf and James Evans. But, he said it's hard to bet against Lassiter but if he played Worst I'd have to.
 
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