Look at this bank by Tony Chohan against Justin Hall

wincardona

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Who said anything about kicking it in?

Lou Figueroa
Lou, you mentioned that you agreed with Miller that he was trying to 'kick it out" as opposed to banking it. I interpreted kicking it out as kicking it in because to not try to kick it in and just kick it out is simply absurd. Kicking it out will create cue ball control problems and will result in not being able to move the cue ball from the area where the 1ball is positioned. Why would anyone want to just kick it out and sacrifice their position in terms of "ball position" and give up their edge there? I was actually giving you the benefit of the doubt when I said that you preferred kicking it in as opposed to banking it because kicking it out is ludicrous. I guess I was wrong and you prefer "kicking it out":rolleyes:

Dr. Bill
 

wincardona

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If Tony said he played the bank, then I've got to take him at his word. What confused me from the start was how hard he hit the shot. On the other hand he needed that speed in order for the CB to draw up table.

I'm puzzled by those who are maintaining that it was a kick, or a rail first shot. It looks to me like he hit the 1 ball first-- about 1/2 ball. At least no one is arguing that it didn't turn out great!:D

~Doc
Doc, he played rail first and not ball first because by playing rail first you will get the same result as you would playing ball first with the "object ball" but by playing rail first the cue ball will be much easier and predictable to control.

Dr. Bill
 

gulfportdoc

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Doc, he played rail first and not ball first because by playing rail first you will get the same result as you would playing ball first with the "object ball" but by playing rail first the cue ball will be much easier and predictable to control.

Dr. Bill
Bill, there was no kick. He hit ball first, the ball hit the foot rail, then the point, then back to his pocket. Look at posts #16 and #25. If you can't see it, you may have to phone Tony back....;)

~Doc
 

jrhendy

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Bill, there was no kick. He hit ball first, the ball hit the foot rail, then the point, then back to his pocket. Look at posts #16 and #25. If you can't see it, you may have to phone Tony back....;)

~Doc
I showed the clip to a long time SAC guy who said he watched Tony practice those goofy shots for hours years ago. That shot was just one of them.
 

NH Steve

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Any way you slice it, it was an amazing shot. I think it is the camera angle that makes it look like a masse, whereas in actuality it is just a little jump caused by jacking up off the rail, and the jump was incidental to the shot. You can see the cue ball bounce a little after the initial jump. It's a measles ball, and you can see it did not have the strong sidespin characterized by a masse -- just pretty much straight draw as I saw it.
 

wincardona

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For those who may be concerned I talked to Tony about the shot again, and it was a very honest conversation for any doubters. I asked him to describe to me how he hit the shot and how he felt about both the cue ball and ob without leading him in any direction. He said he shot it into the rail, I then countered with "How did you shoot it into the rail" He said what do you mean? I answered with "Did you hit ball first or rail first?" He said ..ball first. I apologize to you all I felt he hit rail first.:eek: Especially to you Doc.:D I then asked him if he felt at any time that the kiss was there, and also if he was confident with the ob. He answered and said that there is no kiss and he was confident about the ob as well. Of course we are talking about one of the top four players in the world but none the less the option was there if you feel good about the shot.:D Which was evidenced.

The conversation took another turn and I asked him about the 1ball kick option, he replied by hesitating and then said "what option" I know he heard me but maybe he didn't remember how viable of an option it is, or maybe it isn't.I then repeated myself and again said "kicking the 1ball" he said that it wasn't an option he liked because he couldn't hit deeply enough to control the cue ball. He said that it would stay down table and possibly where the 1ball is positioned. I thanked him for his time and wished him luck in his one pocket match coming up, he's going to give Dean Adkins the break in Det. soon.

That's my report from the man who shot the shot and if there were any other options he liked including the kick on the 1ball.

Dr. Bill
Good night and good luck.
 
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Billy Jackets

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Maybe so Big John.And he has the savvy to just walk around the table real fast like he played it.

That little part is worth more than most people understand..imo John B.
'That was what made me think he fluked it!. He jetted toward the next shot.
A pool players "tell".
 

LSJohn

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he's going to give Dean Adkins the break in Det. soon.

Dr. Bill
Is his name actually Dean? I've only heard him called Dee.

He came to a bar table 9 ball tournament I had a player in.... maybe 45-50 players... was in about '97 or '98. Brought Lyle Gay with him... only problem was, we didn't know what Lyle looked like and he said his name was Paul Gomez or something... went for the minimum in the Calcutta.

Finish was: Dee, Lyle (or vice versa), my pony. %#$#& $%$#!

BTW, I like Tony in that match... and I've got more than one reason. :)
 

Wayne

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For those who may be concerned I talked to Tony about the shot again, and it was a very honest conversation for any doubters. I asked him to describe to me how he hit the shot and how he felt about both the cue ball and ob without leading him in any direction. He said he shot it into the rail, I then countered with "How did you shoot it into the rail" He said what do you mean? I answered with "Did you hit ball first or rail first?" He said ..ball first. I apologize to you all I felt he hit rail first.:eek: Especially to you Doc.:D I then asked him if he felt at any time that the kiss was there, and also if he was confident with the ob. He answered and said that there is no kiss and he was confident about the ob as well. Of course we are talking about one of the top four players in the world but none the less the option was there if you feel good about the shot.:D Which was evidenced.

The conversation took another turn and I asked him about the 1ball kick option, he replied by hesitating and then said "what option" I know he heard me but maybe he didn't remember how viable of an option it is, or maybe it isn't.I then repeated myself and again said "kicking the 1ball" he said that it wasn't an option he liked because he couldn't hit deeply enough to control the cue ball. He said that it would stay down table and possibly where the 1ball is positioned. I thanked him for his time and wished him luck in his one pocket match coming up, he's going to give Dean Adkins the break in Det. soon.

That's my report from the man who shot the shot and if there were any other options he liked including the kick on the 1ball.



Dr. Bill
Good night and good luck.
I set it up and shot it again for anyone who doubts what Tony did. I did it jacked up like Tony this time.

I set up the camera angle so you can clearly see what Tony did.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEGh_pZgBe0

There is a way to measure exactly how much ball you need to hit to go off the rail and off the point.

Tony's execution was incredible.

Lou has me on ignore so someone will have to respond to this post for him to see it and then maybe he will STFU. Also tell him "THERE WAS NO MASSE".

Of course he never used any masse, that would have been nutty from where he was positioned.
 
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One Pocket Ghost

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Is his name actually Dean? I've only heard him called Dee.

He came to a bar table 9 ball tournament I had a player in.... maybe 45-50 players... was in about '97 or '98. Brought Lyle Gay with him... only problem was, we didn't know what Lyle looked like and he said his name was Paul Gomez or something... went for the minimum in the Calcutta.

Finish was: Dee, Lyle (or vice versa), my pony. %#$#& $%$#!

BTW, I like Tony in that match... and I've got more than one reason. :)
That would be Leil Gay......Lyle would be either Lovett or Alzado...:heh

PS, Don't mean to brag..:sorry :D...but...I won against both Leil and Dee Adkins when I drew them at the DCC many years ago......but then I also drew Dee at the big Galveston tournament several years ago and he won that one - Joey Gray gave me my second loss in that tournament...:frus

PPS, I also like Tony in that game.
- Ghost
 
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cincy_kid

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Is his name actually Dean? I've only heard him called Dee.

He came to a bar table 9 ball tournament I had a player in.... maybe 45-50 players... was in about '97 or '98. Brought Lyle Gay with him... only problem was, we didn't know what Lyle looked like and he said his name was Paul Gomez or something... went for the minimum in the Calcutta.

Finish was: Dee, Lyle (or vice versa), my pony. %#$#& $%$#!

BTW, I like Tony in that match... and I've got more than one reason. :)
Yes it is Dee :)

If I recall correctly, he was the one who started bringing the young Cory Deuel around to all of the pool rooms.

Also to hear Leil's name is a blast from the past for me. The one time I did pretty well in a one pocket tournament back when I was playing every day, we drove up to the Shamrock Shootout (in Akron, OH) for their annual 1p tourney. It was me, Gary Spaeth and Sherm. I played pretty good that day and ended up in the finals of the winners bracket vs Gary and he knocked me to the losers bracket where Leil Gay had ran through to play me for the hot seat match. He knocked me off that day so I had to settle for 3rd and then Gary beat Leil to take the win. Some good times for sure!

PS - I have not seen Tony play in person but I have watched Dee on multiple occasions and although he plays awful sporty, and with no disrespect to him, I think I would have to bet on Tony in that match.
 

lfigueroa

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Every thing you say is true, and your command of the English language is daunting in a uncontestable way.:eek: However, it all doesn't mean a thing if the shot isn't possible. You would agree to that, right? I know for a certainty that the kick on the 1ball isn't close to being an option the way the balls are laying. The 1ball sits 1/2 diamond from the pocket on the rail, the cue ball is positioned 1/2" from both the bottom and side cushion laying parallel to the point of the pocket. To masse around the 1ball and hit low on the side rail isn't possible unless you are a trick shot specialist, and there's not too many of them playing one pocket. There just isn't enough time for the cue ball to bend once it reaches the 1ball. When I brought up the option to Tony his response was.."How would I do that" I guess he should ask the players that think it's possible.:sorry I sure don't. I went to the table and positioned the balls exactly like their positioned in my description above. I shot the shot three times and that was enough for me to say with certainty that it's not an option. The common result was kicking the 1ball toward the stack area and the cue ball taking it's place near the rail.

Finally, if what I say is true I have two request I would like from you. (1) I want you to answer the question on whether you still think the kick is a viable option.:D (2) I would like an apology from you for "Lou-izing me." Obviously not if you feel it's still an option, regardless if what I say is true.:) Oh, by the way if what I say is not true to the facts then i'll be glad to return to you what I asked from you.:D DEAL??

Dr. Bill

Yesterday, after watching the video numerous times, the shot was setup on a Diamond table. The shooter (a very straight shooter and 1pocket player) never got the bank close after a dozen tries. He kicked the ball out successfully on the first attempt. One of the best 1pocket players in the Midwest was watching and he just laughed when I told him you thought the bank was the right shot.

So yes, the kick is a more than viable option.

Lou Figueroa
 

John Brumback

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His cue tip stabbed into the rail before contacting the cue ball and bounced all over the place. I wonder if that could have messed up his accuracy any. and or maybe caused him to miss hit it the cue ball slightly. Maybe not,just something I noticed when I just now went back and watched it a few more times.

Did anyone notice that little part of his shot? If you didn't you need to go back and look real close. Watch his tip and shaft right before contact. John B.
 

lll

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His cue tip stabbed into the rail before contacting the cue ball and bounced all over the place. I wonder if that could have messed up his accuracy any. and or maybe caused him to miss hit it the cue ball slightly. Maybe not,just something I noticed when I just now went back and watched it a few more times.

Did anyone notice that little part of his shot? If you didn't you need to go back and look real close. Watch his tip and shaft right before contact. John B.
i didnt pick up on that when i watched the video
now that you point that out i can see it
for my poor eyesight i cant tell that he hit the rail first or it was just because he was hitting down
 

cincy_kid

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For those who may be concerned I talked to Tony about the shot again, and it was a very honest conversation for any doubters. I asked him to describe to me how he hit the shot and how he felt about both the cue ball and ob without leading him in any direction. He said he shot it into the rail, I then countered with "How did you shoot it into the rail" He said what do you mean? I answered with "Did you hit ball first or rail first?" He said ..ball first. I apologize to you all I felt he hit rail first.:eek: Especially to you Doc.:D I then asked him if he felt at any time that the kiss was there, and also if he was confident with the ob. He answered and said that there is no kiss and he was confident about the ob as well. Of course we are talking about one of the top four players in the world but none the less the option was there if you feel good about the shot.:D Which was evidenced.

The conversation took another turn and I asked him about the 1ball kick option, he replied by hesitating and then said "what option" I know he heard me but maybe he didn't remember how viable of an option it is, or maybe it isn't.I then repeated myself and again said "kicking the 1ball" he said that it wasn't an option he liked because he couldn't hit deeply enough to control the cue ball. He said that it would stay down table and possibly where the 1ball is positioned. I thanked him for his time and wished him luck in his one pocket match coming up, he's going to give Dean Adkins the break in Det. soon.

That's my report from the man who shot the shot and if there were any other options he liked including the kick on the 1ball.

Dr. Bill
Good night and good luck.
If he and Dee don't match up before the derby, I wonder if they would play there, I would love to see it. If not maybe someone will stream it from Det.

Another match up I am looking forward to seeing if it's still on is I heard that Tony was going to play Shannon Murphy. Tony was going to give up 9-8 playing one pocket and Shannon was going to give up 9-8 playing banks. No idea if it's still going to happen but I heard it may be. This is another I would love to see!
 

Tom Wirth

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Lou, Dr. Bill does not need me or anyone else to defend him either here or most anywhere else he happens to go, but I can't help but throw my hat in the ring on your unfounded "Has to be right all the time" comment.

I am aware of a few occasions when Dr. Bill has been convinced his solution was not the best, and without hesitation he has owned up to his mistakes, always in an honorable fashion, each and every time.

I think you are being unfair in your criticism, but I do understand why you might feel as you do. He is rarely wrong in his assessment of One Pocket situations. Is this an opinion? Yes, of course, but it is an opinion that is shared by many throughout the pool community.

That might be one reason he has been called on with such frequency, over so many years, to commentate most of the big matches we see on Accu-Stats dvds.

Tom
 

Skin

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His cue tip stabbed into the rail before contacting the cue ball and bounced all over the place. I wonder if that could have messed up his accuracy any. and or maybe caused him to miss hit it the cue ball slightly. Maybe not,just something I noticed when I just now went back and watched it a few more times.

Did anyone notice that little part of his shot? If you didn't you need to go back and look real close. Watch his tip and shaft right before contact. John B.
How did the cb jump if that happened?
 
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